Hi,

even with a minimal probability to get anything out of it I think it would be great if those who feel interested could send an email/letter to PCNA and request them to create an upgrade program to swap out any m96/m97 engine from any 997.1 car and replace it with new 9a1 motor/ecu.

they obviously can do it and they do not want to do it but i do not see why it cannot be done as any m97/m96 engine in 997.1 car is a grenade waiting to explode and they have a solution now. It has to be offered and i personally would not mind to pay a reasonable fee to get that done.

Regards, Paul.

 

How come they don't offer a replacement? You mean I can't just buy a replacement from PCNA?

 

you cannot put a 9a1 instead of m97, no.
plus what i say here is about an offer of a dedicated swap-out program with lowered fees, not a retail sale of entire $10K bus/sensor harness, ECU and motor.
they have flawed design in the m97/m96 units, they developed a new version of a better engine now, i see no reason why they should not offer a program for owners of their products to be able to upgrade those components with reduced pricing rather than to force to sell an old car and get new one.
no one says it should be free, but it should be possible, at least that is what i think.

 

You're kidding right? Any business would be nuts to do such a thing. They have a new thing because they want to sell new things... if someone likes the new thing then they should buy the new thing.

If someone feels there is an inherent flaw that was known and not represented in their old thing then the legal steps to address that should be pursued.

Matt

 

Paul,

I admire the proactive stance, really, since I think that's how things get done in this world...

BUT, I think you should clarify some points for us less knowledgeable forum members:

1. What do you mean "grenade waiting to explode"? The IMS/RMS issue? That can be dealt with using a retrofit and anyway it's a pretty minor occurence on post '06 cars it seems. Something else? The JD power surveys etc show the 911 as being one of the most reliable cars (of any type) on the road today. Besides a couple anectodal cases here and there, is there any data showing unusual frequency for 997 engine failure? Please explain.

2. More broadly speaking, isn't technological progress just the nature of the business? Why have an engine program and not say, also swap tip for PDK, PCM 2 for PCM 3, incandescents for LEDs, etc.

I think paying the reduced cost helps your case, but at the end of the day, with car guys like us, it's usually the new goodies that gets us to buy new models, so unless there is something critically wrong (of the safety recall variety), I don't see how you make your case, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise and signing the letter.

 

Just take that money, and trade your car in on a 2009 or newer. It is more work then just upgrading a few parts.

 

+1 - the 997.1 engine isn't going to explode any more than the 997.2 engine is going to deplete our oil reserves...and even if PCNA bought into this, they'd have to get approval from Germany - never going to happen.

 

well, it really looks most people are ok with loosing one engine to get same exact one with good chances to loose it again. if that is how it should be - why not. fine with me.

 

I'm once again forced to inquire whether or not their is any actual evidence (besides anecdotes on these sorts of forums) that there is a high failure rate of 997.1 engines. I've been told by several Porsche mechanics that they just haven't seen anything like what I consistently see presented on these sorts of threads. I'm genuinely curious... and self-interested, as an owner of a 2005 C2.

 

If there are widespread failure rates (like the BMW HPFP), it's a well-kept secret.

 

yep, you even had an independent manufacturer to invent an alternative IMS bearing for one of such well-kept secrets... a low temp thermostat for another well kept secret.

too bad nothing you can do when your rod bolts brake and it takes whole core apart, when you get scored cylinders, when valve lifters stop working, when chain starts to rattle, or when coolant sips from all sides and no one wants to do crap about it as it is not even considered to be worth opening this POS by definition. a possibility of a failure is the reason enough to ask for an alternative as such an alternative exists for 2 years now and none of local shops had a registered event of such sorts while m96/m97 were going at 5, 10, 15, 20, 35 K miles without any logical predictability. it is true current iteration of those motors is more reliable but it is same concept. all it takes to put 9a1 motor instead of m97 into car is to adjust layout of ECU signal bus IMHO.

but as long as customers treat a grenade they ride on as an 'anecdote' i guess it really does not matter. i would be curious to hear cattman`s opinion here as he was a most recent person who got lucky to become a part of this 'anecdote'.
i know of 7 cases like this since i got my car in '09 and i do not know that many people total, so, for me it is quite real thing and not an anecdote.

 

PCNA is not very responsive to any customer requests or complaints. Their normal procedure is to recommend that you contact a dealer. The dealers will probably not have much better luck than you do. It is also unlikely that they will acknowledge a design or production problem, even if it is real. It is possible that some minor issues will be corrected gratis, but only as "good will".

 

of course they not. until total number of complainers does not get too close to a critical mass required for a class action they all are not very responsive.

 

I'm certainly not saying that it doesn't happen, nor am I saying that I wouldn't think it would be grand for Porsche to swap out engines, I'm simply wondering how often these things happen in the context of all 997.1 production. I had two separate mechanics, each with dozens of Porsches in their bays on a daily basis, tell me that the only IMS failure they've seen was in one case and it was an '06 S.

In fact, when I do my clutch in the spring, I'll likely do the IMS upgrade to be on the safe side.

Why has nobody pushed for a class action suit if these are as widespread as they apparently appear to be? Has there been any systematic effort to gather objective data?