Z06 as a track car?
#47
12-09-2008, 06:57 PM
Why do I get the feeling that some LSx people don't believe that engines can blow from oil starvation?
Here's a rebuttal since the only people I know that have blown engines aren't members of forums that I'm aware of. Sorry, not everyone is online. But you can ask AU N EGL or Snitz over on corvetteforum, I'm sure they can provide an opinion as well to the merits of dry sump for an extreme environment.
Call Gary Armstrong(www.drysump.com) at ARE (who does pans for GT2/World Challenge Vettes), or Katech who does the engine prep for Pratt & Miller and ask 'em; I'm sure they can explain to one's content why the stock oem oiling is insufficient.
Point is, say you run Moton double adjustables, and 315's and 345ish slicks, your vette weighs 2950lbs. Go out and see if your oil pressures don't drop while cornering at 1.1g's. I had oil pressure dropping when running my T1 suspension, so when I went to Motons, I knew I was screwed as the oil simply gets sloshed to the side of the pan and held in place there if the turn is sustained thus starving the pump and starving the main bearings.
I'd be more than happy to email whoever pics of the install on my LS6. I've never known anybody that's hostile to using dry sump lubrication to prevent bearing starvation. It's necessary at certain levels. Heck, Katech recommends either the ARE 3 stage or Dailey 4 stage for their track attack.
Sorry I don't have any internet evidence; the fella I modeled my car after is down here in Dallas @ MSR; Taz Racing's yellow world challenge/GT2 thingy C6... and when I heard of his engine failures and subsequent fix, I knew I needed a solution... Accusump or dry sump.
If the OEM solution was so great, how come the C5R and C6R's don't use. Sure the horespower increase is nice, but that ain't why.
I'm only testy about this issue if your going to go out, flog the bejesus of your Y-Body, your going to have issues with the oiling. Slap a good set of coilovers, get some full blown slicks on there, start reducing the car's weight and you'll get some issues. The LSx OEM oiling system is GREAT for sub 1.0G sustained lateral accels, you start pushing 1.1+ watch that needle drop. Much like my engine. 0 oil pressure != good for bearings. If your NOT going to beat the holy bejesus out of your LSx platform, then your probably not gonna have an issue.
Here's another link about the LS in general dry sump vs. wet sump
Here's a rebuttal since the only people I know that have blown engines aren't members of forums that I'm aware of. Sorry, not everyone is online. But you can ask AU N EGL or Snitz over on corvetteforum, I'm sure they can provide an opinion as well to the merits of dry sump for an extreme environment.
Call Gary Armstrong(www.drysump.com) at ARE (who does pans for GT2/World Challenge Vettes), or Katech who does the engine prep for Pratt & Miller and ask 'em; I'm sure they can explain to one's content why the stock oem oiling is insufficient.
Point is, say you run Moton double adjustables, and 315's and 345ish slicks, your vette weighs 2950lbs. Go out and see if your oil pressures don't drop while cornering at 1.1g's. I had oil pressure dropping when running my T1 suspension, so when I went to Motons, I knew I was screwed as the oil simply gets sloshed to the side of the pan and held in place there if the turn is sustained thus starving the pump and starving the main bearings.
I'd be more than happy to email whoever pics of the install on my LS6. I've never known anybody that's hostile to using dry sump lubrication to prevent bearing starvation. It's necessary at certain levels. Heck, Katech recommends either the ARE 3 stage or Dailey 4 stage for their track attack.
Sorry I don't have any internet evidence; the fella I modeled my car after is down here in Dallas @ MSR; Taz Racing's yellow world challenge/GT2 thingy C6... and when I heard of his engine failures and subsequent fix, I knew I needed a solution... Accusump or dry sump.
If the OEM solution was so great, how come the C5R and C6R's don't use. Sure the horespower increase is nice, but that ain't why.
I'm only testy about this issue if your going to go out, flog the bejesus of your Y-Body, your going to have issues with the oiling. Slap a good set of coilovers, get some full blown slicks on there, start reducing the car's weight and you'll get some issues. The LSx OEM oiling system is GREAT for sub 1.0G sustained lateral accels, you start pushing 1.1+ watch that needle drop. Much like my engine. 0 oil pressure != good for bearings. If your NOT going to beat the holy bejesus out of your LSx platform, then your probably not gonna have an issue.
AU N EGL
CF Senior Member
My Corvette Photos
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Rolesville NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer28
I also run T1 in a c6 LS2 so I would like to think I have a lap or two on "R" tires. I have been told by too many people that I trust that there is an issue with the stock dry sump when the car is driven hard. They suggested a new pan & tank but before I do that I am thinking about the ARE tank and having the pan cleaned up by Extrude Hone.
The stock Z06 may have oiling issues under high G braking. Too much oil stays in the heads.
The new AER pan and tank help keep the flow of oil moving under all conditions,
This oiling issue in the heads is why the Chevy enginers changed the oil tank in the 2009 Z06s and the ZR1.
Not like the LS6 which had oil starvation issues on high speed high G cornering.
the ARE tank and pan are less expesive and work better then the new Chevy counter parts.
Link
CF Senior Member
My Corvette Photos
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Rolesville NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer28
I also run T1 in a c6 LS2 so I would like to think I have a lap or two on "R" tires. I have been told by too many people that I trust that there is an issue with the stock dry sump when the car is driven hard. They suggested a new pan & tank but before I do that I am thinking about the ARE tank and having the pan cleaned up by Extrude Hone.
The stock Z06 may have oiling issues under high G braking. Too much oil stays in the heads.
The new AER pan and tank help keep the flow of oil moving under all conditions,
This oiling issue in the heads is why the Chevy enginers changed the oil tank in the 2009 Z06s and the ZR1.
Not like the LS6 which had oil starvation issues on high speed high G cornering.
the ARE tank and pan are less expesive and work better then the new Chevy counter parts.
Link
Last edited by OKcruising; 12-09-2008 at 07:21 PM. Reason: slight changes in verbage
#48
12-09-2008, 07:45 PM
Why do I get the feeling that some LSx people don't believe that engines can blow from oil starvation?
Here's a rebuttal since the only people I know that have blown engines aren't members of forums that I'm aware of. Sorry, not everyone is online. But you can ask AU N EGL or Snitz over on corvetteforum, I'm sure they can provide an opinion as well to the merits of dry sump for an extreme environment.
Call Gary Armstrong(www.drysump.com) at ARE (who does pans for GT2/World Challenge Vettes), or Katech who does the engine prep for Pratt & Miller and ask 'em; I'm sure they can explain to one's content why the stock oem oiling is insufficient.
Point is, say you run Moton double adjustables, and 315's and 345ish slicks, your vette weighs 2950lbs. Go out and see if your oil pressures don't drop while cornering at 1.1g's. I had oil pressure dropping when running my T1 suspension, so when I went to Motons, I knew I was screwed as the oil simply gets sloshed to the side of the pan and held in place there if the turn is sustained thus starving the pump and starving the main bearings.
I'd be more than happy to email whoever pics of the install on my LS6. I've never known anybody that's hostile to using dry sump lubrication to prevent bearing starvation. It's necessary at certain levels. Heck, Katech recommends either the ARE 3 stage or Dailey 4 stage for their track attack.
Sorry I don't have any internet evidence; the fella I modeled my car after is down here in Dallas @ MSR; Taz Racing's yellow world challenge/GT2 thingy C6... and when I heard of his engine failures and subsequent fix, I knew I needed a solution... Accusump or dry sump.
If the OEM solution was so great, how come the C5R and C6R's don't use. Sure the horespower increase is nice, but that ain't why.
I'm only testy about this issue if your going to go out, flog the bejesus of your Y-Body, your going to have issues with the oiling. Slap a good set of coilovers, get some full blown slicks on there, start reducing the car's weight and you'll get some issues. The LSx OEM oiling system is GREAT for sub 1.0G sustained lateral accels, you start pushing 1.1+ watch that needle drop. Much like my engine. 0 oil pressure != good for bearings. If your NOT going to beat the holy bejesus out of your LSx platform, then your probably not gonna have an issue.
Here's another link about the LS in general dry sump vs. wet sump
Here's a rebuttal since the only people I know that have blown engines aren't members of forums that I'm aware of. Sorry, not everyone is online. But you can ask AU N EGL or Snitz over on corvetteforum, I'm sure they can provide an opinion as well to the merits of dry sump for an extreme environment.
Call Gary Armstrong(www.drysump.com) at ARE (who does pans for GT2/World Challenge Vettes), or Katech who does the engine prep for Pratt & Miller and ask 'em; I'm sure they can explain to one's content why the stock oem oiling is insufficient.
Point is, say you run Moton double adjustables, and 315's and 345ish slicks, your vette weighs 2950lbs. Go out and see if your oil pressures don't drop while cornering at 1.1g's. I had oil pressure dropping when running my T1 suspension, so when I went to Motons, I knew I was screwed as the oil simply gets sloshed to the side of the pan and held in place there if the turn is sustained thus starving the pump and starving the main bearings.
I'd be more than happy to email whoever pics of the install on my LS6. I've never known anybody that's hostile to using dry sump lubrication to prevent bearing starvation. It's necessary at certain levels. Heck, Katech recommends either the ARE 3 stage or Dailey 4 stage for their track attack.
Sorry I don't have any internet evidence; the fella I modeled my car after is down here in Dallas @ MSR; Taz Racing's yellow world challenge/GT2 thingy C6... and when I heard of his engine failures and subsequent fix, I knew I needed a solution... Accusump or dry sump.
If the OEM solution was so great, how come the C5R and C6R's don't use. Sure the horespower increase is nice, but that ain't why.
I'm only testy about this issue if your going to go out, flog the bejesus of your Y-Body, your going to have issues with the oiling. Slap a good set of coilovers, get some full blown slicks on there, start reducing the car's weight and you'll get some issues. The LSx OEM oiling system is GREAT for sub 1.0G sustained lateral accels, you start pushing 1.1+ watch that needle drop. Much like my engine. 0 oil pressure != good for bearings. If your NOT going to beat the holy bejesus out of your LSx platform, then your probably not gonna have an issue.
Here's another link about the LS in general dry sump vs. wet sump
#49
12-09-2008, 08:14 PM
If you're thinking of putting new stresses on your motor, do your research first. It's certainly out there.
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