What's wrong with Vette's??
#64
Bike and cars both react the same when you abruptly let off the gas.
That is, badly.
Cars (just) slide. With a bike, you get to enjoy the high-side rodeo:
That is, badly.
Cars (just) slide. With a bike, you get to enjoy the high-side rodeo:
Last edited by HIRISC; 02-21-2012 at 09:05 AM.
#65
well yeah but braking a 1500 kg car on straight line on dry surface is something that i cant imagine how can happen, unless there is a brake pressure disorder among wheels of the same axle
#67
Its a V8 powered, RWD, 400+hp..3300lb sportscar capable of 190mph and can be bought for under $20,000 used these days. Which means pretty much anyone capable of making a $300 car payment can afford one. Skill is not a requirement for getting approved on a loan application.
Just like sportbikes (especially literbikes) its not hard to figure out why so many of them get wrecked on public streets.
Just like sportbikes (especially literbikes) its not hard to figure out why so many of them get wrecked on public streets.
#68
My two cents....
Owned a head and cammed vette, supercharged nsx and on my third viper purchase.
Two adress the porshe owner. The 2003 srt viper was running 7.50s at the ring back in 2003. Nearly ten years ago before people even knew about the ring. Let me tell you high 7s back then was sickening.
The 2008 non acr can do high 7.20s and the 2010 acr laid down a record breaking 7.12.
Even the 90s vipers dominated t1
There are 9900 srt10 vipers made in the world from 03-2010...just how rare is that? Well for comparison there are over 10,000 gallardos in the world.
Viper is an very rare car with a heck of a pedigree and it commands attention.
Ive been to more than a few car meets were you had twenty differant variants of porshes all lined up. Anything from 60k caymans to 160k fully opioned gt2s tts ect.
Guess what. When the ten year old yellow srt10 rolls in with its lil 84k pricetag it steals the crowd as its a one off vehicle and not another variant of the same car like all the porshes lined up.
Are the p cars nice.sure. Not my idea of masculine but nice cars. Does a 160k p car look a lot differant than a 60k p car to most at the meets.
Nope
When you own a viper the experience is somthing differant. mine is modified at 620 hp with a cam air intake and tune but even stock its a rough obnoxious car with 13 inch rear tires that can and will kill you if you dont gradually learn the car.
But thats its charm. You litterally feel like your learning to become a bull rider and when you finally do get comfortable enough to drive with one hand and hit corners at high rates of speed you actually feel rewarded.
My nsx on the other hand with an adjustable suspension and very weak power delivery...i mastered the supercharged 350 hp in a few days. I drove it to get mcdonalds and my viper to challange my self and have the holy **** smile after a few curves and a 60-130 mph blast in 7 seconds.
I think p cars look generic despite the price much like corvettes and are for chicks. Perhaps i should own one for a few months before blatantly degradeing them. Perhaps you should do the same with the viper.
As for the vette they dont make that much torque. Try 350 tq for a non z06 and 430 tq for the z06.
My stock 99 viper put down 465 rwt and the stock 03 put down 490 tq on the dyno.
The problem with the vette that I felt when mine was 370 rwhp is that sure it felt fast but never uncontrollable. Its like the perfect meeting place for the vettes. Say 360 rwhp and 370 tq. Just enough to make you smile but also just under the number to start giving you fits..
So they daily drive this 50k car to work and soccer games ect and just push the gas pedal at any rpm in any gear day after day and it just hooks and goes.
To the point that on a 40 degree morning or even in the rain they are so used to the camry like stick and go that they forget their 50k daily driver is capable of 12.4 at 116 mph and then bam you see these videos.
My vette was a very good car. Its not the car. Its just not respecting weather and road conditions
Owned a head and cammed vette, supercharged nsx and on my third viper purchase.
Two adress the porshe owner. The 2003 srt viper was running 7.50s at the ring back in 2003. Nearly ten years ago before people even knew about the ring. Let me tell you high 7s back then was sickening.
The 2008 non acr can do high 7.20s and the 2010 acr laid down a record breaking 7.12.
Even the 90s vipers dominated t1
There are 9900 srt10 vipers made in the world from 03-2010...just how rare is that? Well for comparison there are over 10,000 gallardos in the world.
Viper is an very rare car with a heck of a pedigree and it commands attention.
Ive been to more than a few car meets were you had twenty differant variants of porshes all lined up. Anything from 60k caymans to 160k fully opioned gt2s tts ect.
Guess what. When the ten year old yellow srt10 rolls in with its lil 84k pricetag it steals the crowd as its a one off vehicle and not another variant of the same car like all the porshes lined up.
Are the p cars nice.sure. Not my idea of masculine but nice cars. Does a 160k p car look a lot differant than a 60k p car to most at the meets.
Nope
When you own a viper the experience is somthing differant. mine is modified at 620 hp with a cam air intake and tune but even stock its a rough obnoxious car with 13 inch rear tires that can and will kill you if you dont gradually learn the car.
But thats its charm. You litterally feel like your learning to become a bull rider and when you finally do get comfortable enough to drive with one hand and hit corners at high rates of speed you actually feel rewarded.
My nsx on the other hand with an adjustable suspension and very weak power delivery...i mastered the supercharged 350 hp in a few days. I drove it to get mcdonalds and my viper to challange my self and have the holy **** smile after a few curves and a 60-130 mph blast in 7 seconds.
I think p cars look generic despite the price much like corvettes and are for chicks. Perhaps i should own one for a few months before blatantly degradeing them. Perhaps you should do the same with the viper.
As for the vette they dont make that much torque. Try 350 tq for a non z06 and 430 tq for the z06.
My stock 99 viper put down 465 rwt and the stock 03 put down 490 tq on the dyno.
The problem with the vette that I felt when mine was 370 rwhp is that sure it felt fast but never uncontrollable. Its like the perfect meeting place for the vettes. Say 360 rwhp and 370 tq. Just enough to make you smile but also just under the number to start giving you fits..
So they daily drive this 50k car to work and soccer games ect and just push the gas pedal at any rpm in any gear day after day and it just hooks and goes.
To the point that on a 40 degree morning or even in the rain they are so used to the camry like stick and go that they forget their 50k daily driver is capable of 12.4 at 116 mph and then bam you see these videos.
My vette was a very good car. Its not the car. Its just not respecting weather and road conditions
Nice.
You have a Viper in Mexico?
#69
I've got to say, I've seen all the videos and for the most part it's driver stupidity when it comes to the crashes. They're probably some newbie in a car that is too much for them. I recently purchased my first Porsche. Couldn't afford a new one, settled on a 1999 996 nb. Love the car but I've always been a Corvette fanatic. Just sold my 66 coupe but still have my 03 Z06. Bone stock except for change in wheel/tire sizes. It CAN get away from you if you're not accustomed to it. Don't drive over your head and you won't have to have any excuses as to why you crashed.
#70
I've got to say, I've seen all the videos and for the most part it's driver stupidity when it comes to the crashes. They're probably some newbie in a car that is too much for them. I recently purchased my first Porsche. Couldn't afford a new one, settled on a 1999 996 nb. Love the car but I've always been a Corvette fanatic. Just sold my 66 coupe but still have my 03 Z06. Bone stock except for change in wheel/tire sizes. It CAN get away from you if you're not accustomed to it. Don't drive over your head and you won't have to have any excuses as to why you crashed.
Point being is that these cars can be driven pretty damn hard by just about anybody. Is that better engineering? Or just AWD in action? Some prefer them, some do not.
My mother (seems to not be able to drive 55mph, even in a 65mph...) was able to drive my GT-R around as if it was no big deal. How many of you would let your mothers/grandmothers drive your car and let them take your kids to a football game? What enables this in my 500HP+ car (600HP at the time), and not another (seat limitations removed)?
#71
Some people think that the more horsepower you get for the money the best buy you get. They simply dont know what performance means and whats the difference between a modern sports car and a "muscle" crap. Here is a typical example
#72
But I think this is the crux of the original post - when have you heard that a Porsche Turbo or GT-R was too much for a driver to handle (in recent times - 997 Turbo w/PDK, for example)?
Point being is that these cars can be driven pretty damn hard by just about anybody. Is that better engineering? Or just AWD in action? Some prefer them, some do not.
My mother (seems to not be able to drive 55mph, even in a 65mph...) was able to drive my GT-R around as if it was no big deal. How many of you would let your mothers/grandmothers drive your car and let them take your kids to a football game? What enables this in my 500HP+ car (600HP at the time), and not another (seat limitations removed)?
Point being is that these cars can be driven pretty damn hard by just about anybody. Is that better engineering? Or just AWD in action? Some prefer them, some do not.
My mother (seems to not be able to drive 55mph, even in a 65mph...) was able to drive my GT-R around as if it was no big deal. How many of you would let your mothers/grandmothers drive your car and let them take your kids to a football game? What enables this in my 500HP+ car (600HP at the time), and not another (seat limitations removed)?
Pretty simple to just point and shoot.
The main reason why you dont see AWD in most professional racing series, is because it takes less skill to drive an AWD car at its limit than it does a RWD on pretty much any surface. And this remains true, under pretty much any driving conditions. The only places where you even see AWD cars allowed to race professionally, are on loose/muddy/dirt/snow/ice terrain where again skill is needed to drive the car at its limit. People watch a race, because they want to see competition and skill.. not repetition and technology.
Dont take it personal.. I'm not saying driving a GTR requires no skill at all. But driving a GTR at its limit.. vs driving any other 500hp+ RWD sports car at its limit.. does require much LESS skill. It takes a driver with much more skill to control an extremely powerful RWD vehicle, and many more things that can go wrong with a lesser skilled driver, which is why its more exciting for race fans to watch.
Personally speaking, as a Corvette fan, I would love to see an AWD option offered on the next generation C7. It would please traditional Vette enthusiasts who wish to keep their huge burnout, fishtailing, American hotrods. And it would appeal to other enthusiasts who are more concerned with overall performance, traction and a vehicle thats easier to drive.. regardless of HP.
Last edited by Daekwan; 03-07-2012 at 04:43 PM.
#73
Do you think a drag racer really cares how many G's his vehicle can pull on a corner skidpad? Or how quickly his brakes will fade after continuous stops back to back?
Many people only care about horsepower, because its the only "performance" capability they are interested in. "How fast does it go?" is probably the most commonly asked question when someone is talking about any sports car, from any racing series, from pretty much any period in history. Its also the most common form of racing, where on any given opportunity.. you have one vehicle trying to go faster than another vehicle.. even if they are not technically "racing".
Of course there are those who prefer handling and braking over outright horsepower. Its the reason why cars like the Miata, Cayman, 3series BMW, etc are also popular. Fortunately.. all current bodystyle Corvettes handle well, brake well and have more than enough horsepower to satisfy most people. That still doesn't mean purchasing one, instantly makes you a skilled driver. Many people overestimate their driving ability and what their vehicle is capable of. There are also several experienced drivers who still have not mastered the torque output from a high-output V8, especially when paired with a RWD, lightweight vehicle. For the average-advanced driver.. traction control is the saving grace that allows these vehicles to enjoyed at their limit.
Last edited by Daekwan; 03-07-2012 at 04:40 PM.
#75
Some people think that the more horsepower you get for the money the best buy you get. They simply dont know what performance means and whats the difference between a modern sports car and a "muscle" crap. Here is a typical example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9rQ...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9rQ...layer_embedded
A trophy truck or high power buggy from the Baja 1000 would make your car look like it's running in reverse in a straight line, yet can your car complete the Baja 1000 run??? Or how about against a crazy 1000hp Sandrail car?? You do know there are people interested in other fun areas of racing beside road course racing right????
And btw going back to your Vipers are for straight line only comment, you do know there are Vipers that would obliterate those times and turn the boost down and destroy the 599GTB or TT on a road course? God I wish you would bring your car here to overlap you in a straight line only Viper lol.
Depends on how you measure "performance".
Do you think a drag racer really cares how many G's his vehicle can pull on a corner skidpad? Or how quickly his brakes will fade after continuous stops back to back?
Many people only care about horsepower, because its the only "performance" capability they are interested in. "How fast does it go?" is probably the most commonly asked question when someone is talking about any sports car, from any racing series, from pretty much any period in history. Its also the most common form of racing, where on any given opportunity.. you have one vehicle trying to go faster than another vehicle.. even if they are not technically "racing".
Of course there are those who prefer handling and braking over outright horsepower. Its the reason why cars like the Miata, Cayman, 3series BMW, etc are also popular. Fortunately.. all current bodystyle Corvettes handle well, brake well and have more than enough horsepower to satisfy most people. That still doesn't mean purchasing one, instantly makes you a skilled driver. Many people overestimate their driving ability and what their vehicle is capable of. There are also several experienced drivers who still have not mastered the torque output from a high-output V8, especially when paired with a RWD, lightweight vehicle. For the average-advanced driver.. traction control is the saving grace that allows these vehicles to enjoyed at their limit.
Do you think a drag racer really cares how many G's his vehicle can pull on a corner skidpad? Or how quickly his brakes will fade after continuous stops back to back?
Many people only care about horsepower, because its the only "performance" capability they are interested in. "How fast does it go?" is probably the most commonly asked question when someone is talking about any sports car, from any racing series, from pretty much any period in history. Its also the most common form of racing, where on any given opportunity.. you have one vehicle trying to go faster than another vehicle.. even if they are not technically "racing".
Of course there are those who prefer handling and braking over outright horsepower. Its the reason why cars like the Miata, Cayman, 3series BMW, etc are also popular. Fortunately.. all current bodystyle Corvettes handle well, brake well and have more than enough horsepower to satisfy most people. That still doesn't mean purchasing one, instantly makes you a skilled driver. Many people overestimate their driving ability and what their vehicle is capable of. There are also several experienced drivers who still have not mastered the torque output from a high-output V8, especially when paired with a RWD, lightweight vehicle. For the average-advanced driver.. traction control is the saving grace that allows these vehicles to enjoyed at their limit.
Next he'll be posting a vid of a top fueli letting off the gas and showing how that muscle crap can't beat a stock TT b/c of that
Last edited by Surfer; 03-07-2012 at 10:54 PM.