997 2005-2012 911 C2, C2S, C4, C4S, GTS, Targa and Cabriolet Model Discussion.

Intermediate camshaft bearing failures????

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Old 03-26-2012, 02:15 PM
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Unhappy Intermediate camshaft bearing failures????

A mechanic friend of mine just called and said they've been seeing more of these issues lately for the '07 and '08 years. The shaft bearing can give way and drop down, causing massive damage to the engine.

Has anyone heard of this?
 
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:41 PM
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I have not heard an increased occurrence in the '07 / '08 years, but Excellence magazine did an article a few months back about a tool which could save you tons of money and which I read with much interest.

Google 'IMS Guardian' and you will be able to read all you need to know about this solution (around $400).

I'm not linked to this company or product in any way, but if I were more paranoid, this looks like it would be money well spent.
 
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by D-squared
A mechanic friend of mine just called and said they've been seeing more of these issues lately for the '07 and '08 years. The shaft bearing can give way and drop down, causing massive damage to the engine.

Has anyone heard of this?
If you are new to this problem search IMS here and on Renn.
 
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:59 PM
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The online forums would be a lonely place if it wasn't for the dreaded IMS issues.
 
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gpjli
If you are new to this problem search IMS here and on Renn.
I've yet to hear of a single IMS failure in a post mid year '05 911. Does anyone have direct knowledge of an IMS failure in a post mid year 2005 911?

I just had an oil analysis done By Titan here in Denver before starting my supercharger install. Nothing abnormal in my '07.

As a cheaper alternative to the guardian, they make magnetic drain plugs that are supposed to collect shavings, so while not perfect, if you change your oil annually, you would have knowledge of shavings accumulating in the pan.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:03 AM
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I have #379 production unit (mid year 2004) 2005 997.1 'exploding' C2S Launch Edition with 54K miles and no warranty. I'll update this post when the IMS goes.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkys
I have #379 production unit (mid year 2004) 2005 997.1 'exploding' C2S Launch Edition with 54K miles and no warranty. I'll update this post when the IMS goes.
I'm curious why you don't just do the IMS bearing swap just for peace of mind. In a way, that's better than having a later model because the bearing upgrade can be done, even though I haven't heard of a later model having an IMS bearing failure...
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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My Indy says they can 'upgrade' at anytime or when they need to replace the clutch, but my clutch typically last well over 150K miles. The IMS is fine. My Indy is reputable and they race a lot of Porsches. I have no warranty, and I can sleep at night. Besides, I saved enough money buying private party that I have an exploded engine fund. The risk of an IMS failure is low. But, I understand the value of preventative maintenance. Otherwise, I would have bought another Toyota. There is no free lunch.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DoninDEN
I'm curious why you don't just do the IMS bearing swap just for peace of mind. In a way, that's better than having a later model because the bearing upgrade can be done, even though I haven't heard of a later model having an IMS bearing failure...
Why don't surfers wear chainmail suits to protect from shark attacks? I mean, I'd probably need to do that for peace of mind, but I know I have a bit of an irrational fear of sharks. In all likelihood, we're dealing with a fail rate south of 1% (which is of course still unacceptable in a car like this) and as a purely economic matter, it doesn't make sense to spend ~$2000 to fend off a sub-1% risk of ~$20,000 worth of damage.

I put my money into an extended warranty instead. It covers a lot of more common problems and also gives me peace of mind for the bigger stuff. But I admire the guys who play the odds in much the same way I admire surfers or anyone else who can put irrational fears out of their heads and just do what they enjoy.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by D-squared
A mechanic friend of mine just called and said they've been seeing more of these issues lately for the '07 and '08 years. The shaft bearing can give way and drop down, causing massive damage to the engine.

Has anyone heard of this?
I'm assuming you're asking about IMS even though you said camshaft. Pretty good answers so far.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DoninDEN
I've yet to hear of a single IMS failure in a post mid year '05 911. Does anyone have direct knowledge of an IMS failure in a post mid year 2005 911?

I just had an oil analysis done By Titan here in Denver before starting my supercharger install. Nothing abnormal in my '07.

As a cheaper alternative to the guardian, they make magnetic drain plugs that are supposed to collect shavings, so while not perfect, if you change your oil annually, you would have knowledge of shavings accumulating in the pan.
Well not for you to lose sleep but there have been a few reports of post 05 failures. No, I have no "direct knowledge". Don't yell, do a search as suggested if your mechanic friend has you worried. Seems to me that since you are supercharging, long term reliability is not your greatest concern. That is probably a good attitude. Have fun.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkys
My Indy says they can 'upgrade' at anytime or when they need to replace the clutch, but my clutch typically last well over 150K miles. The IMS is fine. My Indy is reputable and they race a lot of Porsches. I have no warranty, and I can sleep at night. Besides, I saved enough money buying private party that I have an exploded engine fund. The risk of an IMS failure is low. But, I understand the value of preventative maintenance. Otherwise, I would have bought another Toyota. There is no free lunch.
IMS bearing on '07 requires engine tear down to replace as the bearing is designed with it's internal diameter larger than the bearing race in the engine. It can not be pulled out from the outside of the engine. Easiest way to check for potential disaster is to dissect the oil filter at every oil change looking for metal and plastic bits. With that said the issue is really just a " monster in the closet ".
Had no issues with my 7 1/2 yr old Boxster and none with my 5 yr old 997.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkys
I have #379 production unit (mid year 2004) 2005 997.1 'exploding' C2S Launch Edition with 54K miles and no warranty. I'll update this post when the IMS goes.
I also have an early build '05 997.1 and my ticking time bomb hasn't yet exploded either. 72K miles and going! My indy in both VA and now in NY told me this "problem" is overblown and neither had seen or heard of more than a handful collectively within their regions. My current indy looks at me like I'm crazy since I talk about it every single time my car goes into the shop as we diligently check magnetic drain plugs, cut apart oil filters, do oil analysis, etc.

So I guess I'll report back when I blow up too. Still haven't needed clutch replacement, so I guess I'll do the retrofit then.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DoninDEN
I'm curious why you don't just do the IMS bearing swap just for peace of mind. In a way, that's better than having a later model because the bearing upgrade can be done, even though I haven't heard of a later model having an IMS bearing failure...
The IMS swap is NOT a permant fix. If you read they will tell you in will need to be replace again as it is a wear item. IIRC it was every 50k miles.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by function12
The IMS swap is NOT a permant fix. If you read they will tell you in will need to be replace again as it is a wear item. IIRC it was every 50k miles.
Additionally, it's no panacea as they have experienced failures w/ their units too. (I'm sure they'll chime in now too... )

Out of [conservatively] many hundreds of M96/M97 owners I've met/known, there have been less than a handful who had an IMS issue. Personally I've had none w/ my 10yr old Boxster nor my 5 year old 997.

Bottom line, yes there have been some issues but not nearly to the extent the gorilla marketing/marketers behind the "upgrades" want you to believe...

Good luck
 


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