Help!! How to drive a manual?
#19
06-30-2013, 11:07 AM
if i keep it around 1500rev, it moves very slowly. how can i start the car very quickly? ( i know how to do it in an automatic, which is floor the gas. But in a manual, i think that will ruin the clutch.
also, since i have to turn the corner at 5km/h, my engine will stall at that speed on second gear, meanwhile i cannot shift to first gear. what should I do? I am confused
also, since i have to turn the corner at 5km/h, my engine will stall at that speed on second gear, meanwhile i cannot shift to first gear. what should I do? I am confused
This will reduce the wear on the clutch. Then you accelerate with the gas not he clutch. After you get that down pat so you don't stall anymore and you can takeoff in hills without burning up the clutch then you can work on a quicker launch. Personally, I never launch. I can pretty much get the clutch out without even touching the gas pedal and then once it's out I take off.
Then, down the road you'll need to learn how to rev match down shift, heel to toe downshifting.
Good luck and just consider the first clutch job a badge of honor.
You could join the local PCA and see if someone from the club would help you out.
#20
06-30-2013, 11:33 AM
Yikes!!! Go to your local car rental place ASAP and request a manual car!!! Drive it for a week before you TOUCH your Porsche again!! After reading what you wrote, I do sympathize and am glad you were man enough to come here and ask, but it sounds like you may be damaging your car....
Based on what you wrote, you don't just not know how to drive manual. You don't understand the concept. There is no "correct" gear to shift when in turns... It all depends on current speeds and traffic conditions.
Do you have a friend who drives stick and can help you out? I learned from my parents who had sports cars through my child hood and let me tell you, the 997 is EASY to drive compared to other manuals. Like you said, lets get you up and driving asap!
Based on what you wrote, you don't just not know how to drive manual. You don't understand the concept. There is no "correct" gear to shift when in turns... It all depends on current speeds and traffic conditions.
Do you have a friend who drives stick and can help you out? I learned from my parents who had sports cars through my child hood and let me tell you, the 997 is EASY to drive compared to other manuals. Like you said, lets get you up and driving asap!
#21
06-30-2013, 10:16 PM
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: toronto
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0 
The key is to get he clutch out as fast as possible with the lowest rpms possible.
This will reduce the wear on the clutch. Then you accelerate with the gas not he clutch. After you get that down pat so you don't stall anymore and you can takeoff in hills without burning up the clutch then you can work on a quicker launch. Personally, I never launch. I can pretty much get the clutch out without even touching the gas pedal and then once it's out I take off.
Then, down the road you'll need to learn how to rev match down shift, heel to toe downshifting.
Good luck and just consider the first clutch job a badge of honor.
You could join the local PCA and see if someone from the club would help you out.
This will reduce the wear on the clutch. Then you accelerate with the gas not he clutch. After you get that down pat so you don't stall anymore and you can takeoff in hills without burning up the clutch then you can work on a quicker launch. Personally, I never launch. I can pretty much get the clutch out without even touching the gas pedal and then once it's out I take off.
Then, down the road you'll need to learn how to rev match down shift, heel to toe downshifting.
Good luck and just consider the first clutch job a badge of honor.
You could join the local PCA and see if someone from the club would help you out.
what is the key of letting the clutch out fast without damaging the car?
And how to let the clutch without even touching the gas pedal?
#22
06-30-2013, 10:36 PM
Find a flat empty parking lot and practice just letting out the clutch as slowly as possible without the gas. You'll get a feeling for when it starts to grab. Once you have that down, then try revving the engine to 1000 and repeat. Eventually you'll get to where ou just feel it and know when to add gas to compensate for inclines or increased speed.
Then move on to a slight inclined spot.
It's a balancing act. But if you just want to launch quickly without the basic concepts down you'll just burn out the clutch. Take your time and learn correctly.
Then move on to a slight inclined spot.
It's a balancing act. But if you just want to launch quickly without the basic concepts down you'll just burn out the clutch. Take your time and learn correctly.
#26
07-01-2013, 07:36 AM
So as you can tell there are lots of people that think learning on a 911 is a bad idea...I happen to agree with them. The biggest issues are the power the engine makes and how stiff the clutch is. To explain, with a less powerful car the engine wont have such a big impact as the RPM increase. This make it easier to not jerk from a stand still when you are still learning. As well, on cheaper cars the clutch tends to be much easier to push in (IE not as stiff). This sounds stupid but with a "lighter" clutch its less tedious to learn on.
Please keep in mind that you are learning on a clutch that will cost you roughly $2,000 USD to replace. And doing a lot of higher reving while you are letting the clutch out slowly (this is how you learn) is very bad for it. I too would suggest finding someone with a cheap car to practice on.
I have taught three people how to drive a stick. All went well until the fourth person. And let me tell you he over thought everything. Thinking he should know how to do it and ended up getting very frustrated. He was also the only one to learn on my 911. I attribute a lot of his trouble to having a car that is just too powerful.
So here is my advice if you can't get/find a cheap car to learn on...
Find a flat parking lot. Wide open spaces is a must. Make sure there is nothing around that you can hit or will need to avoid quickly. The two hardest things to learn is starting and stopping. Hill starts are by far the hardest so avoid them at all cost for now. You need to remember that the clutch is what allows the power to transfer from the engine to the wheels. Anytime that you feel as though the car is not moving properly (bucking, jerking, sputtering) just push in the clutch and bit the brake. NEVER release the clutch when you are in gear and dont plan on trying to start moving again. This is a huge pain point for people. They get frustrated and just let out the clutch after stopping but dont take it out of gear. Then the car jump and you stall and freak out.
You need to learn how the current RPM on the engine while stopped and not in gear translates to the clutch and when you are in gear. Get a good feel for how the engine spins up. No reason to rev it to death. But spend some time getting used to reving the engine while parked. This way you will understand how quickly RPM change. Try to move the revs around in a controlled manner. Move from 1500 RPM to 2000 RPM and back again without jerking the needle all over the place. Maybe go from 1000 RPM to 1750. The more understanding you have about how the engine responds and how little throttle inputs can drastically change RPM the better you will be. Next push in the clutch and put it in gear. Completely let go of the brake (this is why you need to be on a flat surface). Essentially with the clutch pushed down you are in the same state as you were when the car was parked and out of gear. The engine will willing rev as much as you like. And now the hard part. Put it into first gear and and rev up to about 1500 RPM. Now with plenty of running space in front of you (as much as possible with nothing to hit on either side) slowly let out the clutch. VERY SLOW. Keep the car right at 1500 RPM. If you are having trouble with that go back to step one of learning how easily the RPM move around. You will notice that as you let out the clutch slowly the RPM will start to drop even though your foot has not let off the gas pedal. This is a good thing. That is where your clutch starts to catch. As you let more of the clutch out it will catch more and the car will move. Avoid punching the gas when the RPM start to drop. This will cause a huge spike in power which will only lurch the car and scare you. Do your best to keep it at no higher than 1500 rpm. It is fine to stare at your tach while doing this. This is another reason you need to be sure you are safe from things to hit. You will spend a lot of time early on looking at the tach. And as you get better and you can hear the engine and know what RPM you are at the less you will look at it. You will need to practice this more than anything else when driving a stick. Learn to feel the clutch catch point. The position your foot is in on the clutch (ie how far in/out it is) and the position of the gas pedal. As the clutch bites more and more you will need to give more throttle in very small amounts to keep it at 1500 RPM. Slow and stead on both the clutch and the gas are the key to learn. Do not worry about going fast. Fast is bad for the clutch and your wallet when you dont know what you are doing for the basics. Its like trying to hit a home run before you know the mechanics of swinging a bat properly. Practice this over and over and over and over and over and over. Yes its that important. There is no reason to shift into second gear at all until you can start and stop without issue. The key to stopping is to remember to always take it out of gear before you let go of the brake. Do not just go from moving to stopped with the clutch in and straight back to moving again. This will not reinforce that you need to always remember to let out the clutch and not be in gear when stopped.
Please keep in mind that you are learning on a clutch that will cost you roughly $2,000 USD to replace. And doing a lot of higher reving while you are letting the clutch out slowly (this is how you learn) is very bad for it. I too would suggest finding someone with a cheap car to practice on.
I have taught three people how to drive a stick. All went well until the fourth person. And let me tell you he over thought everything. Thinking he should know how to do it and ended up getting very frustrated. He was also the only one to learn on my 911. I attribute a lot of his trouble to having a car that is just too powerful.
So here is my advice if you can't get/find a cheap car to learn on...
Find a flat parking lot. Wide open spaces is a must. Make sure there is nothing around that you can hit or will need to avoid quickly. The two hardest things to learn is starting and stopping. Hill starts are by far the hardest so avoid them at all cost for now. You need to remember that the clutch is what allows the power to transfer from the engine to the wheels. Anytime that you feel as though the car is not moving properly (bucking, jerking, sputtering) just push in the clutch and bit the brake. NEVER release the clutch when you are in gear and dont plan on trying to start moving again. This is a huge pain point for people. They get frustrated and just let out the clutch after stopping but dont take it out of gear. Then the car jump and you stall and freak out.
You need to learn how the current RPM on the engine while stopped and not in gear translates to the clutch and when you are in gear. Get a good feel for how the engine spins up. No reason to rev it to death. But spend some time getting used to reving the engine while parked. This way you will understand how quickly RPM change. Try to move the revs around in a controlled manner. Move from 1500 RPM to 2000 RPM and back again without jerking the needle all over the place. Maybe go from 1000 RPM to 1750. The more understanding you have about how the engine responds and how little throttle inputs can drastically change RPM the better you will be. Next push in the clutch and put it in gear. Completely let go of the brake (this is why you need to be on a flat surface). Essentially with the clutch pushed down you are in the same state as you were when the car was parked and out of gear. The engine will willing rev as much as you like. And now the hard part. Put it into first gear and and rev up to about 1500 RPM. Now with plenty of running space in front of you (as much as possible with nothing to hit on either side) slowly let out the clutch. VERY SLOW. Keep the car right at 1500 RPM. If you are having trouble with that go back to step one of learning how easily the RPM move around. You will notice that as you let out the clutch slowly the RPM will start to drop even though your foot has not let off the gas pedal. This is a good thing. That is where your clutch starts to catch. As you let more of the clutch out it will catch more and the car will move. Avoid punching the gas when the RPM start to drop. This will cause a huge spike in power which will only lurch the car and scare you. Do your best to keep it at no higher than 1500 rpm. It is fine to stare at your tach while doing this. This is another reason you need to be sure you are safe from things to hit. You will spend a lot of time early on looking at the tach. And as you get better and you can hear the engine and know what RPM you are at the less you will look at it. You will need to practice this more than anything else when driving a stick. Learn to feel the clutch catch point. The position your foot is in on the clutch (ie how far in/out it is) and the position of the gas pedal. As the clutch bites more and more you will need to give more throttle in very small amounts to keep it at 1500 RPM. Slow and stead on both the clutch and the gas are the key to learn. Do not worry about going fast. Fast is bad for the clutch and your wallet when you dont know what you are doing for the basics. Its like trying to hit a home run before you know the mechanics of swinging a bat properly. Practice this over and over and over and over and over and over. Yes its that important. There is no reason to shift into second gear at all until you can start and stop without issue. The key to stopping is to remember to always take it out of gear before you let go of the brake. Do not just go from moving to stopped with the clutch in and straight back to moving again. This will not reinforce that you need to always remember to let out the clutch and not be in gear when stopped.
Last edited by gloves; 07-01-2013 at 07:51 AM.
#27
07-01-2013, 08:10 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: near White Plains, NY
Posts: 94
Rep Power: 15
I don't want to sound pessimistic but it is a bad, bad, bad idea to drive a manual P-car without knowing how to drive manual.
Also, I suspect that you will not be able to learn sufficiently with a weekend drive or so.
Yes, you'll be able to move the car, but would risk all sort of troubles, from burned clutch, to moneyshift, uphill crashes, and other engine damaging conditions.
My wife has driven manual on inexpensive cars many times but never as a main/ daily drive. I thought she was good enough and entrusted my P-car. I saw what she did and I asked her to step out after less than 100 yards. Buy yourself a used toyota and drive it consistently for a few months on all sort of conditions (highway, country roads, local, traffic, importantly uphill roads practicing stop and go) then you get into your P-car and still be prudent.
Also, I suspect that you will not be able to learn sufficiently with a weekend drive or so.
Yes, you'll be able to move the car, but would risk all sort of troubles, from burned clutch, to moneyshift, uphill crashes, and other engine damaging conditions.
My wife has driven manual on inexpensive cars many times but never as a main/ daily drive. I thought she was good enough and entrusted my P-car. I saw what she did and I asked her to step out after less than 100 yards. Buy yourself a used toyota and drive it consistently for a few months on all sort of conditions (highway, country roads, local, traffic, importantly uphill roads practicing stop and go) then you get into your P-car and still be prudent.
#28
07-01-2013, 08:27 AM
Once you have a good understanding of how the clutch catches its time to move onto shifting up to second. Shifting up is the easiest part. Since you are already moving all you have to do it push in the clutch, move it from first to second gear. And as you let out the clutch you can feel it catch and feather in the gas. Its just like starting only easier. I wouldn't go beyond second for now. So go ahead and push in the clutch and hit the brake. When you come to a stop pull it out of second and into neutral. No reason to shift into first. As a few others have said there is no reason to shift to first when you are still moving. At least not when you are still learning. This will further reinforce starting and stopping.
What RPM to shift at is also a big question. For a starter I would not suggest going above 3000 RPM before you shift. The car has way to much power past that. You will also notice that if you shift to far below that (under 2200 RPM) the engine will seem to struggle to move even under lots of throttle after the gear switch. This is because after shifting from first the second the RPM will drop. This is what allows you to go faster in each gear. The ratio changes meaning the RPM will go down. This will be most drastic between first and second, and then second and third. If you shift too early in the RPM range the drop from gear to gear to bring the RPM below the power band for the newly selected gear.
You can get all the way into third once you are comfortable with starting and stopping and going from first to second. This should get you around town easily. 4th will rarely be used as third gear will get you up to 30MPH easily. But once you leave the safety of the parking lot you will need to know how to down shift. This is almost as simple and up-shifting.
As you brake and slow down the car will go slower and the RPM will drop. Once you are below 2000 RPM and approaching 1500 you will want to change down a gear. I would suggest learning to down shift while coasting, IE not hitting the brake in third gear. This way you dont have to worry about braking and switching gears at the same time. Once again this is why you need a big parking lot. If you need to stop for any reason push in the clutch and the brake at the same time. Once stopped take it out of gear before you let go of the brake. Then start the process all over again to get back up to third. You will notice that you can shift well before 3000 RPM into the next gear. So don't be too worried about how fast you are going in third.
When in third gear and slowing down push in the clutch, this will completely drop the RPM to idle (about 800-900 rpm). Move the gear shifter from 3rd to 2nd and then slowly let the clutch out. As you do so you will notice that as it catches the tach will kick back up and RPM will increase. This is because the clutch is re-engaging and catching again. Ideally you would want to minimize the amount of time go from gear to gear while downshift or up-shifting. The less time the drive shaft spends getting up to speed while the clutch is engaging the better. This is where rev matching and heel toe shifting comes in. That is way too advanced for a starter so don't even thing about that right now.
What RPM to shift at is also a big question. For a starter I would not suggest going above 3000 RPM before you shift. The car has way to much power past that. You will also notice that if you shift to far below that (under 2200 RPM) the engine will seem to struggle to move even under lots of throttle after the gear switch. This is because after shifting from first the second the RPM will drop. This is what allows you to go faster in each gear. The ratio changes meaning the RPM will go down. This will be most drastic between first and second, and then second and third. If you shift too early in the RPM range the drop from gear to gear to bring the RPM below the power band for the newly selected gear.
You can get all the way into third once you are comfortable with starting and stopping and going from first to second. This should get you around town easily. 4th will rarely be used as third gear will get you up to 30MPH easily. But once you leave the safety of the parking lot you will need to know how to down shift. This is almost as simple and up-shifting.
As you brake and slow down the car will go slower and the RPM will drop. Once you are below 2000 RPM and approaching 1500 you will want to change down a gear. I would suggest learning to down shift while coasting, IE not hitting the brake in third gear. This way you dont have to worry about braking and switching gears at the same time. Once again this is why you need a big parking lot. If you need to stop for any reason push in the clutch and the brake at the same time. Once stopped take it out of gear before you let go of the brake. Then start the process all over again to get back up to third. You will notice that you can shift well before 3000 RPM into the next gear. So don't be too worried about how fast you are going in third.
When in third gear and slowing down push in the clutch, this will completely drop the RPM to idle (about 800-900 rpm). Move the gear shifter from 3rd to 2nd and then slowly let the clutch out. As you do so you will notice that as it catches the tach will kick back up and RPM will increase. This is because the clutch is re-engaging and catching again. Ideally you would want to minimize the amount of time go from gear to gear while downshift or up-shifting. The less time the drive shaft spends getting up to speed while the clutch is engaging the better. This is where rev matching and heel toe shifting comes in. That is way too advanced for a starter so don't even thing about that right now.
#29
07-01-2013, 09:08 AM
There is a big difference between an automatic & manual transmission; especially in a p-car where the power can get you in trouble real quick!
There are so many more nuances to driving with a manual that a certain level of experience is needed to extract maximum performance.
There are so many more nuances to driving with a manual that a certain level of experience is needed to extract maximum performance.
#30
07-01-2013, 09:16 AM
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: toronto
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0 Once you have a good understanding of how the clutch catches its time to move onto shifting up to second. Shifting up is the easiest part. Since you are already moving all you have to do it push in the clutch, move it from first to second gear. And as you let out the clutch you can feel it catch and feather in the gas. Its just like starting only easier. I wouldn't go beyond second for now. So go ahead and push in the clutch and hit the brake. When you come to a stop pull it out of second and into neutral. No reason to shift into first. As a few others have said there is no reason to shift to first when you are still moving. At least not when you are still learning. This will further reinforce starting and stopping.
What RPM to shift at is also a big question. For a starter I would not suggest going above 3000 RPM before you shift. The car has way to much power past that. You will also notice that if you shift to far below that (under 2200 RPM) the engine will seem to struggle to move even under lots of throttle after the gear switch. This is because after shifting from first the second the RPM will drop. This is what allows you to go faster in each gear. The ratio changes meaning the RPM will go down. This will be most drastic between first and second, and then second and third. If you shift too early in the RPM range the drop from gear to gear to bring the RPM below the power band for the newly selected gear.
You can get all the way into third once you are comfortable with starting and stopping and going from first to second. This should get you around town easily. 4th will rarely be used as third gear will get you up to 30MPH easily. But once you leave the safety of the parking lot you will need to know how to down shift. This is almost as simple and up-shifting.
As you brake and slow down the car will go slower and the RPM will drop. Once you are below 2000 RPM and approaching 1500 you will want to change down a gear. I would suggest learning to down shift while coasting, IE not hitting the brake in third gear. This way you dont have to worry about braking and switching gears at the same time. Once again this is why you need a big parking lot. If you need to stop for any reason push in the clutch and the brake at the same time. Once stopped take it out of gear before you let go of the brake. Then start the process all over again to get back up to third. You will notice that you can shift well before 3000 RPM into the next gear. So don't be too worried about how fast you are going in third.
When in third gear and slowing down push in the clutch, this will completely drop the RPM to idle (about 800-900 rpm). Move the gear shifter from 3rd to 2nd and then slowly let the clutch out. As you do so you will notice that as it catches the tach will kick back up and RPM will increase. This is because the clutch is re-engaging and catching again. Ideally you would want to minimize the amount of time go from gear to gear while downshift or up-shifting. The less time the drive shaft spends getting up to speed while the clutch is engaging the better. This is where rev matching and heel toe shifting comes in. That is way too advanced for a starter so don't even thing about that right now.
What RPM to shift at is also a big question. For a starter I would not suggest going above 3000 RPM before you shift. The car has way to much power past that. You will also notice that if you shift to far below that (under 2200 RPM) the engine will seem to struggle to move even under lots of throttle after the gear switch. This is because after shifting from first the second the RPM will drop. This is what allows you to go faster in each gear. The ratio changes meaning the RPM will go down. This will be most drastic between first and second, and then second and third. If you shift too early in the RPM range the drop from gear to gear to bring the RPM below the power band for the newly selected gear.
You can get all the way into third once you are comfortable with starting and stopping and going from first to second. This should get you around town easily. 4th will rarely be used as third gear will get you up to 30MPH easily. But once you leave the safety of the parking lot you will need to know how to down shift. This is almost as simple and up-shifting.
As you brake and slow down the car will go slower and the RPM will drop. Once you are below 2000 RPM and approaching 1500 you will want to change down a gear. I would suggest learning to down shift while coasting, IE not hitting the brake in third gear. This way you dont have to worry about braking and switching gears at the same time. Once again this is why you need a big parking lot. If you need to stop for any reason push in the clutch and the brake at the same time. Once stopped take it out of gear before you let go of the brake. Then start the process all over again to get back up to third. You will notice that you can shift well before 3000 RPM into the next gear. So don't be too worried about how fast you are going in third.
When in third gear and slowing down push in the clutch, this will completely drop the RPM to idle (about 800-900 rpm). Move the gear shifter from 3rd to 2nd and then slowly let the clutch out. As you do so you will notice that as it catches the tach will kick back up and RPM will increase. This is because the clutch is re-engaging and catching again. Ideally you would want to minimize the amount of time go from gear to gear while downshift or up-shifting. The less time the drive shaft spends getting up to speed while the clutch is engaging the better. This is where rev matching and heel toe shifting comes in. That is way too advanced for a starter so don't even thing about that right now.