Discount on 2011 C2S?
#4
07-18-2011, 10:51 PM
The Auto Gallery offered me a 2011 C2 for $80K with an MSRP of $93K which is a 14% discount. They said that this was there invoice cost. They did me wrong on a deal and were trying to make it right. More to come on this if they do not make it right.
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#8
07-20-2011, 01:26 AM
More than 20% was the norm. I saw some in the 30% range (but those were rare). But remember the world was coming to an end then 
.
I think you can still do better than 17% on the 2011s. A quick look at the inventory trends suggests that inventory has been growing over the past month. Currently, there are more than 1,340 2011 and 2012 on lots, which is more than 2 months' worth of inventory -- that at a point when the sweet spot of summer buying frenzy has already passed and the is 991 being announced within 6 weeks. I saw a previously titled (technically used but as good as new new from my perspective) 125k GTS with 1,000 miles on the odo go for 94K over the weekend.
.I think you can still do better than 17% on the 2011s. A quick look at the inventory trends suggests that inventory has been growing over the past month. Currently, there are more than 1,340 2011 and 2012 on lots, which is more than 2 months' worth of inventory -- that at a point when the sweet spot of summer buying frenzy has already passed and the is 991 being announced within 6 weeks. I saw a previously titled (technically used but as good as new new from my perspective) 125k GTS with 1,000 miles on the odo go for 94K over the weekend.
#9
07-20-2011, 01:18 PM
I don't think getting 17% is anywhere near realistic. If it is I would LOVE to know where. I've had my wallet on the table at two different dealerships and the closest I have gotten is around 8% off of 2011's.
I was also told that dealerships pay 10% less than msrp.
I was also told that dealerships pay 10% less than msrp.
More than 20% was the norm. I saw some in the 30% range (but those were rare). But remember the world was coming to an end then .
I think you can still do better than 17% on the 2011s. A quick look at the inventory trends suggests that inventory has been growing over the past month. Currently, there are more than 1,340 2011 and 2012 on lots, which is more than 2 months' worth of inventory -- that at a point when the sweet spot of summer buying frenzy has already passed and the is 991 being announced within 6 weeks. I saw a previously titled (technically used but as good as new new from my perspective) 125k GTS with 1,000 miles on the odo go for 94K over the weekend.
.I think you can still do better than 17% on the 2011s. A quick look at the inventory trends suggests that inventory has been growing over the past month. Currently, there are more than 1,340 2011 and 2012 on lots, which is more than 2 months' worth of inventory -- that at a point when the sweet spot of summer buying frenzy has already passed and the is 991 being announced within 6 weeks. I saw a previously titled (technically used but as good as new new from my perspective) 125k GTS with 1,000 miles on the odo go for 94K over the weekend.
#11
07-20-2011, 05:38 PM
True, dealers get "about" 10% to play with. I asked about factory incentives at a couple of dealerships and was told that because production was kept tight and inventory was low that there probably wouldn't be any factory incentives on 11's and 12's. I bet once the the 991's land that there will be some great deals on remaining inventory.
#12
07-20-2011, 06:37 PM
I recently purchased a 2012 C2S, so if anyone is interested, here's what I found:
For 2011, invoice price of car is about 10.5% under MSRP. There is supposedly a $1219 holdback on C2S. So dealer cost of the car is about 11.8% under MSRP. Depending on how long the car has been on the lot, the dealer has paid "interest" on their loan, so this adds to their rough cost of the vehicle. So, for the individual who thinks he can "do better than 17% off," I sincerely doubt this. There might be a rare exception, perhaps if just one more sale before XYZ date would bump the salesperson/dealership the next bonus level/%, then yes, you could probably "name your price." But otherwise, 17% off is below dealer cost, for sure.
I also learned that every now and then, Porsche offers "trunk money" to dealerships, which is basically a factory-to-dealer incentive payment, typically for outgoing/previous models. If Porsche is offering trunk money, then the dealership can sell a car below their original cost and still be able to obtain a profit. But AFAIK, there is no trunk money available right now on the 2011 C2S.
If someone got XYZ % off MSRP, but there was a trade-in, then it's hard to interpret the deal. For instance, if someone reports 15% off MSRP, but only got 60% of "blue book" value for a trade-in, the deal wasn't really that good, and the 15% off would have been specific to that trade deal, and not available to you.
As of today, I believe 2012 models have slowly started to arrive in the last month or so. Some dealerships may not even have that many 2012's available yet. The invoice price on the C2S looks like it has increased by about $1400 between 2011 and 2012. One thing to keep in mind is that the 2011's will depreciate "1 year faster" than the 2012. This means that if you plan to resell in the next few years or so, the 2011 will have a resale price of about 7-12% less than an equivalent 2012.
Here's a sample of pricing in CA for a C2S in a popular color with popular options, all personally confirmed by email and within the past month or so (some of these were Invoice + $___k converted to MSRP discount)
Dealership 1: stocked 2011 for 5% off MSRP, then agreed to ~7% off
Dealership 2: stocked 2011 for 5% off MSRP
Dealership 3: ordered 2012 for 6% off MSRP
Dealership 4: stocked 2012 for 5% off MSRP
Dealership 5: stocked 2011 for 7% off MSRP, stocked 2012 for ~5.5% off MSRP, ordered 2012 for 5% off MSRP
Dealership 6: stocked 2012 for 7% off MSRP
Dealership 7: (not confirmed by me, reported by another member) ordered 2011 for 7% off MSRP back in early 2011
These prices don't necessarily include dealer fees, such as a "prep fee." One dealership wanted $600 for that, another wanted $0.
At least 3 dealerships in the LA area are currently offering a haggle-free price of $3000 above invoice (approx 7% off MSRP) for a stocked 2011. Just use Truecar.com to get this pricing. So you should definitely try not to pay more than that!
Another place to look is TrueCar for 2010 actual sales data (not enough data for 2011+). For new 2010 C2S cars purchased in 2011 (so one model year old), they sold for an average of 11% off MSRP or right around invoice. I did see some exceptions, particularly for cars in less popular colors or option choices, where people people reported for >15% off...but these were unconfirmed and unique cases. 11% off, based on actual car sales, was after a calendar-year flip, and probably with dealer incentives, so that might not be realistic until December of this year for 2011's. So if last year is any indicator, a range of 7-11% off MSRP (probably closer to 7%) in California would be where you're looking if you were to buy now. Personally, if there's a good chance you might want to sell the car within the next 5 years or so, and you can find an equivalent 2012 for just slightly more than a 2011, it probably makes more sense to go with the 2012.
Prices may be even better for 2011's and 2012's once the 991 is announced in September. But it depends! If Porsche announces a $15k hike in MSRP, then 2011/12 997 sales will probably continue to be strong, and pricing may not be hurt at all. 991's, depending on how hot they are, may not even sell for a very large discount off MSRP (if at all). So who knows. The only thing I would count on now, without knowing the 991 situation, is that 2011 models will probably drop another few % between now and December (but this is a no-brainer, same model-year cars would typically sell for a discount at the end of their calendar year).
...and this is all for California. I have no idea what things are like for the other 49 states or elsewhere in the world.
Good luck.
For 2011, invoice price of car is about 10.5% under MSRP. There is supposedly a $1219 holdback on C2S. So dealer cost of the car is about 11.8% under MSRP. Depending on how long the car has been on the lot, the dealer has paid "interest" on their loan, so this adds to their rough cost of the vehicle. So, for the individual who thinks he can "do better than 17% off," I sincerely doubt this. There might be a rare exception, perhaps if just one more sale before XYZ date would bump the salesperson/dealership the next bonus level/%, then yes, you could probably "name your price." But otherwise, 17% off is below dealer cost, for sure.
I also learned that every now and then, Porsche offers "trunk money" to dealerships, which is basically a factory-to-dealer incentive payment, typically for outgoing/previous models. If Porsche is offering trunk money, then the dealership can sell a car below their original cost and still be able to obtain a profit. But AFAIK, there is no trunk money available right now on the 2011 C2S.
If someone got XYZ % off MSRP, but there was a trade-in, then it's hard to interpret the deal. For instance, if someone reports 15% off MSRP, but only got 60% of "blue book" value for a trade-in, the deal wasn't really that good, and the 15% off would have been specific to that trade deal, and not available to you.
As of today, I believe 2012 models have slowly started to arrive in the last month or so. Some dealerships may not even have that many 2012's available yet. The invoice price on the C2S looks like it has increased by about $1400 between 2011 and 2012. One thing to keep in mind is that the 2011's will depreciate "1 year faster" than the 2012. This means that if you plan to resell in the next few years or so, the 2011 will have a resale price of about 7-12% less than an equivalent 2012.
Here's a sample of pricing in CA for a C2S in a popular color with popular options, all personally confirmed by email and within the past month or so (some of these were Invoice + $___k converted to MSRP discount)
Dealership 1: stocked 2011 for 5% off MSRP, then agreed to ~7% off
Dealership 2: stocked 2011 for 5% off MSRP
Dealership 3: ordered 2012 for 6% off MSRP
Dealership 4: stocked 2012 for 5% off MSRP
Dealership 5: stocked 2011 for 7% off MSRP, stocked 2012 for ~5.5% off MSRP, ordered 2012 for 5% off MSRP
Dealership 6: stocked 2012 for 7% off MSRP
Dealership 7: (not confirmed by me, reported by another member) ordered 2011 for 7% off MSRP back in early 2011
These prices don't necessarily include dealer fees, such as a "prep fee." One dealership wanted $600 for that, another wanted $0.
At least 3 dealerships in the LA area are currently offering a haggle-free price of $3000 above invoice (approx 7% off MSRP) for a stocked 2011. Just use Truecar.com to get this pricing. So you should definitely try not to pay more than that!
Another place to look is TrueCar for 2010 actual sales data (not enough data for 2011+). For new 2010 C2S cars purchased in 2011 (so one model year old), they sold for an average of 11% off MSRP or right around invoice. I did see some exceptions, particularly for cars in less popular colors or option choices, where people people reported for >15% off...but these were unconfirmed and unique cases. 11% off, based on actual car sales, was after a calendar-year flip, and probably with dealer incentives, so that might not be realistic until December of this year for 2011's. So if last year is any indicator, a range of 7-11% off MSRP (probably closer to 7%) in California would be where you're looking if you were to buy now. Personally, if there's a good chance you might want to sell the car within the next 5 years or so, and you can find an equivalent 2012 for just slightly more than a 2011, it probably makes more sense to go with the 2012.
Prices may be even better for 2011's and 2012's once the 991 is announced in September. But it depends! If Porsche announces a $15k hike in MSRP, then 2011/12 997 sales will probably continue to be strong, and pricing may not be hurt at all. 991's, depending on how hot they are, may not even sell for a very large discount off MSRP (if at all). So who knows. The only thing I would count on now, without knowing the 991 situation, is that 2011 models will probably drop another few % between now and December (but this is a no-brainer, same model-year cars would typically sell for a discount at the end of their calendar year).
...and this is all for California. I have no idea what things are like for the other 49 states or elsewhere in the world.
Good luck.
Last edited by gasongasoff; 07-20-2011 at 07:01 PM.
#14
07-20-2011, 09:54 PM
After spending shy of 5 months researching before purchasing my 911, I can say gasongasoff is spot on. 17% off on a 2011 is not going to happen. The numbers he quoted are accurate IMO and of course depend on your trade-in value and your dealer/geographic region. Be sure to research your trade-in value since that is of course a part of sales, a lower trade-in can be offered to give a "bigger discount" on the new car. Assuming a fair trade, I'd offer 90 on a 100k car and be prepared to settle a bit above that.
Do your homework and you'll know what is a fair, realistic deal and what isn't. And of course post pics after purchase
Do your homework and you'll know what is a fair, realistic deal and what isn't. And of course post pics after purchase
#15
07-20-2011, 11:23 PM
Actually, the 17% off is not just a thought, it was done by me for a buddy last week at a WI dealership without too much haggling effort. The car is a highly loaded 2011 black/black C2S. Is it below the "accepted invoice price?" Yes. Is it possible that there are hidden factory-to-dealer incentives that dealers are not talking about? Quite possible, otherwise it would not be possible to sell vehicles at such discounts and sustain a business. Do manufacturers ever offer hidden incentives? All the time, pretty much they all do, maybe other than the real exotics.
So, for the individual who thinks he can "do better than 17% off," I sincerely doubt this. There might be a rare exception, perhaps if just one more sale before XYZ date would bump the salesperson/dealership the next bonus level/%, then yes, you could probably "name your price." But otherwise, 17% off is below dealer cost, for sure.