Good job!!

 

Wow, is that pretty much plug and play?

 

Hey, nice, thanks for posting photos!

One word of caution. The signal going to the factory tweeters is shared with the midrange (i.e. crossed over at a lower frequency). The factory tweeter has a built-in high-pass crossover (the capacitor on the side), and I notice you did not include one when you spliced in the Focal tweeter.

This may be okay in the short term. In a worst case scenario, you will damage the tweeter if you turn up the stereo too much (too much power at frequencies the tweeter can't handle). In a best case scenario, you're degrading the tweeter sound quality by driving frequencies below the range where the tweeter sounds good (particularly not filtering out the resonance frequency). A cheap solution is simply to add a series capacitor that approximates the desired crossover frequency for the tweeter.

But if you like the way it sounds, no worries (especially if this is just temporary).

 

I've read your other threads, I know you know what you are talking about! How about adding one of these with a simple cross over? Or, even though this tweeter will be a bit overdriven, it probably handles the output from the stock system anyway?
Seems that another alternative would be to disconnect these and move to a good 2way in the door instead of the mid and then improve the larger door driver as well. Bigger question is compatibility with the Bose. Can you really drop in a tweeter with "normal" impedance?

 

I actually note that Focal INT series has built in high pass filters. These are $100 at Crutchfield. I haven't shopped much for these, but it seems there are a number of tweeters available with built in cross overs.

Did you silicon the tweeters into place? How did you secure them?

 

I'm glad you mentioned the crossover for others wanting to simply change out the tweeters. That should be fairly easy to do. For me this is super temporary, and I have been listening more to my gundo mod than the stereo anyway, at least until I get the whole thing set up.

I didn't silicon them in yet but I plan to do that. After I dynamat my doors I was going to cut a snippet off and put them under the tweeters and seal them then. They are pretty tight in there as it is.

I'm not in a particular hurry, and plan on getting the wires laid out and the double din in this weekend. If I don't have time to set up the amp I'll wait on those, and just listen to my engine instead.

I have to solder the speaker wires to the adapter I got to plug into the bose wiring to the speakers. There are some other wires on there that aren't speaker wires, I have to find out what they go to. I am assuming the subwoofer, but I don't know about the rest. There are three sets of wires plugged into the bose system, the big one is the speaker wire ensemble, but there are also two smaller plug ins that are a mystery for now. I'm looking online for a schematic now.

 

I forgot that I have a partial schematic that came with the adapter kit. Now I se e what you mean about the tweeter sharing the signal with the mids, they are simply wired in with the mids; the bass, rears and subs are separate. I have the Jl ms-8 processor, will I need to add a crossover for the tweeters if I use the active processor? I am assuming that by keeping the stock wiring but replacing everything else I would need a crossover for the tweeters if I did NOT use the JL ms-8 processor?

 

Sure, you "could." A simple series capacitor (=1st order HP = 6db/oct) can improve power handling, but it doesn't mean it will sound good. First of all, there's no guarantee the tweeter will be level-matched with the midrange (so you'd need an adjustable attenuator, or I guess you could play with the EQ.) Secondly, tweeters have a resonance freq that sounds harsh/terrible and usually requires a steeper crossover than 6db/oct to properly filter it. Adding a simple capacitor (6db/oct) is dirt cheap and simple but it in most cases, it won't sound the best either. Of course, if you're simply swapping out a stock tweeter with a capacitor crossover, you'll probably notice an improvement.

You, can, as long as the voltage sensitivity is similar (example: 90db/2.83V). HOWEVER, the speaker-level signals going to the woofer and the mid in the door will already be crossed over. So you'd be stuck using the stock active crossover frequencies for a woofer+mid to a woofer+tweeter. You could do it. It may not sound good.

Might actually be a cheap upgrade over the stock system.

You may want to consider not making them too permanent in case you want to upgrade later.

I would suggest crimping instead of soldering. Here were the notes I took for the wiring (but definitely double-check cuz my car might be different).

+Front L Mid/Tweeter - White/Black (-) and White/White (+)
+Front R Mid/Tweeter - Gray/Black (-) and Gray/Gray (+)
+Front L Low - White/Brown (-) and White/Red (+)
+Front R Low - Gray/Brown (-) and Gray/Red (+)
Center - Blue/Black (-) and Blue/Blue (+)
Sub - Orange/Brown (-) and Orange/Orange (+)

“switched output, amplifier” - White/Red
“diagnostics” - another white/red
“sound acquisition microphone” - Red/Brown (-) and Red/Red (+)

R rear purple/purple black
L rear green/green black

Yes and no. If you're wiring the mids and tweets onto a single MS-8 and amplifier channel, then you can use the passive crossovers from the component set. In your case, since you've mixed/matched, you should run the mids/tweeters on separate MS-8 and amplifier channels and use the MS-8 active crossovers.

I also highly recommend a series capacitor for the tweeters for ANY actively crossed over system (i.e. amps directly to tweeters), just in case there's a turn on thump, loose remote wire, you miswire a bass output to the tweeter, etc. (lots of reasons). Any of those things will blow your tweeter super fast. So stick a capacitor in there with a target freq of ~1khz matched to your tweeter's impedance.

 

Thanks, I can see you are willing to be of immense help, certainly appreciated!!

A few questions, one, do I need to keep these:


“diagnostics” - another white/red
“sound acquisition microphone” - Red/Brown (-) and Red/Red (+)


I see that having the tweeter and mids sharing the same signal is an issue. Do I have to run a separate set of speaker wires? I was hoping not to have to mess with the stock wiring just because it would be a pain to run new wires. I do have passive crossovers with the set, but they are big so it can't go in the dash, and I don't know if they would fit in the door.

When I got my Focals I got a steal of a deal, but as both midrange and the woofer are both 6.5 inches I knew I would have to choose one or the other. I picked them up used for a few hundred, and new set would be a couple of thousand so I figured I did well enough even leaving one part out. I checked the serial number and the company verified the set.

I have a mmats midrange that should fit in the door so I was going to use that with the focal woofer. Should I just skip the small midrange in the door and use the focal midrange in the woofer spot, using the subwoofer to pick up the woofer range and that would allow the tweeters to have their own full signal from the processor? I have the box made for the jl 8inch subwoofers that fits even on top of the stock sub, should I just put the focal woofers there and use the stock subwoofer? I'm kind of at a stuck what should I do spot.

Also, is the tweeter cap for protection something I can grab from radio shack?

 

Yeah, I was responding to your other thread too, dude.

I don't think you do. If you're bypassing the Bose amp completely, than probably not.

In almost all cases, yes, no way around it. You can use the existing wiring for one drive, but you'll need to run a second line for the second driver. The only way around this is to stick the woof/mid LP/HP passive crossover in the door. But if you're not using a woof/mid matched as part of a component set, you can't use a passive without designing a custom one.

It's a huge pain, I agree. That's why I had an installer do this part for me.

You can't use passives with drivers that they weren't designed for. Well you could, but it probably wouldn't sound right, unless you got very lucky or you're not looking for high-end sound.

Like I recommended in your other thread, if you want to run a 3-way with a mismatched midrange, then you should run the 6-channel active and use the MS-8 as the active crossover. You probably would not want to run a 2-way with the focal mid in the woofer spot, because midranges are not designed to produce midbass and you will definitely need a midbass/woofer driver somewhere, and there's nowhere really to mount one on the left (i.e. footwell).

If you don't want to run additional wires to the doors, you can run a 2-way system with the focal tweeter where you have it and the woofer in the doors, then use the MS-8 as an active crossover. The benefit of the midrange is a higher perceived soundstage and better frequency response from about 1-4k where the woofer off-axis response is poor and the tweeter can't play down to. But you don't HAVE to have a midrange if your tweeter is capable of doing down to 1-2khz (with a steep crossover, like 4th order).

Don't use the subwoofer to play midbass (80-100hz and up). It'll sound terrible.

oh no please don't. The focal woofers are designed to be your midbass drivers, and absolutely must be in the front of the car.

You can check, they may not have the specific size you want. Here's a good article:
http://www.carsound.com/columns/clark/clrk0012.shtml
Electrolytics are the cheapest type. I would recommend the Dayton audio polypropylenes from Parts Express, they're a pretty good deal.

 

You've been a great help all along, I was just giving more props in this new thread! I figured the other thread was no mas.

I think for now I'll go with tweeters, no midrange yet, and the midbass in the doors, subs in the back. I found online some k2 midranges that will fit, I just don't have the budget at the moment, refinancing the mortgage. Once I get the proper midranges later, I'll run new wires, the proper midrange that is part of this component set. Either that or sell this set entirely and get a whole new one later. I'm always upgrading and tweaking things anyway.

I've used parts express plenty and that's a great idea for the caps. I'll order those pronto.

Do you recommend or is there a real benefit to the large Capacitors from the battery? The only thing I've seen is that it helps with lights dimming etc but nothing about sound. In a home amp it gives a much more high current which does help with sound. Just wondering for the future.

Thanks for all the invaluable info, I'll have plenty more questions as I continue!

 

In the other thread, you mentioned the center would help center the soundstage for the passenger. Running the system with these components, would there be much advantege in still using the stock center or rears? For now I intend on bypassing them as they aren't great quality, and it would provide more power for the speakers I am using. But in the future once I put the midranges in, it may be something I consider if there is value in using a center and rears.

The center is small, and the rears are also small. It looks like a 2 or 3 inch driver with a tiny tweeter next to it in the rear. I couldn't fit anything big there anyway but just wanted to know your thoughts.

 

This is a really fascinating thread to me as Ive thought about these possibilities for a long time, but never researched anything. I was pretty surprised to see what is available. The below may be better than the Bose system deserves, but it is interesting nonetheless.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SPR1...TW.html?tp=107

Not only is there a selection of tweeters with outboard crossovers, but also with adjustable levels. Obviously the aftermarket is well tuned to know that these components need to be tuned to the application. Of course, you've pointed out that sensitivity must be matched, which is either going to be a crap shoot or hopefully info that can be learned by some and shared with others. Unless you happened to know the sensitivity of the stock Bose equipment.

After the tweeters, I'm anxious to move right to the doors and look to see what can be applied there. (I don't have any idea of the sizes of the drivers or the depths.) Seems that the crossovers are already fed to these wires from the Bose amp, but speakers of the appropriate sizes should have similar frequency responses that would benefit from the same crossovers frequencies. One would need to find the right size, mounting depth, be sure impedence is greater than 1 ohm and see that the drivers have the right sensitivity (and be sure it is adjustable for fine tuning).

Please let me know how I might improve the approach.

 

Ok, it's killing me! How do you pop the door panel covers? I presume from the top edge towards the door hinge. I'm dying to check out what would fit in the space!

 

Neat. These might be sweet upgrades for people who don't want to touch anything else. You guys might be on to something. It'll be the gundo hack of there stereo system.

Ah, well if the add-on tweeters come with adjustable attenuators, then the tweeter sensitivity doesn't have to match the old ones. They only need to be MORE sensitive, since you're able to reduce their level.

It depends on how picky you are about the sound quality. If you have a bunch of Stereophile Class A components in your living room, then you're going to want some high-end components, big sub and replace the head unit and amps. And you'll want to tune with with a processor and measuring equipment.

If you want a mid-level upgrade, I would spend most of your budget on the speakers and sub, and stick in an MS-8 or other integration processor along with a cheap multichannel amp, leaving the factory HU and amp.

I think the absolute cheapest way to substantially improve the sound would be to add just 2 or 3-way components + an MS-8, which will flatten the factory curve and re-EQ to your cabin using a mic. It also has a built-in amplifier (but it's pretty basic).

If you just want to swap out the speakers and nothing else, you risk making it sound a lot worse. The cheapo Bose drivers are already equalized to the cabin response by the Bose amp (active EQ), so they at least sound presentable. You can get away with a tweeter replacement, but it's a serious crap shoot if you start replacing anything else.