Tapping Noise at Passenger A Pillar and Dash
#1
Tapping Noise at Passenger A Pillar and Dash
I have developed a tapping noise in my 2005 997 Coupe where the passenger side A Pillar joins the dash nearby to the windshield.
I have done the following:
1. Removed glove compartment and felted everywhere.
2. Removed speaker covers, defrost vent plastic, and A Pillar trim - cannot isolate the noise.
3. In the right front wheel well ... removed trim and taped up any moving parts with sticky AC tape.
4. Made sure the ventilations ducts are solidly connected.
5. Removed any possible offending plastic/rubber from the frunk.
6. Gummi Pflegged all seals in the region.
7. Used Pedro Wax underneath the window seals.
8. Took the car to a Porsche window specialist who said the noise was not due to the windshield and he would even reseat the front windshield he was so sure.
I put the phone down in the region of the tapping sound and recorded the following audio:
The picture in the audio shows the area of the noise ... and where the phone was lying face down recording the audio.
Yes ... I should just turn up the radio or enjoy the AWE exhaust ... but the noise is killing me. Predominantly makes the noise when going over bumpy road. Local suspension expert says it's not the front right suspension.
Thanks for any help ... I've tried everything mentioned in the forums and no dice. Thanks in advance for any advice.
__________________
I have done the following:
1. Removed glove compartment and felted everywhere.
2. Removed speaker covers, defrost vent plastic, and A Pillar trim - cannot isolate the noise.
3. In the right front wheel well ... removed trim and taped up any moving parts with sticky AC tape.
4. Made sure the ventilations ducts are solidly connected.
5. Removed any possible offending plastic/rubber from the frunk.
6. Gummi Pflegged all seals in the region.
7. Used Pedro Wax underneath the window seals.
8. Took the car to a Porsche window specialist who said the noise was not due to the windshield and he would even reseat the front windshield he was so sure.
I put the phone down in the region of the tapping sound and recorded the following audio:
The picture in the audio shows the area of the noise ... and where the phone was lying face down recording the audio.
Yes ... I should just turn up the radio or enjoy the AWE exhaust ... but the noise is killing me. Predominantly makes the noise when going over bumpy road. Local suspension expert says it's not the front right suspension.
Thanks for any help ... I've tried everything mentioned in the forums and no dice. Thanks in advance for any advice.
__________________
Last edited by afishkind; 07-24-2015 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Clarify Youtube video
#3
Car isn't stationary ... it's just a single picture running the length of the audio ... I should have realized that could be misinterpreted ... I am in fact driving. AC was on at the time I recorded the audio ... but noise is present when AC is not on.
#4
OK then suspension not ruled out yet, we'll come back to that. Let's eliminate the AC first. You say it happens with the AC both on and off. What about the state of the interior fan?
AC on, FAN on --> yes noise is present
AC off, FAN on --> ?? (press the "AC OFF" button but leave the fan on low)
AC off, FAN off --> ?? (press the "AC OFF" button, leave it for a while to stabilize temps, then turn the fan off all the way)
Next diagnosing steps after AC, does it happen while sitting stationary? Or only when moving? Does the noise increase frequency with engine RPM? Only happen at certain RPM's? During idle?
AC on, FAN on --> yes noise is present
AC off, FAN on --> ?? (press the "AC OFF" button but leave the fan on low)
AC off, FAN off --> ?? (press the "AC OFF" button, leave it for a while to stabilize temps, then turn the fan off all the way)
Next diagnosing steps after AC, does it happen while sitting stationary? Or only when moving? Does the noise increase frequency with engine RPM? Only happen at certain RPM's? During idle?
#5
Thanks Semicycler ... here are the answers to your questions:
AC on, FAN on --> yes noise is present
AC off, FAN on --> Noise is present (press the "AC OFF" button but leave the fan on low)
AC off, FAN off --> Noise is present (press the "AC OFF" button, leave it for a while to stabilize temps, then turn the fan off all the way)
Next diagnosing steps after AC, does it happen while sitting stationary? No
Or only when moving? Yes
Does the noise increase frequency with engine RPM? No
Only happen at certain RPM's? No
During idle? No
AC on, FAN on --> yes noise is present
AC off, FAN on --> Noise is present (press the "AC OFF" button but leave the fan on low)
AC off, FAN off --> Noise is present (press the "AC OFF" button, leave it for a while to stabilize temps, then turn the fan off all the way)
Next diagnosing steps after AC, does it happen while sitting stationary? No
Or only when moving? Yes
Does the noise increase frequency with engine RPM? No
Only happen at certain RPM's? No
During idle? No
#6
Good, making progress. Doesn't sound like the interior fan or AC as the source. So right now we know it only happens when moving and does not track engine speed. From the clip the noise sounds somewhat random, not periodic in any fashion. Any upgrades to the car affecting NVH such as aftermarket exhaust, engine mounts, monoballs in the suspension? Or is everything stock?
More interior things to check:
1. Dashboard Speakers - you removed the cover, this time remove the speakers completely, both right side and center. It's unlikely but it could be an electrical noise of sorts playing through those speakers. The center cover pops off straight up with a plastic trim bar, then unscrew the speaker and disconnect the wire. The side tweeters pry up as well with a plastic trim bar and disconnect the wire.
2. Side Dashboard - open your passenger door and remove the side panel of the dashboard. Some p-cars have a passenger airbag disconnect switch on this panel, most do not. With the panel off check around inside. Also try to recreate the noise with the panel off.
3. Cup holder - recreate the noise with the cup holders & holder door in all opened/closed positions.
4. Sunroof - notorious for noises. The strange thing is sometimes the noise shows up at the dashboard near the windshield. Recreate the noise with the sunroof fully closed, fully open, half open, and tilted up. There are fastening screws under the front headliner for the sunroof that do rattle if loose. There's also some plastic spacers that crack and rattle under the headliner.
5. Rear view mirror - not common on p-cars, but like the sunroof the noise location shows up near the windshield/dashboard interface. While driving put your hand on various sections of the rear view mirror to hold vibrations, including on the rain sensor.
6. Passenger window - recreate the noise with the window fully closed, fully open and partway open.
7. Passenger interior door handle - can come loose, make sure it's tight.
8. Passenger exterior mirror - the entire housing folds for parking, verify the spring is still strong and holding the mirror in it's normal position. Also duplicate the noise with the passenger mirror set fully up, down, forward and back, basically at it's limits in all four directions.
After these checks it's on to the frunk area, then wheel well including brakes & suspension.
More interior things to check:
1. Dashboard Speakers - you removed the cover, this time remove the speakers completely, both right side and center. It's unlikely but it could be an electrical noise of sorts playing through those speakers. The center cover pops off straight up with a plastic trim bar, then unscrew the speaker and disconnect the wire. The side tweeters pry up as well with a plastic trim bar and disconnect the wire.
2. Side Dashboard - open your passenger door and remove the side panel of the dashboard. Some p-cars have a passenger airbag disconnect switch on this panel, most do not. With the panel off check around inside. Also try to recreate the noise with the panel off.
3. Cup holder - recreate the noise with the cup holders & holder door in all opened/closed positions.
4. Sunroof - notorious for noises. The strange thing is sometimes the noise shows up at the dashboard near the windshield. Recreate the noise with the sunroof fully closed, fully open, half open, and tilted up. There are fastening screws under the front headliner for the sunroof that do rattle if loose. There's also some plastic spacers that crack and rattle under the headliner.
5. Rear view mirror - not common on p-cars, but like the sunroof the noise location shows up near the windshield/dashboard interface. While driving put your hand on various sections of the rear view mirror to hold vibrations, including on the rain sensor.
6. Passenger window - recreate the noise with the window fully closed, fully open and partway open.
7. Passenger interior door handle - can come loose, make sure it's tight.
8. Passenger exterior mirror - the entire housing folds for parking, verify the spring is still strong and holding the mirror in it's normal position. Also duplicate the noise with the passenger mirror set fully up, down, forward and back, basically at it's limits in all four directions.
After these checks it's on to the frunk area, then wheel well including brakes & suspension.
#7
Semicycler is right on with the sunroof as a possibility.
I had a ticking noise coming from the sunroof directly above my head. At the beginning I couldn't tell where it was coming from until I took my Son along to listen and he pinpointed the location. So while driving I reached up with my thumb and put pressure along the interior opening right at the edge of the sunroof frame and the noise stopped. There is a small gap in the metal there, under the headliner, you can feel it from below, and also see it with sunroof open looking down from above with a good flashlight, the two edges of the metal frame. I 'adjusted' (slightly bent) the two sides, working from above, not by more than a mm. The ticking disappeared. The two sides should be even in height to each other, although mine might be off by a hair or two. Hard to describe this but once you look I think you'll get the picture. Check the passenger side as well.
Another place to look is on the opposite side of the firewall, remove the battery cover and the two plastic covers L & R next to it and see if anything is loose enough or close to another object to make the noise.
BTW I also had a creaking sound, eventually dropped the headliner and found a really loose sunroof frame bolt. Retorqued all bolts and now car is quiet.That was a PITA.
I had a ticking noise coming from the sunroof directly above my head. At the beginning I couldn't tell where it was coming from until I took my Son along to listen and he pinpointed the location. So while driving I reached up with my thumb and put pressure along the interior opening right at the edge of the sunroof frame and the noise stopped. There is a small gap in the metal there, under the headliner, you can feel it from below, and also see it with sunroof open looking down from above with a good flashlight, the two edges of the metal frame. I 'adjusted' (slightly bent) the two sides, working from above, not by more than a mm. The ticking disappeared. The two sides should be even in height to each other, although mine might be off by a hair or two. Hard to describe this but once you look I think you'll get the picture. Check the passenger side as well.
Another place to look is on the opposite side of the firewall, remove the battery cover and the two plastic covers L & R next to it and see if anything is loose enough or close to another object to make the noise.
BTW I also had a creaking sound, eventually dropped the headliner and found a really loose sunroof frame bolt. Retorqued all bolts and now car is quiet.That was a PITA.
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#8
I saw another thread on another forum about the same type of noise and they thought it was a faulty actuator mechanism behind the dash that opens and closes vent doors. The drive was a screw-type mechanism and the cog was skipping the drive threads. I don't know if Porsches have these devices or not.
#9
Update
Using greatly appreciated advice, I have been unable to find the source of the tapping noise. It has grown louder and more constant. Using a stethoscope, and ruling out locations where I have used teflon and felt tape, I have decided the tapping is coming from behind this metal plate at the base of the passenger A pillar:
Does anyone know how to access the inside of this metal plate? It appears welded in place. Thanks in advance.
Does anyone know how to access the inside of this metal plate? It appears welded in place. Thanks in advance.
#10
Up next are exterior noise sources that can transmit to that location.
First is the gas cap and filler door. Check to make sure the rubber bumper on the filler door is still there. Vibrations while driving could cause the door to bounce causing metal to metal contact. Verify the plastic gas cap retention wire is not banging against anything too.
Frunk checks next since they are relatively easy. Open the hood and remove everything from your frunk, jack, tow hook, fix-a-flat, etc. Some of it is behind a cover at the rear of the frunk. Next remove the plastic covers below the windshield cowl, exposing the battery and cabin air filter. Check for anything loose including the battery harness.
Tucked up above the air filter near the a-pillar is the nav antenna. While you are in there consider replacing your cabin air filter. Also verify the three nuts connecting the strut to the body are tight (should be otherwise you would have cornering problems). If you still do not find anything loose I'd remove the plastic cowl on the base of the windshield. It's not too hard to do. Then see if you can reproduce the noise.
Next you could look at removing the plastic covers inside the frunk, exposing the CD changer, NAV drive and so on depending upon your model and options. It's unlikely but perhaps one of the mounts underneath are loose.
Then onto the wheel well. Remove the inner liner exposing the underside of the wheel well. TPMS antenna is there if you have that option. Look for anything loose with the brake lines or cabling. Also inspect the dust shield behind the rotor. Sometimes a rock will get stuck there, but the noise tends to be different than what you describe.
If you still can't find the source after all this, then suspension would be my next guess. The top of the coilover is in that area. LCA's or thrust arms could cause the problem. Check the underside of the LCA puck for a leak, it's a fluid filled hydraulic damping mount. My left front leaked causing clunking noises at odd times, not quite the tapping noise you describe. Verify sway bar drop links are tight. At this point I'd also get a pro involved with a set of engine ears to solidly confirm the noise location. Swapping suspension parts hoping to fix a noise can be expensive, unless you can be certain what component is at fault.
Good luck, and keep us updated!
First is the gas cap and filler door. Check to make sure the rubber bumper on the filler door is still there. Vibrations while driving could cause the door to bounce causing metal to metal contact. Verify the plastic gas cap retention wire is not banging against anything too.
Frunk checks next since they are relatively easy. Open the hood and remove everything from your frunk, jack, tow hook, fix-a-flat, etc. Some of it is behind a cover at the rear of the frunk. Next remove the plastic covers below the windshield cowl, exposing the battery and cabin air filter. Check for anything loose including the battery harness.
Tucked up above the air filter near the a-pillar is the nav antenna. While you are in there consider replacing your cabin air filter. Also verify the three nuts connecting the strut to the body are tight (should be otherwise you would have cornering problems). If you still do not find anything loose I'd remove the plastic cowl on the base of the windshield. It's not too hard to do. Then see if you can reproduce the noise.
Next you could look at removing the plastic covers inside the frunk, exposing the CD changer, NAV drive and so on depending upon your model and options. It's unlikely but perhaps one of the mounts underneath are loose.
Then onto the wheel well. Remove the inner liner exposing the underside of the wheel well. TPMS antenna is there if you have that option. Look for anything loose with the brake lines or cabling. Also inspect the dust shield behind the rotor. Sometimes a rock will get stuck there, but the noise tends to be different than what you describe.
If you still can't find the source after all this, then suspension would be my next guess. The top of the coilover is in that area. LCA's or thrust arms could cause the problem. Check the underside of the LCA puck for a leak, it's a fluid filled hydraulic damping mount. My left front leaked causing clunking noises at odd times, not quite the tapping noise you describe. Verify sway bar drop links are tight. At this point I'd also get a pro involved with a set of engine ears to solidly confirm the noise location. Swapping suspension parts hoping to fix a noise can be expensive, unless you can be certain what component is at fault.
Good luck, and keep us updated!
#11
There is an emergency wire pull inside the fender for the gas cap lid. make sure the plunger is seated properly and not jiggling around in there. Open the pass. door and shine a flashlight in there. Mine was unseated, out of it's mount and I had to reseat it.
#12
Semicycler ... working my way through your items ... thanks. Sullivas ... mine is not jiggling and is seated properly ... thanks for the hint.
Interestingly, I found the following video ... a Ford Flex with the exact same noise at the A pillar:
Interestingly, I found the following video ... a Ford Flex with the exact same noise at the A pillar:
#13
Thought I would post the solution to this mystery. After removing the right fender ... it became obvious that there had been some repair done at the seam pictured in the red circle below .. probably some accident that had not been known to the previous owner ( the third owner ) and not reported on Carfax.
Applied over the seam that was apparently welded was some substance .. something akin perhaps to JB Weld. Some of it still remaining in the second picture. After scraping off the substance, the tapping/stress release sound in the video at the beginning of this post vanished. The car is put back together with no more noise. Thanks to all who gave advice.
Applied over the seam that was apparently welded was some substance .. something akin perhaps to JB Weld. Some of it still remaining in the second picture. After scraping off the substance, the tapping/stress release sound in the video at the beginning of this post vanished. The car is put back together with no more noise. Thanks to all who gave advice.
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