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997.2 base C2 - a completely different lowering question
at least I think so...
After a LOT of searching I could not find the following scenario considered or questioned.
First the logic (or potential ignorance) behind my question
I have a 997.2 C2 NON PASM which as far as I can tell is 10mm higher than the S cars which all have PASM (in the US).
I was looking at TechArt springs (20mm drop for NON PASM vehicles), but recently after installing spacers (5mm front and 8mm rear) and having the wheels refinished, I was thinking that a 10mm drop may be sufficient.
This got me wondering about the option of getting the C2S PASM OEM springs, to achieve a 10mm drop. I do understand that the height and rates will affect the feel, but the fact that TechArt uses the same spring for both the PASM and NON PASM vehicles got me thinking that using the same logic the C2S PASM spring may work just as well on a NON PASM vehicle.
If I've missed something obvious in the above "theory", please hold back the flames Hoping I can also help someone else in future who may have the same question.
I was also thinking about upgrading the shocks at the same time to BilStein B6 HD as I do feel the suspension is not as "tight" or responsive as I'd like, using the Panamera as a somewhat less than ideal comparison.
First off... very very clean car right there! if you are as picky with your suspension setup as you are with your cleaning, my vote is for a set of coil overs. springs/shock setups are fine and all, but your comments about mm,etc, points to coils... youll be much happier imo with coils, unless not interested in the expense.
yes, it will cost you 2.5x's the coin. what say you?
I would think that the oem PASM springs would give you the 10mm you are after but what usually happens is, you end up wanting a bit more Stance. If you can stand to spend the money don't waste time, just get the coilovers. You will enjoy your car so much more.
Well, as I understand the 10mm drop will be due to the PASM system which has nothing to do with the springs themselves. The PASM system lowers the car 10mm when activated from the console, which makes the car more responsive, opens the muffler to get better sound, and lowers 10mm depending on the combination setting. I hope that makes sense? In regards of lowering a C2 without braking the bank is to get lowering springs, which opens a Pandora's box! What brand? how mush do they lower the car? et cetera. you know where I am going with this. I recently installed Eibach pro springs on my 997.1 C2 and my experience with them so far is superb. I bought for about $300 shipped from somewhere online (I can send you the address if interested). I read a lot about this before I dropped and read lots of negative comments, every one always says, buy the Bilstein, the KW... the problem is I didn't want to spend 2K+ on lowering the car at the moment. So the Eibach lowered the car a little less than an inch and make the car feel very nice. My car has 50K miles and it feels better than it felt with the OEM springs with 50K miles on it. ZERO clacking from the suspension and the ride is by far better than it was with OEM. Also is worth mentioning to you that the Techarts are made by Eibach, they don't even remove the Eibach logo from them. I hope this helps you. I wish some one would have told me this before, it would have saved me lots of reading I also install them myself, easy job with the right tools which you can buy for less than $60.
Well, as I understand the 10mm drop will be due to the PASM system which has nothing to do with the springs themselves. The PASM system lowers the car 10mm when activated from the console, which makes the car more responsive, opens the muffler to get better sound, and lowers 10mm depending on the combination setting. I hope that makes sense? In regards of lowering a C2 without braking the bank is to get lowering springs, which opens a Pandora's box! What brand? how mush do they lower the car? et cetera. you know where I am going with this. I recently installed Eibach pro springs on my 997.1 C2 and my experience with them so far is superb. I bought for about $300 shipped from somewhere online (I can send you the address if interested). I read a lot about this before I dropped and read lots of negative comments, every one always says, buy the Bilstein, the KW... the problem is I didn't want to spend 2K+ on lowering the car at the moment. So the Eibach lowered the car a little less than an inch and make the car feel very nice. My car has 50K miles and it feels better than it felt with the OEM springs with 50K miles on it. ZERO clacking from the suspension and the ride is by far better than it was with OEM. Also is worth mentioning to you that the Techarts are made by Eibach, they don't even remove the Eibach logo from them. I hope this helps you. I wish some one would have told me this before, it would have saved me lots of reading I also install them myself, easy job with the right tools which you can buy for less than $60.
Interesting, I have heard some say the PASM cars have a static ride height of 10mm less than a non-PASM car and provide a firmer suspension setting when the system is activated. Hate to sound ignorant, forgive me if I've provided miss-information.
Interesting, I have heard some say the PASM cars have a static ride height of 10mm less than a non-PASM car and provide a firmer suspension setting when the system is activated. Hate to sound ignorant, forgive me if I've provided miss-information.
My understanding is PASM definitely does not lower the car, it only electronically adjusts the dampers.
The TechArt vs. Eibach issue is still something I wish could be definitively answered. Still many posts and opinions saying TechArt have different rates to Eibach, and yet they seem to have the same part number.
I still say go coilovers. If you'd like to be more reasonable and spend less I'd say go Eibach. I believe they are the same as Techart is offering especially given identical part numbers. Although coilovers are expensive. I think you'll appreciate the money you'll spend. Years ago I was a performance spring and Bilstein sport advocate... now don't get me wrong it worked well but, I drove a friends car which was identical to mine with exception of a coilover suspension. What an incredible difference. Worth every penny!!!!
OP... how long you keeping your car? Springs with stock shocks not ideal... can wear out your shocks pre mature... with the crap roads these days, imo, shocks need a refresh at 40k anyways.
if your keeping it... just do the coils. I put them on cars I only plan on keeping a year... when I get in and go, I want it to perform and look decent too. like another member said, you can weight balance the car with coils as well.
my PASM equipped 08 rides like hell when its on. and yes, it most certainly lowers the car 10mm when in sport mode. it is very noticeable. but 10mm is still 1" shy of a proper drop for me.
Sorry for misleading anyone, looks like I was wrong about PASM actively lowering the car 10mm. This is from Porsche:
Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM)
PASM, the electronic damping control system, is standard in the 911 Carrera S models and available as an option for the 911 Carrera models. It actively and continuously regulates damping forces according to driving style and road conditions. In addition, the suspension is lowered by 10 mm.
PASM has two modes, which can be selected using a separate button on the center console: ‘Normal’, which is a blend of performance and comfort, and ‘Sport’ where the setup is much firmer.
To ensure efficient control interventions, a multitude of sensors in the 911 record the body movements that accompany powerful acceleration, braking or uneven road surfaces. The PASM control unit evaluates the driving conditions and modifies the damping force on each of the wheels in accordance with the selected mode.
In ‘Sport’ mode, the suspension is set to a harder damper rating. On uneven roads, PASM immediately switches to a softer rating, thereby improving contact between the wheels and the road. When the road surface improves, PASM automatically reverts to the original, harder rating. If ‘Normal’ mode is selected and the driver’s style becomes more assertive, PASM automatically switches to a harder rating. Damping firms up, and driving stability and road safety are increased.
The results are tangible: increased driving stability, improved comfort and enhanced performance.
PASM sports suspension
The PASM sports suspension is available as an option for the 911 Carrera Coupé models in conjunction with 20-inch wheels and Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) or Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus (PTV Plus).
The ride height is 20 mm lower than with the standard suspension or 10 mm compared with the PASM suspension. The springs are harder and shorter, and the anti-roll bars on the front and rear axles are stiffer. The front spoiler lip has a more sporty geometry, the rear spoiler extends even further. These not only further reduce lift at the front axle, but also provide downforce at the rear axle for improved aerodynamics and even better performance.
In regards of Springs vs. coil overs. I agree with everyone saying coil overs is the way to go! Now there are things to take in consideration, if you are tracking the car and want to make adjustments to ride height, corner balancing, and more – coil overs are the way to go. Otherwise I think springs are a great way to make the car look a little better without wasting money on expensive suspension system most people don't even know how to use or setup. Also if your struts are in good shape, use them up first! Your car comes with Bilstein struts already, use them up with lowering springs for better stance and then change to coil overs once they need replacement.
I am really happy with the way the springs ride and make the car look for the time being and it is something I wish I would have been able to read before I made a decision.
I have read Porsche's explanation of the PASM many, many times. It can be a bit confusing. I am sure that others will still read it as active lowering.
I am coming from a very simple Aircooled 911... With that car I was always looking for ways to add things to make the car perform better. Although I will miss its simplicity I now appreciate what the 997 provides.
As much as I'd recommend coilovers for someone looking for a way the further enhance appearance and performance, I don't think I'll be changing a thing on my 997 "S". Its build very well and for once the only thing I feel I need to spend money on is general maintenance.
The PASM is IMO very unstable when in sport mode... I didn't expect this. It nearly caused me to pass on the purchase. I've found that if I just leave it in normal mode its near perfect. I think the PASM sport mode would work much better under the proper conditions i.e. Track not street (or just a well paved road).
I fully agree with the degree of tuning/flexibility you get with coilovers. I went that route with my Cayenne because I needed a significant drop for the wheels I was using, and am very happy with the results. However I was trying to look first at OEM options for the 911 as I was thinking a small drop would be sufficient.
After some thought I do think 10mm may be too little, but I would like to look at bit further into the M030 springs (either US or ROW) which would give a 20mm drop. Will keep you posted.
03-02-2015 | 08:06 PM
Hoping I can also help someone else in future who may have the same question.
