I've recently started looking at Porsche as an option for my second car (next 2-3 months), and am unable to fathom the lineup and reliability issues of each.

Could anyone make any suggestions on:
How much I should spend? I have a 6-speed E90 (335xi sedan) right now and I want something cheap, reliable, safe and fun to drive. As much as I love sticks, an automatic would be an added advantage to convince the wifey.

What line should I be looking at? I'm waiting for the new boxster, but I also realize that there's a bunch of used 911s out there. Would it make sense to get a really cheap 911? Would i get a driveable one for $10,000 without having to go to the shop every 2 months? How about an old cayman? How many miles?

I know I'm being very vague (new boxster = 70K to 10K for used), but I'm pretty new to this brand, so if you have a thread/article/wiki you suggest I should go to first you're most welcome to suggest it to me.

Thanks for your help!

 

Wow that's quite a range. Well, I will tell you that if you are used to your 3 series and BMW's creature comforts (like I was coming from my 545), if you are looking at 911's you will be most satisfied with the 997.1 or 997.2. I definitely wanted Bluetooth, Nav, etc in my car - and I was happy with the upgrade of the PCM 3.0 that came starting in the 2009 MY. So, with your budget, if you're looking at used 997.2, you're looking at the 60K range depending on options and whether you go C2/C4 or C2S/C4S. I don't think you'll find anything REALLY reliable for $10000. That's used previous generation Boxster range.

 

We had an "07 E92 and, although it was a good car, we sold it and got our first P car: a 4S. Now, all I can say is I wish I had gotten one sooner!

My .02, dump the Bimmer and you'll never look back.

 

I would check out the for sale section on this forum...type in 10K or the price you're willing to spend and see what comes up. Also try AutoTrader using your parameters and see what pops up...

Once you see what type of Porsche can be purchased for 10k or the budget you set then you may want to check out the thread that matches that model on here for lots of Q&A.

I know you desire more information but most will need more info from you. I'd start with a more firm price range and work from there.

Good luck!

 

$10,000 for a used Porsche! What kind of used 3 series do you get for that money.

You get what you pay for!

 

The lowest price on a decent 911 that i have ever seen is about 16k for a 1984 SC with 67k miles.

 

The last three adjectives certainly fit almost any Porsche sports car, and I've been told that even the sports SUV, the Cayenne, is fun to drive. The first word is the tricky one. Cheap is relative. I know a guy who just bought a new 911, the GT2 RS variant. He was concerned it would just be "another parts bin exercise" so when they delivered it in person along with a day of Porsche professional driving instruction, the chief engineer signed it for him on the inside of the hood with a joke about that. He paid about a quarter million, but apparently the cheap price had him worried... If you're in the market for cars like the McLaren and the Veyron, a basic $100k buy sounds cheap and a quarter mil still makes you worry they won't be able to impress you.

On the other hand, if you'd been driving any used Chevrolet except maybe a Corvette, and you asked for 'cheap' then the answer would be "you can't afford anything from Porsche."

Things are relative.

You weren't specific, but assuming you're willing to spend something between ten and fifteen thousand for a used sports car, then you can find a Porsche that will delight and amuse you for years. That does assume you want it as a second car, because as someone said you won't find a Porsche with all the current tricks and geegaws of luxury touring cars for that price. In fact, you won't find a $20k Porsche with the "technology package" they provide on a $20k Honda. In the first place, speaking as a computer engineer, electronics that cost a million one decade are selling in the mall for teenagers in twenty years, and that will be the age difference between a Porsche and a Honda of the same price. In the second place, Japanese culture adores gadgets and stuffs them into cars as soon as possible. European car culture at least is very nearly the exact opposite. Traditionally, gadgets belong in penny arcades, not cars.

For many years, Porsche installed radios only because their dealers insisted some people wanted one. "God knows why, Herr Pieche, but they keep asking." I'm not sure the engineers ever did understand why, but they gave in to that. But only reluctantly, and only recently did they begin putting any real effort on gadgets. Lest you think I'm exaggerating, it was my year model, 2009, that they finally added a glove box. Honest. I think they had a little open shelf there until the airbag requirement ate up the space for the next couple of decades. They only just bothered recently to rearrange things for such decadent luxury as a glove box in a sports car.

Some British sports cars traditionally left out trinkets because it just wasn't pukka to worry about such things when you were supposed to be spending a day at sport. 'Sport' as in "playing with your car." In my day for British cars, even the headlights were suspect. We joked that a proper gentleman caught out after dark sent "his man" to walk ahead and wave a lantern. (I bought a lantern. Cindy wouldn't consider it.)

Drivers of Italian sports cars didn't use such things because even when the factory put them on, they fell off before they reached the dealers. Except the ones that caught fire. Best to buy one without unnecessary widgets and hope the sparkplugs worked.

Germans and Porsche in particular are different. They build such things when they must, but when they do, it works. Everything they build seems hell for stout (if you'll excuse a technical expression from an engineer in a different field). Mind you, it may not work the way an American expects. My nav system keeps thinking that if I'm lost so bad that I'm asking a computer where to go, any direction toward civilization surely will be considered an improvement. So it keeps trying to send me across the desert following some trail left over from the days of twenty-mule teams. But it works! Reliably. Just the same every time. Never mind. I have a cell phone with a satellite map service when it's gadgetry I want. A Japanese phone. With American software. And a German car for the wild joy of driving.

The engineers at Porsche just don't seem to share our view of one car for everything. At least not one sports car for everything. A current commercial shows recent model Porsches doing various things: picking up building supplies, picking up kids from school, and cosseting a tired executive on a Friday night getaway. Betcha dollar that was conceived by dealers here in the United States. Not the designers at Zuffenhausen.

I love my Porsche, but if I wanted a car purpose-designed for all those other roles I'd buy an Acura sedan. A Porsche is "reliable, safe, and fun to drive" and boy is it good at those things. Especially the fun part.. And it can do everything Cindy and I ask of it, but we trained on the MG, so essentially we could do the shopping in anything from a bicycle upward if our legs weren't so old.

Don't think of a Porsche as a do-anything runabout. Maybe the Cayenne, but I refer now to the sports cars. Think of a Porsche sports car as that second car you take for the simple joy of driving somewhere. Or just for the joy of driving. Period. That is what Porsche is about.

Your best way to get an overview of the models is to buy Panorama magazine from the Porsche Club of America. They'be been running a series about how to buy a used Porsche this last few months. They review the history of every model, discuss the trade-offs in the different years, and suggest what to look for, along with price ranges. I think you can read some of these articles on line:

http://pca.org/Panorama/HowToBuyAnEn...elPorsche.aspx

I say 'think' because you may have to be a member of the Porsche Club of America to access that part of their website. I hope not. It makes more sense to have those articles available to people who do not yet own a Porsche, but people who write for websites and people who program them do not always communicate among themselves as well as we could wish. Try it. If it doesn't work for you, go to the home page, find the "contact us" button and ask them what issues of Panorama you need to buy from their back list. It will be cheap. If you want book recommendations, we can do that too, but I'd start with the articles.

The sort of Porsche many of my friends own are in the price range you're considering. The mid-life 911 years, the 914 or the 944 are all very good sports cars. A not-too-old 986 Boxster is a little above your price range, but great if you can stretch to that price. Not necessary though. One friend drives a 1984 911 S Targa in the High Desert north of Mojave. (Well... not in the desert. I means he lives near China Lake and drives on roads that cross the desert, and to hell with what my nav system would suggest for him.) On a race track at what we call "driver education" days, Dave can outrun another friend who drives a 2002 Carrera. Twenty years apart and both of them having a glorious time. Dave just knows how to get more out of his 911 than does Gino. But Gino is out there to learn so he's having a grand time also.

Porsches always have been among the best sports cars in the world and even one forty years old is a joy on a winding road. The trick is finding one that old that has been cared for properly. Dave's Targa is one, but he isn't offering it right now.

For finding good cars, I heartily recommend visiting your local region of the Porsche Club of America. Most regions have breakfast meetings just to get together and talk cars and meet new owners or would-be owners. I'm not sure offhand who to call for your area, but we have members of this forum in your part of California and if none of them speaks up, just ask the folks at PCA national to give you a number for your local club.

Recent Porsche models can be found lots of places, and if you were looking as high as $30k or even $25k, I could suggest models you'd find at local dealers. I did a search just now and did find one 911 for $25,000 at an Audi dealer in Stevens Point. It's a 1999 and has... I think they said 72k miles, which is quite reasonable. Our 1999 NSX had 140k miles when we bought this 2009 Carrera. Well-built cars like these last that long and much more when cared for properly. I knew a guy with an NSX that had 240k miles. He was running Tail of the Dragon, a famous sports car canyon road in the Southeast. The trick is finding the ones that have been cared for properly. Get in touch with local Porsche people.

I used the phrase "mid-life 911" back there. They built the first ones in the year Cindy and I married. That was 1962, so you're talking about a long run -- for a model of car anyway. The models like Dave's, built in the eighties, were already a very mature design, in all the good ways. So if you find an example respected by the local Porsche people, don't hesitate to buy it for the right price -- and you will find several choices in your price range if I inferred it correctly.

As those articles will tell you though, remember the target market for the model you choose when estimating cost of ownership. The original target market. The 924, 914 and 944 models were intended to be affordable examples of an exotic marque. Garage maintenance if you like, and lots of shops will do the work for reasonable prices. On the other hand, the 928, the 911S, or any Turbo were all models designed for people that expected to be parking next to Ferraris and Aston Martins in Casino Square in Monaco. If you lunch the engine on one of those, it will be expensive to replace. Maybe not as expensive as a current one, but in the same range of shock value.

The solution of course is not to destroy the engine. That works once you already own a good one, but you must be sure you don't buy one from some place unknown with an engine that already has a fatal disease. That's why I suggest working through contacts you make in the Porsche Club if you want to buy models that old.

The Porsche family, and the engineering firm they founded, have been building fine sports cars for sixty years plus. You can find one you can afford, and any of them are a delight to drive.

Hope all this helps,

Gary

 

I found 162 cars listed on Auto Trader for 12K or less (1995- present) . Most of them are high mileage Boxsters . None were 997 cars.

I've met a few people in my life who tried to do what hope to do . They buy an old high end car and in most cases the outcome is a money pit of repairs . In the rare exception the buyer is himself a technician and the car becomes a hobby .

In my opinion the more money one puts down to buy the car the better his chances are at getting a newer car with a warranty . If you want the ability to shift manually but also have the automatic capability for yoir wife in a car that both of you can ernjoy every day why not take the 335Xi plus 20K and buy a new base Boxter or Cayman and enter into a Porsche for what the car can really offer ?

Good luck

 

First of all, I suggest you read simsgw's post. And then read it again. That was an enjoyable and informative post.

Next, suggest you jump onto Amazon and buy a couple of books on Porsche. I have a copy of Zimmermann's buying guide and it is outstanding. You will quickly figure out what you should start perusing.

Finally, the internet was made and designed for used car research. You didn't know that was darpa's original goal? But seriously, you can go through autotrader, cars and ebaymotors and gain a wealth of information ...models, years, asking prices, etc.

Enjoy the process!

 

Counter to some suggestions here I think you could easily get into a great/fantastic Porsche for not very much money..... As others have said (Simsgw's post is awesome), just about any Porsche will put a smile on your face, reliably for years. GTPorsche, 911World, and Excellence all have written articles on the merits and ownership of a used Boxster or 996. Many of the staff own them and its fun reading about their ownership experiences. All three of the mentioned mags are in agreement that the early Boxsters and the 996 get a bad wrap and in reality are fabulous reliable machines.

To get down into the details... If you can stretch your budget to 20K, you could feasibly get into a later 996.1 or early 996.2 Carrera. Both are fantastic cars (remember the opening scene in gone in 60 seconds). I actually plan on getting into one of these cars in the relatively near future to use as a Daily. The trick is to buy one that has been properly cared for. Best to look for an enthusiast owned car. A car that has been over cared for, if you get my drift. Maintenance records and a proper PPI go a long way to ensuring your used Porsche will be putting smiles on your face for many years.

If we are talking older Boxsters and 996's you might try to find one that has already had its engine replaced. This sounds counter intuitive but generally Porsche will exchange an engine with the most updated internals. Meaning, a 996 with a Porsche exchanged engine will most likely have the most updated block and IMS bearing... meaning the engine is as reliable as any late M96 engine (read 997.1). This is not to say that the early 996 engines were not reliable and most likely, if the used car is beyond 30K miles, then its out of the woods.

I have seen many old 996's and Boxsters with 100K miles racing every weekend. Awesome cars and cheap.

Bottom line 5k-15k means used Boxster
15k-20k means used 996. Several fabulous examples on Autotrader for over 20K but I would consider that a starting off point

Jason

 

Forgive me for not rising up to cross the room and check this. Panorama does have such articles, but the really comprehensive series I meant is the one by Bruce Anderson in Excellence Magazine. Go to http://www.excellence-mag.com/ and you'll find links to an on-line version on the left margin. They sell back issues as well, so you can get the original print version.

Gary

 

And further to simsgw's point:
Excellence magazine has excellent articles on used Porsches, which ones to go for, which ones to avoid, what the price points are for poor/fair/excellent condition etc.

They also do regular articles along the lines of 'Buying a $12,000 Porsche', where they list all the different model/years combinations that fall into that price point, again with advice on what to look for and what to avoid.

10K to 70K is a very broad bracket, but I think you will be spoilt for choice in the 15K to 25K bracket, with Boxters towards the low end and 996 at the top end.

 

[quote=viv-1;3182742]I've recently started looking at Porsche as an option for my second car (next 2-3 months), and am unable to fathom the lineup and reliability issues of each.

Could anyone make any suggestions on:
How much I should spend?

Every Porsche article I have ever read concerning used Porsche's ends with buy the newest model year you can afford.

I want something cheap, reliable, safe and fun to drive.

I am not aware of any automobile that fits all of those parameters.

As for reliability issues, I have owned 2 water cooled Porsches from new over the last 10 years, a '01 Boxster ( 30 K + miles ) and my current '07 997 C4S cab (15 K + miles ). Both cars were as reliable as any cars I have ever owned. Neither suffered any of the issues commonly reported on these sites. I thoroughly enjoyed my Boxster and continue to enjoy my 997. But, I bought them both as new cars and maintained them by the book.

IMHO buying a used Porsche isn't like buying a used Toyota.

I would suggest you study the many posts on enthusiast sites like this one and maybe join or visit a local Porsche club gathering and talk to some of the members. You will be amazed at how willing these folks will be to educate you on the brand and you'll have a lot of fun doing it.

 

Wowee! I'm blown away by this forum! Thanks for all the replies, guys (with special thanks to Gary for his long, patient and informative reply).

I'm still trudging through all the information here (and checking out http://www.excellence-mag.com/back-issues trying to decide which ones to order), but to give more info rather than have you guys make wild assumptions, here's some points:
- I currently own a 2008 335 that I bought new (ED) and intend to run until its doors fall off. So this will be my 2nd car. Which means I don't care much for practicality.
- Since my wife will be driving this 2nd car just as much as I will - or even more - it will be an auto (the battle for manual has been lost). Oh well, at least the 335 is a 6-speed.
- For the same reason, I want it to have ABS and airbags at the very least. I guess side airbags came in after '98 or so, so that's probably going to be a lot harder to get. That's probably okay.
- Following some suggestions, I was looking at the 944. I found a couple of pretty cool manuals around but no autos. I'm guessing the manual lasts longer? Besides, wiki tells me the auto was 3-speed, and that can't be very fuel efficient, can it? (I know I'm asking for everything from just one car, but hey I'm compromising on practicality :P). Is 24mpg+ hwy a practical target?
- I'm looking at this 2nd car as a temporary hold until I can afford a new boxster/911. My definition of reliability is that I want it to not fall apart in the next 3 years.
- I guess I'll fix my price point to a max of $15K. If I don't find anything, I'll reconsider that.

Hope that makes things less vague. I'll look up autoblog/cars.com/magazines/local porsche club and come back with some more questions

 

viv-1,
Based on the above requirements (automatic, reliability, safety features, $15K), I would strongly recommend looking for a Boxster S tiptronic.
It ticks all the boxes and will be fun for the both of you.

I know people who bought a used Boxster as a beater, hoping the engine would break so they could shoe-horn something big and dangerous in its place.
40,000 miles later, it is still humming along without a care.

Anything else at that price point, will be older and more delicate in terms of reliability.

As an example, I saw a 2000 Boxster S- Tip with 63K miles for $14,995 (asking).

My $.02