Saw my first GTR today
#16
07-27-2008, 12:35 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ashburn va
Age: 49
Posts: 472
Rep Power: 0 
I'll start off by saying that I'm a person who's been trying REALLY hard to not like the GT-R. But honestly, you really just can't fault the damn thing.
Now me personally, I've loved Corvettes ever since I was a little kid and the Z06 is just the obvious choice for me. I love the NA power, the lighter weight, the manual gearbox and RWD.
But even I can see why people love the GT-R. It's just a really fantastic car from an engineering standpoint. And even if you payed $100k...$120k...it's undoubtedly worth every penny. Being turbocharged from the factory, the car's power potential is seemingly limitless and the suspension needs absolutely ZERO fiddling with. The automotive press has certainly given the car enough hype to last a lifetime, and with a reputation like it has and being a low-volume car, it's going to turn almost just as many heads as any Ferrari or Lamborghini would...something that can't really be said for Vettes, given their unfortunate ubiquity. So long as you steer clear of Porsche prices (I'd call $120k the price cap), I'd say you're undoubtedly getting your money's worth out of that car. If you can get it for sticker, then you just got yourself a HELL of a deal.
Now me personally, I've loved Corvettes ever since I was a little kid and the Z06 is just the obvious choice for me. I love the NA power, the lighter weight, the manual gearbox and RWD.
But even I can see why people love the GT-R. It's just a really fantastic car from an engineering standpoint. And even if you payed $100k...$120k...it's undoubtedly worth every penny. Being turbocharged from the factory, the car's power potential is seemingly limitless and the suspension needs absolutely ZERO fiddling with. The automotive press has certainly given the car enough hype to last a lifetime, and with a reputation like it has and being a low-volume car, it's going to turn almost just as many heads as any Ferrari or Lamborghini would...something that can't really be said for Vettes, given their unfortunate ubiquity. So long as you steer clear of Porsche prices (I'd call $120k the price cap), I'd say you're undoubtedly getting your money's worth out of that car. If you can get it for sticker, then you just got yourself a HELL of a deal.
#17
07-27-2008, 01:01 PM
Well I have owned both. I sold my 07 Z06, and got into a 09 GTR. The GTR is so much more of a car in EVERY way than the Z06. Were the hell do I start...
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
#18
07-27-2008, 01:20 PM
Well I have owned both. I sold my 07 Z06, and got into a 09 GTR. The GTR is so much more of a car in EVERY way than the Z06. Were the hell do I start...
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
Thanks for the review! Very interesting. I have always felt that the ZO6 was just glorified F-body car. With that said, I would never pay 30K over for a GTR! I guess GTR is a better bang for your buck with quality at sticker than the ZO6.
#19
07-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ashburn va
Age: 49
Posts: 472
Rep Power: 0 Well I have owned both. I sold my 07 Z06, and got into a 09 GTR. The GTR is so much more of a car in EVERY way than the Z06. Were the hell do I start...
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
#20
07-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Sounds like you are as big a tool or maybe even bigger than the kids you are whining about
Christian
Christian
So I pull into Ferrari of Washington today to look at cars that I may never afford and much to my surprise sat a dark metallic grey GTR. I walk over and say 'nice car' and the guy looks at me, my Z, and says 'thanks'. I walk around the GTR, nice car i'm thinking but how much over sticker did he pay ? I ask and he responds '30 k over.' My 76 year old father says what I wanted to say but did not, 'good lord you paid 100k for a F'n Nissan'?!? said dad. The elderly 'I don't give a S _ _ _ T attitude of my father and a'lot of people his age never ceases to amaze me. The Nissan owner just laughed and said, 'yeah I am the first one in the area with this beast.' At this point the tons of kids with hair product seeping through to their brains strated chiming in ... 'The GTR will smoke your Z from a dig and in the 1/4 mile!!' . I go to say something but the GTR owner beat me to it and said he would not get on it until it's broken in (something about zero weight oil?) obviously he knew what I was going to say. I WILL GLADLY RUN YOUR 30K OVER *** INTO THE GROUND. He lives in my neighborhood and had agreed to run me after his first oil change. I wish some of you guys were there to see the tools surrounding this GTR, ok I have vented and feel better know, thanks for listening.
#21
07-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Thanks for proving my point
Christian
Christian
When and what time can I meet you at the track ? The nissan interior is just as crappy the z's and the body fit ? The body fit is just fine on mine, maybe you got a bad z ? You are right about the brakes, radio, (not that I care and really the radio sounds great to me) and yeah it's plastic and blah blah blah ... Hard to keep clean? WTF ? Did you have a black z ? BTW Post some pics of your GTR when you get the chance k ? Also PM me and maybe we can find a track to duke it out at. Your non 'ringer' GTR will not fair to well at all.
#22
07-27-2008, 01:35 PM
August 13th I will be at Line Rock. New config there, I was running 1:02's in the Z in the old config. And yes, my Z was black. I am not interested in trading paint with you, because to be honest its not worth it to prove a point every trade magazine has already proven. I would be interested to see what you run for times at LRP though.
My old Z06
My usual track toy
My old Z06
My usual track toy
Last edited by Scottsbmw; 07-27-2008 at 01:38 PM.
#23
07-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Just saw a few of these GTR's in a dealership called NAZA World in Malaysia. Everyone should pay a visit to NAZA World, it is the biggest and most expensive collection of cars I have ever seen under one roof. The craziest part is that instead of paying 30k over MSRP, cars imported to Malaysia have to pay insane taxes and the price of the GTR ends up being about 150k.
#24
07-27-2008, 02:46 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ashburn va
Age: 49
Posts: 472
Rep Power: 0 Why because I want to run a GTR ? Ok I will man up and admit that my ego was bruised a little by the litany of bad things about written about the Z, I ADMIT, and it's juvenile to want to race someone every time they bash the Z. I am 31 yrs old and very competitive. That said I do not street race and respect the GTR and all it's accomplishments thus far. I'm not a egomaniac with a mullet
#25
07-27-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of the R35. I think its a fun car if you like that style. I would personally prefer an older R33 or R34 over the R35. Nissan has made it VERY clear they don't want people tinkering with it or "modding" it unless you don't care about the factory warranty. The 1 piece turbo/manifold setup will be fun because if you want to upgrade then you have to replace it all. Which we all know when you have to buy 2 of everything really adds up quick. Not saying people won't do it but they risk alot if they do because technology is getting more and more advanced and emissions are getting more and more strict. But, after reading the previous posts I agree that the GTR vs Z06 thing isn't even a question. The GTR is sooooo much more than the Vette'. My buddy is a GM Mechanic and if he talks smack about the Vettes' then you know their crap. He hates working on them.
Last edited by GSlider; 07-27-2008 at 03:17 PM.
#26
07-27-2008, 04:20 PM
Give me a break, your telling me if a ZO6 or something pulled up next to you at a light you wouldn't play? Or are you afraid to lose?
#27
07-27-2008, 04:25 PM
Well I have owned both. I sold my 07 Z06, and got into a 09 GTR. The GTR is so much more of a car in EVERY way than the Z06. Were the hell do I start...
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
1. Tupaware car - The car is made of plastic. When you go to the dealer push on the rear and watch it flex. This just SCREAMS quality. Then look at the panel lines. You can fit a dollars worth of quarters between em. Plastic under the hood, plastic body panels, plastic interior… The GTR has good tight panel lines, and no plastic.
2. Interior - Get in a vette, then go and get in a Malibu. Notice something? Yes, the interior is the same! Same crappy no bolster seats! Same AC Delco Radio Shack stereo! Same smell of cheap Chinese plastic! The interior is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The seats suck, the dash sucks, the computer is 1980's tech... Nothing good inside. On a GTR, the intiror is great, nice bolstered seats, leatehr wrapped dash, full airbag protection, and a great computer that tracks everything from sideload G's to braking G's. Guess this is why you pay more....
3. The Paint - Boy, good quality here. Both of my cars were orange peeled. As a matter of fact, most vettes i have seen have a crappy paint job from the factory. Orange peeled, and soft clear coat. So glad my $80,000 vette has a Kia paintjob. The GTR has outstanding paint. No orenge peeling, good hard crear coat.
4. Made in the USA my *** - The block is produced in Mexico by Engicom, the cams come from Linimar in Canada, the interior is shot in China... The clutch plate is machined in Poland by Delphi…. The list goes on. So glad I thought I was supporting the USA. Any more Chinese parts and this thing would be sold at Walmart.... At least with a Japanese car you know you are getting Japanese parts.
5. Nav – On the 07, the nav is a POS. Low resolution, hard to use, no technology at all here. It has the same graphics as an Apple IIe back in the 80's. Hard to get around and find your destination. No extras. The GTR has a touch screen Navi that is easy, has voice activation that works, and the screen resolution is good.
6. The owners - Well, I can say that 90% of vette owners I met were over 50. This makes it very hard to converse with them. There is a TON of inter model fighting too. "The C5 was the best, the 89 ZR1 was the best bla bla". It is hard to find like minded 30 something’s at a meet. And to be honest the 50 something’s dont want anything to do with you. Many saved there whole life for this car and are pissed you got yours, paying cash, at 30. This is also the cause of the denial that the vette group is pointing towards… well anything that is not a vette as you can see in the above post...
7. The steering - On the track, the steering on the vette is unresponsive. It feels.... low quality. Almost like it is straining to move the wheels. This is more so on the C6 vs the C5. It feel vague a the limit and is just about out of control and uneven pavement. The GTR has great high speed steering feel 2nd only to any E46 M3 I have driven.
8. Brakes - GM did no one favors with the brakes on the C6 Z06. The padlette design (each piston has pad) is a freaking joke. The front pads wear out on the track in one day. The C5 had better brakes. and you could buy rotors for it at an auto parts store for under 50 bucks... The GTR has breakes that could stop an aircraft carrier, has 3 retaining bolts vs 2, and has normal pads.
9. Quality - both of the vettes I had went in many times for warranty work. Blown power steering lines, alignments moving around under 500 miles, leaks... AND I was lucky. There are stories of the LS7 having all sorts of assembly issues like retainers falling off and falling into the oil pan... NICE!!! Jury is still out on the GTR.
10. Antiquated Design - I guess if 60 year old technology is your thing, the vette is your car. Pushrods, plastic, leaf springs…. You could buy a C3 made in the 70’s and a C6 made in the 2000’s and have the same major technology pieces. But hey if that’s you thing…. It aint no GTR that’s for sure.
11. The stereo – on both cars was just horrible. I thin the parts came out of a Malibu or some low end car. Not a huge thing, but you want to crank tunes when you drive fast. Don’t turn it up on this car, the 4” speakers will tear. No bass, no highs, flat sounding… Just horrible. Only talk radio sounds good on these. I expected more. The GTR has a nice Bose system that although is not aftermarket quality, is FAR supirior to AC Delco.
12. Hard to keep clean – Never mind that the clear coat is soft so you scratch the car every time you wash it, but the design of the rear end, sucks the dirt off the road, and deposits it on the back of your car. They claimed to have fixed this on the C6, but they didn’t. The GTR does nto have this problem.
13. Shifter – This is the worst shifter I have had in any car. Since the tranny is in the rear it has a long way to go. It has a strange feel that is not good when you are at the track. You find yourself looking to get into 3rd and getting into 6th. No positive feel. Actually… It feels cheap, like the rest of the car. No shifter on the GTR.
14. Zero support for Ipod – This is post 2002, when MP3’s are the new thing. Think GM would add some sort of interface? HELL NO. ou have to hotwire that sweet Radio Shack radio to get an Ipod to work. The Ipod interface on the GTR is great.
15. No Blue Tooth – I guess vette owners must still stop and use pay phones? Again, good interface on the GTR.
16. Ride quality - Over high speed bumpy tracks, the Z06 was almost uncontrolable, with the numb steering coming into play here. This comes fromthe carbon leaf spring in the car. The GTR, on the other hand, is very controlable at speed over uneven pavement.
I could write all day. So, I would say that pointing a finger at a GTR and saying "just a Nissan" would be the pot calling the kettle black. The GTR has a long and storied history, just like the vette, in racing and on the street. From a roll the GTR is going to lose agaisnta Z06. From a dig it proboly has a chance. On the road couse, every magazine in the world has shown the GTR has a 4- 7 second advantage. I will take comfort, technology, and faster at the track any day.
Last edited by SINISTR; 07-27-2008 at 04:30 PM.
#28
07-27-2008, 05:19 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ashburn va
Age: 49
Posts: 472
Rep Power: 0
#29
07-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: W Palm Beach, FL
Age: 54
Posts: 174
Rep Power: 28 You and Prpsebuilt have knocked the GT-R every chance you get. You sound like two 10 year olds. "Are you afraid to lose", "Also PM me and maybe we can find a track to duke it out at. Your non 'ringer' GTR will not fair to well at all","I WILL GLADLY RUN YOUR 30K OVER *** INTO THE GROUND". I could go on.