Yeah, I get that. But I think there was loads of room between the full One-77 spec and what they launched in the Vanquish. I think they made a huge strategic mistake. Only us brand loyalists are happy to not care about max bHP and other numbers.

The bigger brand impact is that Aston Martin made a new flagship car that isn't as fast as it's peers. No one cares that an S might come out some day. Aston Martin has to sell cars today and had the chance for the Vanquish to show some class leading panache. Instead it gets qualified praise.

So those 76 people can feel good about their exclusive car while the brand suffers. Phenomenally stupid business plan. No wonder they need a development partner.

 

We shall see how far it evolves from the original reports.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...-amg-platforms

 

I can't say I'm surprised. I am surprised that the Lagonda won't be released until 2017... Will Aston even be around or be a factor when its silver bullet arrives (sarcasm here, I'm not a fan of the Lagonda at all)?

 

My comment on Autocar's site:

An "Aston Martin" that is a Mercedes underneath (no matter how modified) is NOT an Aston Martin. Period, end of. Remember that this is the same Dr. Bez who brought us the abomination that was the Cygnet (thankfully now gone) -- and told us that it was as "authentic" an Aston Martin as a DB5...

I bought an Aston Martin because I wanted an Aston Martin. If I want an M-B/AMG, I'll buy an M-B/AMG. I will not buy an "Aston" built on a M-B/AMG platform.

 

So your saying you'd rather buy a Aston Martin with a Jaguar engine, a italian gearbox that blows clutch's yearly cause of lack of engineering, and Volvo electronics??

The SUV concept main idea's planned from the start was to be on the MB chassis or VH platform..if the MB platform was to be used, the powertrain was going to pair up with McLaren..again these are just rumors but A.M concepts don't drift far..it's a SUV, not a track car, why invest all that cash to make a VH chassis to fit the SUV...waste of cash M.B is on your door step with designs already crach tested and proven to work!!

M.B will not be used for chassis's on A.M cars..A.M will be using the AMG engine platform to design there own engine out of the AMG design...aka "JUST" like A.M did with the Jaguar engines..and instead of using ""Volvo"" electronics, M.B electronics are going to be used...So instead of buying a Aston Martin with a Jaguar inspired engine that dates back to the 90's and Volvo electronics from 2005 Volvo models on a 2013 A.M, your going to be offered a Aston Martin with a AMG inspired engine with M.B electronics..it's not a bad deal, it's a great deal, some ppl need to stop looking at the cup half empty..just my 2cents

 

I completely agree with you. Aston needs to do this to stay relevant. They don't have the budget for R&D to build and test from scratch. Instead taking something proven and then adding Aston specific tuning and mods will bring cars to market faster, make them more current, and be more reliable. It's a win win if you ask me.

I think the only purist car company left is Morgan. I'd love to have one but you can't get them in the USA. At least not the one I want.

 

I guess I need to say it again Irish, as you clearly know, the "Jaguar inspired" engine as you call it in the V8V has its own unique crank, rods, bearings, pistons, rings, heads, cams, valves, the block isn't interchangeable, etc., etc., etc. If AM does the same thing with the AMG engine, then GREAT! I've said this over and over again -- if the new engine is "bespoke" in the same manner as the current one, it should be fantastic. If it's a retuned version of an AMG engine, in the manner that, e.g., the Bentley Conti V8 engine is vs. the Audi engine, then I'm not interested at all.

About the Italian gearbox, I love the one in my V8V, and like most people here I've had no clutch problems. And at least we have the choice of a manual gearbox! I can choose to worry about clutch life if I want to, and you're adding to the perception that Aston's clutches are somehow weaker than various other exotics, which is untrue.

Electronics: I've never said or suggested that AM doesn't need to get up to date on this, and I have no issue whatsoever with using Mercedes-based electronics. That said, the Volvo-based electronics in my Aston have been FAR more reliable than the Benz electronics in my current Benzes, one of which in particular has given me a LOT of trouble. It needs to go back to the Mercedes dealer yet again with a lengthy list of electronic problems.

Platform sharing: This is a complete and total disaster. I don't like it with the SUV idea, nor do I like the SUV idea itself for so many reasons. Yes, of course I understand the business thinking behind it. More to the point, however, is that -- unsurprisingly to me -- with Bez saying he's considering using Benz platforms (seemingly at this point for an SUV), how can anyone know how far he would go with that? Who's to say he wouldn't build an "Aston" on an SL platform, for example? I like your confidence that it won't happen, but after the horrific Cygnet (thankfully now gone) there is every reason to be concerned. Once platform sharing begins, it's a slippery slope...

 

"... adding specific Aston tuning and mods" to what? To a Benz? That's a great way to destroy Aston Martin and make it merely another expensive car. The specialness, the charm, will cease to exist. Such a car would just be a Mercedes with AM branding, and that would be a fake. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it were a a Mercedes (or anything else) with "Ferrari specific tuning and mods"???

An Aston isn't an Aston because it's "current." Don't do it expediently or cheaply -- spend the money (like Ford did) and do it properly!

 

Manuals are dead. I hate to say it because I personally love a manual but they are dead. The Vanquish doesn't have a manual option, the V12VS doesn't have one and the V8VS didn't have one till they brought it back. None of the competition offer manuals anymore. Aston need to step up to a DCT (or get the F1 Superfast from Ferrari) ASAP and it makes no sense to develop it on their own.

Look at the summary of reviews on the V12VS for reference. Their technology is shooting themselves in the foot. I predict that Aston either offers a manual option in 2015 or the V12VS tanks because people dislike the gearbox. The V12V is a better car at this point and it's 2+ years old. I was 90% sure I was going to buy a V12VS but now it's a definite no and instead I'll be looking elsewhere come spring. I'm not a new buy. I'm a former 2 Aston owner and I'm definitely not alone.

I personally don't think Bentley, Rolls Royce, or Lamborghini are any worse off because of the reuse with their parents. I get where you are coming from but Aston isn't surviving on their current plan so something has to give. Ferrari (and McLaren to a point) can continue to develop their own because they have massive additional revenue streams that pay for all of their R&D and continue to make them profitable. Aston doesn't. I'd rather see Aston Martin make cars for years to come instead of die. If they have to make concessions to stay afloat, so be it.

 

Sad but true. DCT or bust IMO. What's the point of single clutch automated manuals today? Absolutely none, that's what. Outdated technology. Take away my clutch pedal and my gear lever, well I'm not happy, but give me the best automated system possible so that I feel that I'm at least gaining something (lightning fast, smooth upshifts and downshifts no matter what the position of my right foot or the RPM). Don't give me some half baked nonsense in between that requires me to compensate for its shortcomings!

 

No, manuals are NOT dead. Seriously endangered, but not dead. Aston still offers a manual in the V8 range, and they added the manual to the V8S because buyers asked for it. Porsche still offers a manual 'box in the 991 Carrera (and Boxster/Cayman), though very sadly not in the GT3 or Turbo. BMW continues to offer a manual 'box in many cars, including the M5 and M6, and the next M3 will offer a manual. Jaguar, I'm told, is going to offer the F-Type with a manual (currently, it only comes with the 8-spd torque converter auto -- no DCT). The V12VS is off my list not because it doesn't offer a DCT, but because it doesn't offer a true manual.

To be clear, I completely agree that AM must offer a DCT. But I really hope they continue to offer a manual also -- it would be the only true exotic to do so. That would be a unique selling point, and a very powerful one to those of us who strongly prefer three-pdeals.

 

Just because Aston is currently having trouble doesn't mean that the way forward is to take the cheap way out and make AMs out of Benzes. What's the point of an Aston that's really a Benz???

I want to see Aston Martin make cars for years to come also, but "adding specific Aston tuning and mods" to Benz platforms and engines, well, Aston may as well be dead in that scenario because those cars would not be Astons. David Brown decided not to drop an American V8 into Astons when he owned the company because, as he put it, such a car "won't be an Aston Martin."

Ford gave Aston the money to develop the current range of cars. These cars are Aston Martins, and they were very successful and profitable. There is new investment, and there is no reason why this can't be done again.

 

They would no more be Benzes than Aston are Fords. Were they really Fords?

The car business has changed dramatically in the last 10 years diven by regulation. Infrastructure and technology investments have to be spread broadly across product lines.

Ford did not divest Aston because it was profitable. It was a failed strategy for Ford.

 

Porsche promised that the 991 GT3 would be a manual and switched to the PDK which really pissed off the purists. They still switched and instead are trying to convince their angry base that a DCT is ok. Ferrari stopped offering manuals after the F430. Lambo stopped after the Gallardo. Aston does offer a manual on a ~10 year old car but none of their new cars offer the option (Virage, DB9, Vanquish). Across the board, less than 10% of buyers get a manual if the option is available. Manuals are a retro option because there is no reason to buy one anymore. DCTs are better in every way. Sure the manual is more fun for the older crowd but the younger generations don't want manuals just like they don't even know what a roll up window is or a car without power locks. It's dead.

 

I agree that the manual transmission is dying. It's only a matter of (a short period of) time. I'm also a fan of the manual transmission but the reality is that people buy automated manual transmissions if they're offered. If I recall correctly, Ferrari stopped producing manual transmissions not because the automated manual is faster but because almost no one was buying the manual transmission cars.

To me, this situation looks like the transition between film and digital cameras a decade ago. The purists objected to digital cameras when they came out and expressed their preference for the analog option, but it was only a matter of time before film cameras were a novelty.