Would you consider it proof if I told you that I was the guy RSC Tuning paid to fly out from Southern California to the Virage (the same Virage I had already installed RSC high flow secondaries & a RSC Exhaust) owner's house in Las Vegas to upload the RSC file & show the afore mentioned owner how to use the RSC livetune gadget?

 

First you say you use the ford protocols, now you say you create your own map drivers to “successfully” tune the vehicle.

We can go through a list of every tool we own, but what good would that do?

We don’t claim to be a tool manufacturer. If a tool does not communicate with the ECU to read/write the files, how do you claim to even program it? Paramount tuning out of West London tuned your Aston Martins. Why wouldn’t you use your own tools? We or no one else has ever heard of you being a tool manufacturer. We know you outsource your tuning. You keep mentioning the DB9 and Vantage which is totally off the topic…that’s nothing new.
Every tuner tunes differently, hence the results are different.

When it’s convenient for us and the customer, then we’ll put it on the dyno.

The funniest thing about all this: you have Galpin Auto Sports as one of your dealers. Why did they contact us and not you about this specific vehicle? I can give you a short list of shops listed on your website that you might want to remove

 

I don't think you understand the difference between a communication protocol and a map driver, which is richly ironic considering that you are supposed to be ECU Tuning 'experts.' Yes, we used Ford listed protocols to read and write successfully to the V8 Vantage and DB9, long before the tool manufacturers actually realized that the protocols were the same for multiple Ford applications as they are for the Astons. We also used the same protocol (although we used it in that case under the DB9 listing) to successfully read & write to a Virage on January 3rd 2012. I keep mentioning the DB9 & V8 Vantage to illustrate a point - there are multiple different map drivers for each of these cars depending upon the model year, but that doesn't mean that the communication protocol is any different. If you read a file off one of these cars and the address locations are different, if you write your own map drivers like we do, then you can simply identify the correct locations for that application and make changes to the correct addresses. If you depend upon your tool manufacturer to write map drivers for you then yes, you would be limited to what they provide. But that has nothing to do with the communcation protocol, you seem to have the two confused as one, which is why you pose the question "If a tool does not communicate with the ECU to read/write the files, how do you claim to even program it?" The tool we use has been able to communicate with the ECU for the Virage from the outset, chances are the tool you use could too, the problem is figuring out the addresses & writing the map driver, a differentiation that you clearly don't understand.

You're not exactly Mr Current Events are you? Paramount Performance filed for insolvency 6 months ago: http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/insol...idation-notice

Furthermore, no they don't tune our Aston Martins or any other vehciles for that matter. They aren't even a tuning provider they are client of a tuning provider. Yes, once upon a time in 2008 they did tune a couple of ECUs for us for applications we did not have the EProm tools for, that's not exactly a secret though.

We do all of our own tuning in house and have map drivers for all sorts of map locations within the AM ECU that Alientech, CMD, Sniper or any of the other companies haven't got a clue about. Alientech (who's tools we use for the Aston) has awful map drivers for the AM's, that's why we write our own!!! Actually, thinking about it, no, you're right, we do outsource our ECU Tuning... to our sister company Racing Sport Concepts Europe....

"Every tuner tunes differently...." that is your answer? That is why you're able to contravene the laws of physics and extract over 50BHP from a Virage (in California mind you where you're limited to 91 Octane Fuel.) You're going to put this car on a dyno you say... so answer my question then, you quoted some very specific output increases. Where did those numbers come from if you never put the car on a dyno? Come on guys, give me a break, if you're going to quote figures at least quote something vaguely believable.

And as far as Galpin goes you're right, I should take them off our list. We gave them a bunch of consignment product years ago which they 'lost' and it was a battle getting it paid for. I have plenty of dealers listed on our website, and not one of them features a restriction of trade. They are all free to do business with whomever they please. HG Motorsports in San Diego for example chooses to tune their BMW & Mercedes applications with Renntech. Their choice, doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I have nothing more to say, you guys jump in here with some absurd power claims, claim boldly to be the first in the world and then throw your toys out of the pram with a bunch of lies and baseless accusations because you don't like hearing that we did it months ago? I'm pretty sure my dealer John from New Tickford Street in San Diego (an Aston Factory Trained technician with 10+ years experience) just came on here and told you that he programmed the car himself.

Good luck with your tunes and I look forward to seeing that dyno sheet.

 

My post was not a joke (not sure why it was ignored). I'm no shill for RSC either (check my threads), I just believe in posting raw data to support claims. You want to convince people? Well, lets start with the bare minimum.

 

RSC, you talk and talk - why don´t YOU simply post a dyno? Still waiting....

 

I was going to say that if anyone could add 50+ hp gain to my DBS off a straight tune, well then Sign me Up!!

 

A dyno for what? I'm not the one claiming that you can extract 50+ BHP from a Virage with ECU Tuning alone. I'm just saying that we programmed one back in January. A known and respected independent party who actually programmed it has come on here and confirmed that he himself carried it out. Did we dyno it? No. Are we claiming wildly optimistic but curiously precise gains without supporting it with any technical information as to how they are possible? No.

Since you're a pretty new member on 6speed and don't appear to have posted in the Aston forum before the ETG started posting in here (I notice they tuned your Bentley Continental GT), you're probably not aware that we have posted dyno information for a variety of our mods, as well as having a variety of independent feedback and dyno information from other 6speed members.

I can tell you, as I have done what is a reasonable expectation for any of the V12 engined Astons based on ignition timing advance and fuel trim alteration, as has previously been stated there's no point in raising the RPM limit on the V12 cars, the BHP peaks before 6000 and then drops off due to the restriction on the exhaust side from the tractor manifold.

If you think the fact that I don't have a dyno graph for a Virage means we're bull**** artists (as you seem to be suggesting) then more power to you. I believe the body of positive reviews in this forum and our reputation for setting truthful and realistic expectations speaks for itself.

 

Im going to haveto step in here and chime in because we have done business with BOTH of these companies on multiple occasions...

ECU Tuning Group AKA SINGH Autosport AKA Jags Gill, is someone that we will forever REFUSE to do business with. One recent experience that we have had resulted in a $5000 supercharger being replaced in a BRAND NEW Jaguar XKR-S with 250 miles as ETG made false claims that the mods were reversible and they had done these upgrades before with success.... They took ZERO responsibility for the supercharger pulley coming off, and the software not being up to par to our standards or any other with half decent vision that could see the RPM needle jumping up and down 2000 RPM. They also made plenty of claims that the pulley was an "ARDEN Germany" pulley, which when we then referenced Arden in Germany, they had no clue who Jags/ETG/Singh was.... We also know for a fact that ETG outsources their software as well because when we asked for the vehicle to be returned to stock form (Stock file to be put back in) we was suddenly informed that that was not possible until tomorrow as the company in the UK they deal with had gone home for the evening. With that being said, this company to me is what we like to call "YES MEN" they say yes to every car out there just to get the sale... I just want this to be known to the people out there to stay far away from them.

RSC Tuning - Since our ETG fiasco earlier this year, we have used RSC pulley/software upgrade on countless RangeRover's and Astons and to be honest, could not be happier. The overall quality of their tune really impresses me as does Stuart ability to provide tech support.

 

So actually you are telling you tuned the first of these cars without even putting it on a dyno?
Now thats professional, lol.....

BTW its a shame how vendors on this forum attck each other. Not only here, but in general. You all seem not to have enough work if you have time for this.

 

Actually I find these discussions interesting and often informative, so lets keep the attacks going

 

Stuart,

I can't believe I'm sitting here reading this nonsense you're posting. This is going in circles and to be frankly honest with you, we do not have time for you or your company.All you do is keep contradicting yourself and wasting our time. If you have an issue, you can address it on the phone or in person.

We just don't understand why you wouldn't post the Virage if you were the first company to program. What's worth talking about?

 

Everybody knows there are always two sides to the story and Tag failed to include some valuable information.

Read on..

Tag Motorsport called us about an XKR-s which a customer inquired about an ECU and Pulley upgrade. Alex and Tag insisted that their own mechanics can install the pulley because he didn’t want to pay for $200 in labor to have one of our mechanics come and install it. The car was tuned by us and Tag Motorsport put the pulley on incorrectly (to save $200). One of the ETG representative on hand who was there watching the install even pointed out that the pulley was not flush with the supercharger shaft…to which Alex said my guys are trained mechanics and are capable of putting on a simple pulley. If the pulley is lined up correctly with the belt and the rest of the pulleys, then the pulley would not have come off. I don’t understand how this is a tuner’s error, more of an installation. Due to an incorrectly installed pulley, the belt got damaged, and the fact that it wasn’t lined up correctly, the belt forced the pulley off the shaft. This happened on a Friday afternoon. Alex than had an unprofessional panic attack yelling and screaming at the ETG rep leading him to call Jags to drive down from Los Angeles in rush hour traffic to resolve the installation error (TAG error). When Jags arrived at the shop at around 6pm, Tag’s employees did not want to hang around and fix the car (great customer service). Alex too was under pressure and being threatened by his girlfriend to go and see her (again great customer service). At this point, we said to put the pulley on is not a very difficult task. Any competent mechanic could perform this duty to which we offered to have one of our mechanics do it. Jags then listed shops that have carried out this type of install like…. Platinum Motorsport, GI Motorsport, Sprewell Racing, Topline Motoring, Kar Tunz, California Wheels, 212 Motoring, Kar Toyz, After FX Customs to which Alex said all those shops are not reputable and incompetent.

The tool being used to program the Jaguar had an issue, which did not affect the programming, but had an online updated that couldn’t be completed at that very moment so we had to wait until the morning. Loading the stock file was as simple as reloading it.

After a couple days, the supercharger belt arrived at Tag and over the supervision of an ETG rep, the pulley and belt were installed CORRECTLY. After taking the vehicle for a test drive, the car performed and behaved as it should have. As we pulled in to the shop, even though Alex was satisfied with the tune, he requested that we put the vehicle back to stock. After the vehicle was programmed back to stock and Alex said he would take care of the rest (putting the stock pulley back on), the ETG rep then left and proceeded back to Los Angeles.

Approximately three weeks later, we received a call from Alex saying he replaced the supercharger because he or any of his mechanics were not capable in putting the stock pulley back on. If a company cannot put a stock pulley back onto the vehicle, then I’m sorry to say, they shouldn’t be in business.

In the end, the car was completed successfully and no funds were exchanged because Tag did not want to pay.

Tag’s demeanor around the ETG rep and customer was completely unacceptable and unprofessional.

Who was the ‘Yes Man’ saying he could install a pulley when obviously he couldn’t and then decides to replace a supercharger because putting a stock pulley on a shaft was too difficult?

 

The process of achieving a good tune for a car involves very little use of a dyno, unless all you care about is WOT running in which case fine. Frankly I'd be more concernd about a company ONLY using a dyno to write a map for a car.

Anyway, like I said, the Virage/DB9 are extremely similar, it isn't as though we don't have a wealth of information to draw on.

I don't think vendors on this forum attack each other, in fact I think the Aston section of 6speed is one of the most respectful and productive forums out there. I didn't attack anyone, I just happend to correct someone but if we come under attack ourselves then I will defend our reputation where I see slander.

 

I dont want to start a battle. HOWEVER neither Jags or his assistant were able to go ahead and put these things on. After countless hours of re-search and reaching our contacts at Jaguar corporate, we found out that the factory pulley is actually pressed on from the factory assembly line onto the shaft... After it has been removed, there is absolutely no way of re-installing it. As far as my customer service is concerned, Unfortunately any capable tech will tell you that when the day is over, and they are overwhelmed with a situation, its better not to force it, and begin again in the morning with a clean mind. So by telling me I cant be in business because i cant put a stock pulley back on, maybe you should do your homework before getting into something thats a bit over your head

Regardless. I wish ETG the best, i hope you and Jags are able to push past some of these speedbumps and are move forward providing your customers with a good products.

 

(grabbing another bag of popcorn...). Good stuff