Speaking of Japanese cars, I'd put a Lexus LFA in the category of substantially better than my 911 (C2S). Got a hot lap in one with a pro driver on a track but haven't driven one (yet)!

 

Yes, I grasp the esoteric nature of forum software. My point was that we're already reading that thread, so clearly your earlier posts did not deal with the issue both of us identified. And since you posted the question to start the thread, it suggests you wanted a pat on the back, not answers.

Gary

 

to call a $79,000 (base price) 911 C2 a 'junk' shows signs of delusion.. or perhaps English is ur second language

junk/jəNGk/

Noun: Old or discarded articles that are considered useless or of little value.

 

non-sense... any tin bucket on wheels is a some sort of junk.

C2 is way better as it got less junk in it. look at what people do with their 964 and 993 cars, same happens now with 996 and starts with 997 cars. you get a frame, interior, some basic parts - do whatyou want with them and build what you feel you like. i bet next big thing will be putting new 9a1 DFI engines into older 996 and 997 cars. I definitely will try this probably, with time, as old 3.6L M96 will have to go sooner or later.

or always buy brand new cars from a factory. it is cheaper. but in the end it is just a car, not a holy grail.

 

I agree about the NSX, but in no way would I consider that 'substantially better' than any 911. It was a GREAT car, and I heard that Honda is revisiting the idea again (rumors are starting again).

So: more money = better?

No. Sorry, but no. You can word it any way you'd like, if you're trying to tell me that the 911 C2 is the ultimate machine, I'd say you're high.

There was a whole other thread here about this (feel free to browse for it).

If you believe the C6 is just as good as a C6 ZR-1, then we have nothing else to discuss. If you've driven a ZR-1, let me know if a base C6 still impresses you.

If you've driven a Turbo (or Turbo S or GT2), let me know if the C2 is still on par. To me, it is a waste of time. Anybody cross shopping these? Anybody move from a a Turbo S, excited about a C2? Probably not. Junk, to me, is a relative term. I could never look at one, and think - wow, that car is amazing. The bar is set so much higher.

 

You know what they say: one man's junk is another man's treasure.

Though I have to point out, it is not really fair to compare a stock Carrera (C2, C2S) with a stock Corvette (C6). A Carrera will always be a great driving experience, Turbo or not. But I agree once you've driven a ZR-1, C6 is junk.

 

i see ur logic (flawed as it is) is that 911 turbo is better than c2, so c2 is a junk.. and zr-1 is better than c6..so c6 is a junk, too.

no one said c2 is an ultimate driving machine..lol
but i did say that c2 is not a junk.

perhaps someday u will understand.

 

Pat on the back? For what?

Anyway, the issue that post addresses is the question of whether there are discrete levels. I proposed a method to rate cars and see if such levels exist. What issue are you referring to that I didn't respond to?

Also, I hope it's clear that the question I posed isn't necessarily going to yield "answers" in an objective sense. That's unrealistic, as the questions about what "substantially better" means already illustrate.

I'm looking more to see if there's a consensus of opinion among people who have actually driven (or better yet, owned) both the 911 and other performance cars, including cars more expensive than the 911. So far, we seem to have only a handful of people in the forum with that experience. And with that handful, I don't think we have a consensus, but rather a spectrum of opinions. That may simply reflect people putting different weight on different criteria. If so, the answer to my original question would be "it depends on who you ask," which is fine.

 

You asked, we answered: At this level the differences between cars are matters of taste. And we do have plenty of people who've driven the spectrum of cars at this level. We also have a consensus. Except for a troll and one person who let himself be baited, we agree that it's personal preference. You just keep trying to restate the question as if you're looking for an answer you preconceived before posting.

That's when a thread gets boring, when you expect us to play straight man.

That seems to be the answer you preconceived and it's wrong. Your question as you originally stated it has a very clear objective answer. No. After this, there are no 'levels' as you asked. It's all just differences in taste.

I thought you were asking sincerely, albeit naively, or I wouldn't have bothered to answer.

Gary

 

GTPurely Porsche magazine tested a 997.1 Powerkit Carrera S, a 997.1 GT3, a 997.1 GT3 RS and a 997.1 Turbo against each other on acceleration and in a road course; the Carrera had standard brakes (non PCCB) and regular Michelin Pilot Sport tires. Now, if any Carrera based car below a GTS is junk or almost junk, I will just have to be content with my lousy Powerkit Carrera S and its underwhelming, let down performance.

 

got to agree with you Gary.

When the opinions are given its time to move on.

 

Since I have a 911, I'd like to agree with you. But despite your (over)confidence, I can't ignore this message and the possibility of pro-Porsche bias in a Porsche forum (that would be naive):

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3290179

I may indeed pose the same question in Ferrari, Lambo, etc. forums, as Surfah suggested.

Also, consider lightening up a bit. I intended this to be a fun discussion about great cars, not a heated debate about anything serious. This is trivial stuff in the scheme of things.

Addendum: And I don't have a preconcieved answer to my original question. I wouldn't have bothered to ask the question if I did. You have your answer - which I respect and appreciate - but there are others who credibly disagree with you.

 

There may be more opinions to come, which would be welcomed. And IMO, we don't have a consensus at this point. Perhaps this warrants a poll ...

 

i have to agree with Gary.

and also ur first notion that 911 is a 'level' above c63 is inaccurate.

they are simply two different cars catering to different needs..
just different class..not different levels.

 

Definitely. Sometimes it's like comparing which painting or sculpture is better. The new C63 AMG coupe is a beast and includes a lot of parts from the SLS AMG. Decent bang for the buck if straight line speed and gobs of torque are your flavor.

I'd put the Black series on par with the 911s more expensive variants.