^
thats true, in reverse, it's even more like a damn airplane wing. Does the 997 Carrera S have the auto deployed spoiler ?

 

The deployable rear spoiler was introduced with the 964 model in 1993 and continues today with the 991. Yes, the 997 non GT models have the deployable rear spoiler.

 

I might try this. I've got this high speed onramp I like to take up to 90+ and the front end feels a bit light through a gentle "S". maybe sport setting can make it feel more stable

 

I cant agree with this.

While I do have bilsteins on my base carrera now, I did two years of DE's with my car before the bilsteins this year and frequently went over 100MPH and upwards of 130MPH and not once felt the front float.

 

Just thinking in typeface here but is it possible that some the lightening/floating of the front end might be a consequence of road terrain. That is, an uneven surface at speed causing the front suspension to compress and decompress. I had my '08S up to 140 or so on a few straights at the track (= smooth surface at Thunder Hill and Laguna Seca) and it never felt anything less than stable. On highways, however, I don't usually go fast enough (nor do I really want to) to test this theory.

 

At Streets of Willow (c.f. a dozen or so YouTube videos you can Google up) Turn 8 is a moderately-banked, increasing-radius, 225° curve that lets a 997 make the 2-3 shift just before the straight opens up. A quarter-mile of acceleration in 3d and 4th leads to the 'Waterfall', named for its horizon-edge effect where the rest of the track drops out of sight beyond a ridge.

The interesting effect, the one that calls for at least orangutan-sized *****, if not the full gorilla, is that the road doesn't continue on the other side of that ridge that hides it. In fact, it steps sideways about twenty feet. Then, just as your gut accepts the new direction of pavement, it steps back to the left and then turns right. Before you can mutter "Omigod" that brisk righthander converts to a downhill slider to the left that ends with a sharp 90° left that even race rubber won't let you get around at more than fifty mph.

Now the trick of all that, after you get past the visions of disaster your eyes report, is that you cross that first ridge -- the top of "the Waterfall" -- at 110 mph in a C2S and you have to get down to 50 mph by the apex of that terminal left, but it's the Devil's own job finding a decent place to brake when you first drive the section. For one thing, it's like Turn 6 at Big Willow: you have the distinct impression that another 5 mph, 10 outside, would see you catching serious air. Braking seems out of place when the grasp you have on Earth is that tenuous, so you have to wait until the car's weight settles back. By then, you've completed one zig and one zag if memory serves.

It helps (or maybe not) to think of it as a lane change to the right around a slow truck, back to the fast lane when you find you're stymied by some tourist camper van, and then back around that van to reach a descending off-ramp which ends in a turn back under the Autobahn you were just driving at 110 mph. All in 3.5 seconds near as I can estimate.

I have done that with and without sport mode on the suspension and have to report that the difference is only one of rhythm. I can't honestly agree that the car felt floaty in touring mode. The whole car feels light going over the top, but no sense of lessened directional stability at all. God help me trying to do those "lane changes" so fast if I felt that way.

Are you running stock suspension and settings, Bob? Small changes can have a marked effect when you get out toward the edge of the envelope, and I know the most common recommended mods to Porsche's factory settings do hope to lessen understeer in autocross events, so they could have exciting effects in fast-twitch corners at three-digit speeds.

Incidentally, for the OP: I live in the high desert of the Mojave. We have afternoon winds that are typically 10 gusting 25 knots. Higher winds are not unusual. That track segment in particular is what caused me to report the 997.2 C2S is brilliant at high speed. Admittedly, it isn't serious high speed like some tracks permit, but getting the car light at 100+ in gusty winds that strong is a fine test of high-speed stability.

P.S. I just checked. You can find the track in Google Earth at 34°52'38.46"N, 118°15'34.92"W. An overhead view is easier to interpret than the in-car videos on YouTube.

Gary

 

I have an '09 997.2 and do find that it gets light above 140; as a result, am researching modest (<$2,000) downforce increase for front end (without replacing entire front of car). The designers do not yet offer solutions broadly, but likely will within the next year or so (it seems like the designs lag the current model).

Although counter-intuitive, relaxing one's grip on the wheel slightly, allowing the car to "find" its own path, helps with the issue on straights (although I'm not sure I would advise this in a corner....).

 

I've been tracking 997's since 2006 with no extra aero bits...no issues except for over 160 at Daytona and heavy braking coming off the Tri-Oval back down into the infield. Nothing major just had to beaware.
I was recently back at Daytona with my 997 GTS with factory aero kit and it was more stable at above 140mph in this braking zone.

 

Make your purchase with all the confidence in the world. You're good to go like a champ at high speeds unless something is just plain wrong with the car, e.g. cheap or incorrectly sized tires, worn suspension, incorrect aftermarket suspension, or poor alignment, something like that..

As has been suggested by one of our knowledgeable members, don't spend extra $$ on wings etc right out of the gate. Put that money into some instruction and track days, since it sounds like you plan on making the most of your pcar. The better you drive the better your pcar will drive. Later on, you'll have a better feel for what mods you want to make, if any.

And as a bonus... It is a fantastic, comfy, reliable and practical daily driver around town. How many supercars can pull double duty so well?

Good luck and welcome to the Six- A lot of good, knowledgeable members here.

 

How many miles are on your stock suspension? On the non-S, I find they are a bit soft on rebound control and even more so w/ 30k+ miles on them.

Upgrading your suspension + 10mm lowering should fix it right up. I see that PSS9's are on your to-do list, but if I may, please consider a set of KWv3's instead for about the same price. waaayyy better!!

 

Right- The freeways have unexpected dips / peaks and other unexpected anomalies which are not noticeable at normal speeds, but can be quite hazardous at +triple digits. A track is usually a known quantity, freeways are not.

I got a nice wake up last week hitting the 101 East onramp from Van Nuys blvd. As I exited Van Nuys blvd onto the onramp, I gunned it to get ahead of a big truck (my rock chip paranoia kicking in!).

In that short onramp distance and right before the onramp meets the freeway, I was doing about 80. There was a slow dip towards the end of the on ramp that ends in a slow hump right where you get on flat with the freeway feeder lane, and it is so gradual there is no visual queue it's coming. Guess what happened when hitting that at 80... airborne .

No issue or damage came of it, but it just reminded me that even though I think I know the local roads, they can change unexpectedly.

 

Gary,
As i alluded in my initial post, I also have an aftermarket suspension with tuned settings. This setup was also not tested by the factory. Most serious track enthusiasts are in the same boat (afaik).
Between the Damptronics, ride height, and sway bars, I'm already in unchartered territory. I do understand oversteer/understeer, and adjustments based on tires, suspension, chassis, aero, etc. so, sure, mismatched aero can cause an issue with all else being equal, but I'm not in an otherwise-stock car.
So, sure, it worked out for me, and most other custom scenarios work out well enough for folks, particularly when an experienced mechanic is involved. In my case, my mechanic spent a few years supporting Alex Job racing when they were winning regularly a while back, and he knows his ****e....

 

That's what I recommend for people considering mods that are not already well-tested by others. You either to want to follow well-worn paths in your modifications, or you want someone helping who's "been to see the bear" as we way.

For the record, it may seem like it's not the mechanic's *** in the car, so they can't be all that concerned when they make changes, but in my experience most race mechanics are intensely aware that a maladjusted widget or even a stripped nut can get a driver killed. Most of them are very professional about the changes they make, let alone suggesting something for a third-party to attempt.

Oops. Gotta run,

G

 

140 or so at T-hill or Laguna? That seems way too optimistic or exaggerated for a stock 997.1S. Such top speeds at these tracks are usually in GT3 or turbo territory.

Sorry for being OT, but I couldn't believe what I just read.....

 

At L/S not too certain b/c I wasn't watching the speedo - 130's anyway and not very consistently. At TH, however, on three, only three ocassions I nailed the final turn (presents like a double apex) going into the straight and the car simply took off. Typically, after I butcher that last turn, I can only get up to about 125 to 135 depending on how late I want to break (how brave I feel) going into turn 1. A buddy of mine who races SCCA had no problem hitting 140 (in my old S) in the straight at TH but he brakes REALLY late into Turn 1. It's really amazing to see what these cars can do when your a passenger with someone who has lots of experience!