Which Porsche Do you Recommend?
#31
01-01-2012 | 05:35 PM
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Torque aside, the M3 has a competent/fun engine. Besides I thought of ride, not performance, as that seems where the OP is focused. Recall that he consider that a Cayman has 'a lot of vertical motion', which I interpreted as harsh. I do not consider the Cayman harsh at all.
A comment on suspension comfort:
All stock Porsche suspensions (PASM or not) are very comfortable. People often confuse cushiness with comfort. An old Buick has a cushy suspension, giving an initial feeling of comfort, which becomes fatiguing on a long road trip. A Buick suspension is a low pass filter, meaning it filters high frequency bits, such as sharp bumps and expansion joints, but it lets low frequencies through, which yields a boat-like-ride with critically fatiguing low-frequency energy.
Most people riding a well controlled sports car suspension (like Porsche's) feel the high frequency bumps around town and consider the suspension harsh. It is not. They are actually riding a very solid/stable platform that is communicating to their bodies very little fatiguing low frequency energy, as there is no significant energy in the high frequencies. A drive from SF to LA in a cushy Buick is quite fatiguing. The same trip on a 911 is not fatiguing at all. I have experienced both.
P.S. - The new 991 adds a layer of cushiness on an otherwise stable/competent suspension (or so we hope). That is achieved using nonlinear spring designs and nonlinear/asymmetric shock valving. The price of that is of course road isolation, but some want just that.
A comment on suspension comfort:
All stock Porsche suspensions (PASM or not) are very comfortable. People often confuse cushiness with comfort. An old Buick has a cushy suspension, giving an initial feeling of comfort, which becomes fatiguing on a long road trip. A Buick suspension is a low pass filter, meaning it filters high frequency bits, such as sharp bumps and expansion joints, but it lets low frequencies through, which yields a boat-like-ride with critically fatiguing low-frequency energy.
Most people riding a well controlled sports car suspension (like Porsche's) feel the high frequency bumps around town and consider the suspension harsh. It is not. They are actually riding a very solid/stable platform that is communicating to their bodies very little fatiguing low frequency energy, as there is no significant energy in the high frequencies. A drive from SF to LA in a cushy Buick is quite fatiguing. The same trip on a 911 is not fatiguing at all. I have experienced both.
P.S. - The new 991 adds a layer of cushiness on an otherwise stable/competent suspension (or so we hope). That is achieved using nonlinear spring designs and nonlinear/asymmetric shock valving. The price of that is of course road isolation, but some want just that.
I don't know the OP's weights as far as torque, comfort, nostalgia, etc., but I completely agree with your thoughts on suspension comfort. I too have made long trips in an E320 and C63, and I much prefer the C63 for the reasons you give, even though many people describe the C63's ride as harsh. The Porsches are even better than the C63 in this regard because they're as controlled or more, while also being more cushy.
I think the same consideration applies to steering. When the steering is relatively imprecise (as with the E320), much more effort is needed to make course corrections - which is also fatiguing - as compared to the more precise steering of the C63 and Porsches. In fact, I wish my Porsches were even more precise (despite most people describing the Cayman R's steering as precise), but maybe a future GT3 will address that need.
#32
01-01-2012 | 07:10 PM
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Join the local Porsche club and the national PCA. Read the Panorama magazine as well as Excellence. Meet other members at a social and "pick their brain". Think about going on some Porsche club tours in 2012. Lots of funs. It is about both the P cars and people you meet.
Consider driving a 6 speed 997.2 (2009 or newer) and a few turbo models as a start.
When you are combining Passion and Practicality it is about personal preference. That is why we drive different versions of the 911. The other models are also excellent in their own way. (wife drives a Boxster manual and loves to drop the top; difficult in Seattle though)
Consider driving a 6 speed 997.2 (2009 or newer) and a few turbo models as a start.
When you are combining Passion and Practicality it is about personal preference. That is why we drive different versions of the 911. The other models are also excellent in their own way. (wife drives a Boxster
manual and loves to drop the top; difficult in Seattle though)
#33
01-01-2012 | 07:30 PM
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Gary
#34
01-01-2012 | 07:41 PM
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You might consider an Aston Martin Vantage. I have one and it has been a fantastic car. It's plenty fast for the street, I have tracked it and it was exhilarating, plus you can set them up to be very comfortable. They are loud inside the cabin though. It's a good loud.
I'm most likely picking up a 997.1 S, for cold weather and track duty. The two cars have a similar feeling to me. I know that's not something people normally say, but they have the same direct steering and gear noise. The same old world feeling. Completely unlike the aaudi R8 V10 my best friend runs. That car is blindingly fast, but quiet and comfortable. You can't hear the exhaust, gear, tires etc.
Perhaps an R8, might be an option. A lot of Ferrari guys run them as their Daily Drivers.
I'm most likely picking up a 997.1 S, for cold weather and track duty. The two cars have a similar feeling to me. I know that's not something people normally say, but they have the same direct steering and gear noise. The same old world feeling. Completely unlike the aaudi R8 V10 my best friend runs. That car is blindingly fast, but quiet and comfortable. You can't hear the exhaust, gear, tires etc.
Perhaps an R8, might be an option. A lot of Ferrari guys run them as their Daily Drivers.
#35
01-01-2012 | 08:16 PM
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You might consider an Aston Martin Vantage. I have one and it has been a fantastic car. It's plenty fast for the street, I have tracked it and it was exhilarating, plus you can set them up to be very comfortable. They are loud inside the cabin though. It's a good loud.
I'm most likely picking up a 997.1 S, for cold weather and track duty. The two cars have a similar feeling to me. I know that's not something people normally say, but they have the same direct steering and gear noise. The same old world feeling. Completely unlike the aaudi R8 V10 my best friend runs. That car is blindingly fast, but quiet and comfortable. You can't hear the exhaust, gear, tires etc.
Perhaps an R8, might be an option. A lot of Ferrari guys run them as their Daily Drivers.
I'm most likely picking up a 997.1 S, for cold weather and track duty. The two cars have a similar feeling to me. I know that's not something people normally say, but they have the same direct steering and gear noise. The same old world feeling. Completely unlike the aaudi R8 V10 my best friend runs. That car is blindingly fast, but quiet and comfortable. You can't hear the exhaust, gear, tires etc.
Perhaps an R8, might be an option. A lot of Ferrari guys run them as their Daily Drivers.
#38
01-08-2012 | 12:37 AM
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When you say coupe, I am assuming you mean hardtop two seater and not just two seater.
If you are open to a non hardtop alternative, I suggest at least considering the Targa. I have one and truly love the light in the cabin. The roof is tinted, so it is not glaring and there is a retractable sunscreen, which in Colorado with over 300 days of sunlight, I only use when I park my car out in direct sunlight. Considering you plan on taking road trips, you and your wife may truly enjoy the panoramic experience of the Targa. I love convertibles, but on the highway, I don't enjoy having the top down. The Targa is a nice way to enjoy the scenery on the open highway. I also believe the Targa has a very sophisticated look to it.
On depreciation, why not conserve your money and protect against a higher nominal amount of depreciation by buying a used 997? You can pick up a 07 for about half the original sticker of $115M, which is at the low side of your budget (mid $50's). In about four to five years, you should be able to recoup about 60% of that price with a nominal depreciation of $22M as opposed to the new car nominal depreciation of $55M. That $33M difference can be used for better things such as taking that wonderful love of your life to beautiful places.
I'm not big on CPO's, I've read some strange stories on cars that have been CPO but have had problems on this forum. Perhaps my bias is because my car did not have a CPO.
) Definately do insist on having a third party pre-purchase inspection (PPI) with a DME. The DME will give you a good indication on how hard the car was driven by the previous owner(s). To find the right shop to look it over, post a thread under one of the regional listings at the bottom of the forum. You will get good advice from guys in your area on mechanics that are knowledgable and professional. Also some of the early '05's had a problem with the intermediate shaft bearing (IMS), be knowledgable of that subject.
For reliability, I say the 911 is a safe bet. Look at the recent year's Auto Edition of Consumer Reports, they Recommend the 911, which is pretty impressive for a European sports car. Also look at JD Powers, they like the 911 as well. Finally, there is an agency in Germany that tests cars for reliability and they recently came out and said that the 911 had the least amount of fails of any cars consistently over the last decade. I'm not sure if a fail means a car had some issue that needed to be fixed before it could be granted a license plate renewal, if so the bias could be because (as you might expect) Porsche owners are more meticulous on maintenance than general commuter car owners. Either way, it speaks positively of the 911.
Good luck! I hope you find a great car! I can tell you this, I enjoy driving my 911 more every time I drive it!
If you are open to a non hardtop alternative, I suggest at least considering the Targa. I have one and truly love the light in the cabin. The roof is tinted, so it is not glaring and there is a retractable sunscreen, which in Colorado with over 300 days of sunlight, I only use when I park my car out in direct sunlight. Considering you plan on taking road trips, you and your wife may truly enjoy the panoramic experience of the Targa. I love convertibles, but on the highway, I don't enjoy having the top down. The Targa is a nice way to enjoy the scenery on the open highway. I also believe the Targa has a very sophisticated look to it.
On depreciation, why not conserve your money and protect against a higher nominal amount of depreciation by buying a used 997? You can pick up a 07 for about half the original sticker of $115M, which is at the low side of your budget (mid $50's). In about four to five years, you should be able to recoup about 60% of that price with a nominal depreciation of $22M as opposed to the new car nominal depreciation of $55M. That $33M difference can be used for better things such as taking that wonderful love of your life to beautiful places.
I'm not big on CPO's, I've read some strange stories on cars that have been CPO but have had problems on this forum. Perhaps my bias is because my car did not have a CPO.
) Definately do insist on having a third party pre-purchase inspection (PPI) with a DME. The DME will give you a good indication on how hard the car was driven by the previous owner(s). To find the right shop to look it over, post a thread under one of the regional listings at the bottom of the forum. You will get good advice from guys in your area on mechanics that are knowledgable and professional. Also some of the early '05's had a problem with the intermediate shaft bearing (IMS), be knowledgable of that subject.For reliability, I say the 911 is a safe bet. Look at the recent year's Auto Edition of Consumer Reports, they Recommend the 911, which is pretty impressive for a European sports car. Also look at JD Powers, they like the 911 as well. Finally, there is an agency in Germany that tests cars for reliability and they recently came out and said that the 911 had the least amount of fails of any cars consistently over the last decade. I'm not sure if a fail means a car had some issue that needed to be fixed before it could be granted a license plate renewal, if so the bias could be because (as you might expect) Porsche owners are more meticulous on maintenance than general commuter car owners. Either way, it speaks positively of the 911.
Good luck! I hope you find a great car! I can tell you this, I enjoy driving my 911 more every time I drive it!
#39
01-09-2012 | 10:45 AM
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When you say coupe, I am assuming you mean hardtop two seater and not just two seater.
If you are open to a non hardtop alternative, I suggest at least considering the Targa. I have one and truly love the light in the cabin. The roof is tinted, so it is not glaring and there is a retractable sunscreen, which in Colorado with over 300 days of sunlight, I only use when I park my car out in direct sunlight. Considering you plan on taking road trips, you and your wife may truly enjoy the panoramic experience of the Targa. I love convertibles, but on the highway, I don't enjoy having the top down. The Targa is a nice way to enjoy the scenery on the open highway. I also believe the Targa has a very sophisticated look to it.
On depreciation, why not conserve your money and protect against a higher nominal amount of depreciation by buying a used 997? You can pick up a 07 for about half the original sticker of $115M, which is at the low side of your budget (mid $50's). In about four to five years, you should be able to recoup about 60% of that price with a nominal depreciation of $22M as opposed to the new car nominal depreciation of $55M. That $33M difference can be used for better things such as taking that wonderful love of your life to beautiful places.
I'm not big on CPO's, I've read some strange stories on cars that have been CPO but have had problems on this forum. Perhaps my bias is because my car did not have a CPO.) Definately do insist on having a third party pre-purchase inspection (PPI) with a DME. The DME will give you a good indication on how hard the car was driven by the previous owner(s). To find the right shop to look it over, post a thread under one of the regional listings at the bottom of the forum. You will get good advice from guys in your area on mechanics that are knowledgable and professional. Also some of the early '05's had a problem with the intermediate shaft bearing (IMS), be knowledgable of that subject.
For reliability, I say the 911 is a safe bet. Look at the recent year's Auto Edition of Consumer Reports, they Recommend the 911, which is pretty impressive for a European sports car. Also look at JD Powers, they like the 911 as well. Finally, there is an agency in Germany that tests cars for reliability and they recently came out and said that the 911 had the least amount of fails of any cars consistently over the last decade. I'm not sure if a fail means a car had some issue that needed to be fixed before it could be granted a license plate renewal, if so the bias could be because (as you might expect) Porsche owners are more meticulous on maintenance than general commuter car owners. Either way, it speaks positively of the 911.
Good luck! I hope you find a great car! I can tell you this, I enjoy driving my 911 more every time I drive it!
If you are open to a non hardtop alternative, I suggest at least considering the Targa. I have one and truly love the light in the cabin. The roof is tinted, so it is not glaring and there is a retractable sunscreen, which in Colorado with over 300 days of sunlight, I only use when I park my car out in direct sunlight. Considering you plan on taking road trips, you and your wife may truly enjoy the panoramic experience of the Targa. I love convertibles, but on the highway, I don't enjoy having the top down. The Targa is a nice way to enjoy the scenery on the open highway. I also believe the Targa has a very sophisticated look to it.
On depreciation, why not conserve your money and protect against a higher nominal amount of depreciation by buying a used 997? You can pick up a 07 for about half the original sticker of $115M, which is at the low side of your budget (mid $50's). In about four to five years, you should be able to recoup about 60% of that price with a nominal depreciation of $22M as opposed to the new car nominal depreciation of $55M. That $33M difference can be used for better things such as taking that wonderful love of your life to beautiful places.
I'm not big on CPO's, I've read some strange stories on cars that have been CPO but have had problems on this forum. Perhaps my bias is because my car did not have a CPO.
) Definately do insist on having a third party pre-purchase inspection (PPI) with a DME. The DME will give you a good indication on how hard the car was driven by the previous owner(s). To find the right shop to look it over, post a thread under one of the regional listings at the bottom of the forum. You will get good advice from guys in your area on mechanics that are knowledgable and professional. Also some of the early '05's had a problem with the intermediate shaft bearing (IMS), be knowledgable of that subject.For reliability, I say the 911 is a safe bet. Look at the recent year's Auto Edition of Consumer Reports, they Recommend the 911, which is pretty impressive for a European sports car. Also look at JD Powers, they like the 911 as well. Finally, there is an agency in Germany that tests cars for reliability and they recently came out and said that the 911 had the least amount of fails of any cars consistently over the last decade. I'm not sure if a fail means a car had some issue that needed to be fixed before it could be granted a license plate renewal, if so the bias could be because (as you might expect) Porsche owners are more meticulous on maintenance than general commuter car owners. Either way, it speaks positively of the 911.
Good luck! I hope you find a great car! I can tell you this, I enjoy driving my 911 more every time I drive it!
In 2010 and 2011, however, Porsche 911 lost its #1 spot to Toyota Prius *shame*
#40
01-09-2012 | 11:14 AM
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imho to consider good shape ferrari you need at least $150K or better $200K. $100K will not buy you much and maintenance on a 8-10 year old F car may bite.
$80K wil buy 07-08 GT3 porsche car, for what you want probably a '09 997.2 car is the best bang per buck, search for it. do not get older 997.1.
$80K wil buy 07-08 GT3 porsche car, for what you want probably a '09 997.2 car is the best bang per buck, search for it. do not get older 997.1.
Last edited by utkinpol; 01-09-2012 at 12:05 PM.
#41
03-01-2012 | 01:52 PM
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Lencap, Did you buy a car already??
If not, I thought I can throw in my 2c as well ...
The only Ferrari that makes sense is a 550 Maranello. This car is built like a tank, is extremely reliable and is a comfortable GT. And unlike most Ferraris, it is easy to get into. My own Ferrari 348 puts a premium on limberness to get in and out - you pretty much fall into the seat. I think about $2k per year for expenses should be adequate.
I think from the Porsche stable, the 997 Carrera would be best from a ride comfort, GT like experience. 4 wheel drive only if the climate dictates it.
For the other gent, who mentioned that the 348 will not be fun to drive. I can tell you from personal experience that it is amazing to drive with a lovely engine sound, pin sharp steering (unassisted and uncorrupted by power steering). Yep it is about as fast (slow really) as a Nissan 350Z but it is exhilarating from an experiential aspect.
I am selling my car soon and hopefully will get myself a GT3 one of these years. This would probably my last hardcore car before I move into a more comfy car like the Maranello/Modena/Porker C2.
Good luck!
If not, I thought I can throw in my 2c as well ...
The only Ferrari that makes sense is a 550 Maranello. This car is built like a tank, is extremely reliable and is a comfortable GT. And unlike most Ferraris, it is easy to get into. My own Ferrari 348 puts a premium on limberness to get in and out - you pretty much fall into the seat.
I think about $2k per year for expenses should be adequate.I think from the Porsche stable, the 997 Carrera would be best from a ride comfort, GT like experience. 4 wheel drive only if the climate dictates it.
For the other gent, who mentioned that the 348 will not be fun to drive. I can tell you from personal experience that it is amazing to drive with a lovely engine sound, pin sharp steering (unassisted and uncorrupted by power steering). Yep it is about as fast (slow really) as a Nissan 350Z but it is exhilarating from an experiential aspect.
I am selling my car soon and hopefully will get myself a GT3 one of these years. This would probably my last hardcore car before I move into a more comfy car like the Maranello/Modena/Porker C2.
Good luck!
#42
03-01-2012 | 02:16 PM
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I have a 2009 Carrera S Coupe w/ Sport Chrono. I love the sports car handling & acceleration, combined with the comfort & amenities that make it suitable daily driver. I recommend finding a 1 owner CPO car & save yourself $30k-$40k. I've owned 3 Ferraris & currently have a Ferrari 430 F1 Spider, but you can't really drive it daily plus the maintenance & depreciation costs can really surprise people. Best of luck to you & enjoy.
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