Very interesting and informative thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.

 

Conrad,
I was about to pull the trigger and order the speakers, but... those tweeters are aluminum domes no? Aren't they a bit too bright?

This is an interesting question because it gets into audio tastes. I will be flat out honest with you, I am not interested in tizzy, bright highs. I love a warm accurate sound particularly in a car environment where I emotionally react to brightness... it puts me on edge.

Any comment about these tweeters compared to the stock Bose setup?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

Not at all. However they are nicely detailed, much more than the Bose tweeters which are garbage. However the setup is not fatiguing at all, even at high volumes.

 

OK, I pulled the trigger on eBay, an LA vendor WoofersEtc. had the stuff.

1 pair Focal IS-200 8" woofers with tweeters
2 pair Focal 100CVX 4" coaxials

Total is $530

So Conrad, you put an additional tweeter in the center? I believe WooferEtc sold a pair of them separately... maybe someone reading this will split a set?

Thanx for you help.....

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

Good idea, that's what I did with cab. We split a tweeter set. Quite a deal on the set. The 100s are a huge bargain. That's about what I paid.
Post your review of the results!

Oh, I purchased from WoofersEtc. Sent back the speakers and had no issues with the return. Good vendor.

 

I just finished the rear speakers. I will do the doors next weekend, I just don't have enough Ibuprofen to do the rest.

I could not find ABS stock.... I went to Home Depot, Michael's and a basic hardware store. There are no classic hobby stores near me. So..... I had a Bushnell spotting scope case I never used so I cut it up. It was made of some sort of woodish-epoxy thing that worked very well.

I used ribbons of silicon glue to seal it up a bit and prevent any buzzing that may occur over time.

It was a real pain but a good excuse to by a Dremel. Home Depot was out of their popular powered unit so I had to by th3 $99 model with some attachments I will probably never use. I think battery operated tools are really to be avoided.

Thanx Conrad for the thread... its length is testament to a deep dissatisfaction with the Bose system and the quality of your report.

Last request (maybe), describe that woofer spacing ring. I pruchased the 8" Focal woofer with tweeter you recommended.... Do I still need that and if so, what materials.... etc etc...

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

Simple source of the ABS stock is the huge car audio supplier, Crutchfield. And if you get anything you don't like or can't use, you send it back to them - great return policy. Also certified dealer for Focal and they will discount heavily when items are discontinued.

I bought my spacers from Shane at MDR. I believe the best is to use 3/4" MDF. The challenge is to drill the holes correctly. Use the factory spacers to line them up. Would be ideal to use a drill press. If you don't have them perfectly straight, the screws will not go in straight and you may cross thread them.

It's great to have a Dremel. Nothing beats it for certain jobs. I used the router piece to grind the extra clearance on the rear panels for the speaker tabs. Worked like a charm. You will need it to carefully cut off the housing on the Focal tweeters so they easily drop into the dash. No other tool would really work for that job.

 

Thanks Shane!

Would love to see some pics of the rear adapters.

The is 200s are a great choice, really not sure why Focal is not offering an 8" 2 component set in their line up anymore.

Hope you are drilling the holes in those adapter rings - without the holes it adds about an hour to the install time.

 

After discussing this speaker swap out with some very experienced audio installers they are recommending against it. The biggest problem they point out is that the Bose speakers are designed to run at 1 ohm and the Focal's 4 ohm's. They have stated this will ultimately burn out the factory amps and an expensive problem to return to stock. I also spoke to a Porsche car dealer that deals in all years and models of pristine Porsche's and his statement was the first thing they do before selling the cars is "rip out" all the aftermarket audio and return to stock.
I am a bit confused on what to do given this info.

 

I have logged over 8,000 miles running Focals --- and I play loud. So far, no issues with the amp burning out. If it burns out, I plan on either 1) going full custom and rip out the PCM or 2) a lot of factory BOSE amps are out there for sale inexpensively; I can always buy a replacement.

As for dealers, it is a known fact they want to resell used cars as "close and pristine" to factory specs. This is a normal practice not just for Porsche, but for all dealers. They want to represent "unmolested" vehicles.

Good luck.

p.s.,
I could not sleep last night, so I started to measure the back to see if I could build a bigger sub box to get sub-sonic bass.

 

Has anyone tested the OEM Bose speakers to confirm their impedance? I've heard all sorts of numbers bandied about.

 

Echoing cab83's comments.
I always thought running LOWER impedence speakers is more demanding on amplifiers. But I could be corrected on that. Interested to hear from an expert. One might also note that the Focal Integration series was specifically intended to be used as drop in OEM speaker replacements. I've heard of blowing out speakers 10X more than I've ever heard of a speaker burning out an amp. In fact, I've never heard of the latter.

Sorry, I tend to scoff a bit at "very experienced audio installers" recommending against it. What ARE they recommending? $2000 new head unit with crappy Bose speakers? I've heard that one. Or maybe $4000 new system is your only option??? It's unfortunate that these are the options the "experts" wish to recommend. Few audio installers are motivated by selling $500 in speakers and getting only $100 on an install.

Yep, I ripped my whole system out of my '08 when I traded it in. Installed the whole thing into my '11 with even better results because of the improved PCM and amp. Agreeing with cab83, if the amp burns out, I get another one cheap, or go the aftermarket head unit route.

Indeed, every mod has some risks. Biggest risk is probably damage to your interior panels in the process. Asian man apparently had that problem.

 

What happened with your install???

 

Some science..... someone has some bad numbers.

The Focal speaker I put in had a 4 ohm spec which is a car audio "standard"; I don't know what the impedance was of the Bose speaker but I doubt it was a lighter load like 8 ohm. (I had thought they were 4 ohm but I was mistaken.)

Ohmage, (aka impedance), is a measure of load (aka resistance). The way the nomenclature works is that a larger number of a speaker driver spec is easier for an amp to drive than a smaller number. So....... 16 ohm speakers are easy to drive, 8 less easy (this is the "standard" for consumer home audio), 4 ohm is less easier (this is the "standard" for car audio), and 2 ohm is a pretty killer load on an amp. So.... just from this, these numbers this guy/gal gave you are crap. An amp that can handle 1 ohm loads is one hell of a powerful amp and would probably weigh 50 lbs or so.

Another interesting feature of this specification is that if you hook up two speakers spec'd at 8 ohm load as a replacement for a single speaker spec'd at 4 ohm, you are not changing what the amp sees. 4ohm is double the load of 8 ohm.

An amp, in the amp ratings specs, do not spec how much load it cannot handle but you can get an idea as to how powerful (current not watts) the amp really is by comparing its watt output into two different ohm load numbers.... should the amp builder even spec this. Hint: if they do publish numbers into two different loads, they are proud of it. So...... if an amp puts out say 100 watts into 8 ohms load, it should put out 200 watts into a 4 ohm load, and if it is super powerful (current) it will put out 400 watts into a punishing 2 ohm load (all to keep the same equal "output"). As the load on an amp goes up (ohm on speaker goes down), the amp run hotter. Most amps, if not all, have thermo protection circuits that cut out the system if it gets too hot or sees a too difficult load.

What usually happens with lower priced, consumer amps, is that amps cannot put out the required doubling of watts when load is increased (ohm number is halved).... So.... if an amp is rated at 100 watts at 8 ohms load, it most likely will put out only say 150 watts at 4 ohm load but will start to run hotter and be stressed. So lets say you are replacing 8 ohm speakers with 4 ohm speakers... this means you doubled the load on the amp. If the amp is super powerful and therefore big and heavy, you will not hear a difference at least a difference caused by amplifier loading and power. However most low priced amps (Bose amps are low priced stuff) cannot double their watt outputs and therefore you will hear a reduction in volume, and or more distortion at high volumes. Oh, by the way, if you never turn your amps up "loud" and only play them softly, much of these problems with load will not matter.

Check out the amp specs for the super powerful (current) home amps here:
http://www.krellonline.com/stereo-amps.html just go down and check out "output power" and you will see a doubling of watt output for a doubling (lowering ohm) of load.

So...... if that Bose amp can handle a 1 ohm load... and I know it cannot no way handle this just from seeing the amp's diminutive size, it certainly can handle just about any speaker driver built for car audio. If that amp can handle a 1 ohm load, you will never have to worry about what you put in there.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

Haha my wife made me promise not to spend any more money on the car until I get a spare set of wheels and tires out of here.