This was talked about at length in earlier threads. The V12V feels much faster and is obviously a much more exotic power plant and car, but the performance numbers are very similar to the new S especially. As many say, these are not numbers cars otherwise we would all be driving GTR's. It's about the experience and the V12V is high on that list.

 

@black penguin:

Most of the Lambos now being sold are 550-2s , and O am glad for it. As far as new car value they are by ad the best. They are o. Avg $20-30k cheaper than their 4wd counterparts and you actually get a much better dynamic performance package.

If you want to buy a Lambo ... GET 2WD, trust me it's the best option. The 2WD Lambos also come with a special exhaust system whose sound was chosen by Valentino Balboni himself. It's the most raw sounding of all the exhausts. I honestly think it still sounds Better than my superlegerra. With that said the superlegerra is amazing in many other aspects, but as far as pure driving dynamics, the 2wd Bicolore is still king.

@detomaso, you are 100% correct, thanks for the PDF attachment.

 

@detomaso and 007 Vantage

How cars feel is going to become the differentiator between cars. Speed has become easy and cheap. Especially 0-60 speed. Creating 400-500 hp is not as hard or expensive as it used to be. The automated trannies are finding even more time. Chasis dynamics and brake modulation still separates the great cars. But it's a game of inches. There are so many cars are in the 3 to 4 second range (a few are hitting 2.8), how much faster do you want to go?? (electric cars will change the game again with mountains of immediate torque, seamless power and low drag bodies and have small frontal areas that don't need to suck in huge quantities of air)

At what point is it like wishing premature ejaculation on yourself?? On the street you can't even wring the neck of many of these cars. You have to stop before you get started.

Very soon the stop watch times between low cost muscle cars and high end exotics is not going to be all that different (many are already there now). Its not going to be how much speed or power you make, but rather how you make and deliver it. People will buy cheaper cars and gloat at how they are faster than more expensive cars and those people will completely miss the point. Technology has flattened the numbers game, but not the experience game.

On the track things might be different, but for street cars I'm more interested in the total experience:
Does the car work harmoniously?
Does it feel like I'm driving music?
Does it reward every sense?
Does it make me want to drive?
Does it scare me a little?
Do I feel in control?
Does it make me want to become a better driver?
Is it almost to the point of art?
Is it an experience that will always be amazing, no matter how much the world moves on.

For me those are the truly great cars.

Other cars will offer ultimate speed and bragging rights, but they will be a different experience to an Aston with big V12's singing like a choir.


.

 

Haven't read every post in this thread word for word, but just wanted to do a quick post of my own to say that I haven't experienced any "flatness" or whatever beyond 5000 rpm. To the contrary, the power seems to build steadily right to the redline. In fact, one thing I had to get used to in moving to the V12 was speeding up my shift reflexes because it's so easy to over do it and hit the revlimiter when you bury your right foot.

 

I'll have to ask the man himself next time we get a chance to hang out! ... he did our DC Summer Euro Tour this year, he's a really cool guy very down to earth and fun to drive with on tour, he grabbed the keys to a LP-570-4 roadster and joined us that day ! Here's a pic of me meeting Balboni at Ferrari/Lambo of Washington this summer with for the Eurotour event, that morning he delivered a nice presentation on Lamborhini, past and future, and the storoes behind his close friend and company founder Ferrucio Lamborghini. The morning presentation and breakfast was followed by a 3.5 hr tour capped off by a picnic caterered bbq! It was a great day for us car guys

 

Agreed. I've seen the R&T numbers before and was impressed with what they achieved with the S. I'd wager that a good half second or more of that 0-100 time is down to the gearbox; a fairer comparison would be a 4.7 MT.

 

I think the brakes on the V12V are stunning. That was my biggest surprise.

 

^^^ if that's the case you should try the brakes on a Scud or a Porsche PCCB equipped GT2 or GT3 ... your eyes will pop out of your head.

 

@black penguin- 100% agree.

@sunir- look at the test data I attached higher on this page. The brakes of the V12V were also the biggest surprise for me. It stops shorter than all the Porsches they tested (including GT2 RS and Turbo), the ferraris, and every other car except the zo6 and zr1 vettes.

 

The 4.7L V8V (non-S) has returned 0-100 times of between 9.98 and 10.3, and 1/4 mile speeds usually of 112 - 113 (I've seen a best of 115 and a worst of 111). There doesn't seem to be any difference between the manual and the SS (6-spd) gearboxes (the best figures were for a manual car). The figures are from R&T, C&D, MT and Autocar.

 

Guys all the road and track and car rags stuff aside.....I've been on track for 11+ years since my early to mid 20's and driven a heck of a lot of different sports cars inlcuding race cars, open wheel/downforce cars, competition and been instructing the last several years, was close to getting a Grand Am ride in 2004/5 but didn't happen...

Anyways non of those stats mean much...you have to get these cars out in real life and drive them, there is a LOT to be said about repeatability of performance, how many laps can you go full 10/10ths and how does the car feel lap after lap, brake fade is a big issue in road cars. I'd love to take a V12V out for 15 - 20 laps and see how the car feels, maybe a student at the next AMOC track day will want to do that who knows... I can tell you I know for a fact that GT3RS and RSR are incredible lap after lap, the Scud is amazing for a road car, and the Ferrari Challenge cars are good too but a bit finicky...I would love to get my hands on a DBR9 or Vantage AM Vantage race car.

oh and nothing touches an open wheel car (forumula Atlantic, continental etc...etc..)...I love downforce cars...period!

 

^^^ Of course. But a question was asked

 

I had to post about the 135. I have driven a 135, and stock there's no way it runs 0-60 in 4.1 seconds. The TT-RS benefits from 4wd and launch control and is very rapid 0-60, but then again the times that were around 4 seconds were with a roll out. 4.1 is quicker than a 996 turbo, which I've also driven and that was way faster than a 135.

here's a comparison between the 370z and the 135, and they post almost identical numbers. The 135 posted 5.1 0-60 and 4.8 with a rollout.

http://www.insideline.com/nissan/370...-bmw-135i.html

^^I'm not arguing about which car is better, fyi, just posting a comparison for perspective

 

also, the v12 vantage suspension setup is much nicer stock than a v8 vantage. I don't know how much coilovers help the v8, but stock it does this weird hopping thing at the rear where the v12 apparently doesn't.

 

007/penguin - both of your posts were really insightful. I am considering of selling my v8v next spring/summer in order to move into an V10 R8. I was originally considering an 07ish gallardo, but have since decided against it. I like the more undercover look of the R8.

In regards to the exhaust being too quiet, I started one up, and the exhaust was plenty loud...perhaps because it was on start up? Are there any good aftermarket exhausts that will open that sound up? Is the R8 louder than your v8v was?