Yes, I'm quite aware of that which is why is said flat tq curve WITHOUT losing max peak tq. That Evoms link you posted shows HP continuously increasing to red-line in their tune.

No problem. It all comes down to road performance anyhow. We can debate dynos forever. 800 ponies is nothing to sneeze at.

Not true. You can call me troll or whatever if that makes you feel better. What I've pointed out is a valid critique. I was not slinging mud at you or the OP. You post a dyno, so I commented from a tuning perspective only. You can deny it all you want but facts are facts whether you like them or not. If you simply just maintain hp at 5500+, you increase your struggle to over come wind resistance as speed increases since that is exponential.

As far as my name goes. You can't be serious? My first name is John but who in their right mind would post their complete full name on an public internet site.

 

My dip in HP and everything was so terrible it only netted me a 4.89 on a stock motor. I worked with Tony and went a 5.0 in the heat, the 4.89 was in the cooler weather (low 70s vs 100). I have a standalone on the car now, and the power was almost the same when Tony tuned it so I guess the fact Tuning Concepts holds probably more records than any tuner in the US means he doesn't know what he's doing either... Shrug?

 

That's an incredibly fast time for full weight (?) P-car, congratulations. This is what I was asking about what the OP can expect from this set-up.

Can you post your dyno of your 4.89 car? Yes, tq will dip but that doesn't mean hp dips or stay flat. DId you use A3076s also?

 

I greatly respect both EVOMS and EPL, but two clarifications. The link I posted shows a huge improvement in GT2RS midrange TQ at the expense of "flatness," and HP basically table-flat for the last 1,000 rpm instead of rising to redline.

Second, you suggest that max peak torque could be sustained, but torque after (perhaps before) max peak torque could be raised near the same max level? I just don't see that happening. To have a flatter torque plateau and rising power curve, you'd need to cut down the max peak torque hump, losing midrange hp/tq and area under the curve. If you could tune for holding max torque constant and raise TQ all around that rpm point to flatten out - I'm sure it would look that way already.

 

Hey Tony & Mark. Great stock internal setup. I was wondering what the difference might be between Mark's setup (bigger turbos with the HP & TQ capped for safety) and an Alpha 28 with H2O/meth set at the limit. I would assume peak number would not be a whole lot different, but the overall dynamics would be considerably different. The smaller turbos would spool quicker and peak number be at a lower RPM (?) What would the difference be in area under the curve terms?

THANKS!

 

Full weight 996TT (3650 with straight pipes and my 190lb self) that at the time was running in a full AWD configuration on 19's (Nitto INVO out back PS2's up front). Here is the dyno from Boost Logic's dyno



The turbos were not A3076's. I was running PT5857's NON-BB with a .82 a/r. This is the setup that went 10.08 @ 148.8 and a best of 149mph full weight but running without the driveshaft on a CCW Drag pack.

100% 38k mile stock motor, BL Turbo kit, BL 6" intercoolers, BL fuel system, MS109 and originally I had an EPL Tune but when we decided the motor would be built we started moving to the vPro setup that Justin had on his personal 996TT

 

I will admit I am the first one to troll a post, but I do see you are bringing up valid points. So I figured I'd answer as much as I can. Tony and Justin have held my hand through a lot of my journey with these cars. I've had the 996TT for 4.5 years now and it's gone from staying basically stock to this now. My background prior was nitrous and LSx motors. Was the 4th or 5th nitrous LSx based car in the 8s almost 6 years ago. I had never owned a turbo car prior to the 996TT and we did the first turbo setup (Mark's turbos prior to the A3076 were my turbos) in the garage without a lift. Which is cake but injectors, intake pipes, etc... are all VERY interesting if you don't have a lift LOL!

 

Thanks for posting the graph and sharing your info. You have an awesome set-up. I've run nitrous before too and even rigged up an O2 charge injection system but then proceeded to blow the engine. So no more nitrous for me. I admit, I don't own a 996tt but have a possibility of picking one up. Just wanted to get an idea of what to expect with certain mods. It;s good to see stock motor can achieve those numbers. Why do you think your hp dipped then rises back up?

 

The 996TT has been a fun platform so far. Almost 3 years ago it was anything of 1.5bar or 650rwhp was going to blow your motor instantly. I ran from 20k miles to almost 39k miles with between 650rwhp and 868rwhp. Now can I tell you "oh yeah mid 800rwhp and a stock motor is perfectly fine". No it's not and there are horror stories that I was lucky to bypass. I told myself one day I'd do a big write up of what we learned during the motor tear down, etc... The motor build wasn't a must, and it actually got started because I left one nub on the actual 3rd gear itself. I just haven't cared (yeah it sounds bad) to do a huge write up. During the build I had a lot of stuff happen (lost my father unexpectedly a few weeks after I decided to build the motor) and now that I have the car I have been trying to enjoy every minute of it I can. The last month and a half I've probably driven the car 6 of the 7 days of the week. Everything can be done on these car easier than some make it out to be. There are a lot of vendors on this forum that will do anything they can to help you. I've talked to and gotten help/tips from every single major vendor/tuner.

*EDIT* The dip is still there even at 1040rwhp. I thought the heads/cams paired with the 997TT intake would fix it. I rev the car a lot higher than almost every 996TT build so that dip is a lot more apparent. In the next few months we are going to build an intake for the car, and when that goes into work I will be posting about it.

 

No, I'm not suggesting sustained max peak tq. I know that is impossible. What you want to avoid is tq dipping too fast as the rpm increases such that hp decreases or remains stagnant.

From the TiAL post, the A3076 are designed for mid-range which is fine. That explains the shortcomings up top but then EPL said it was holding back due to stock motor? Who knows. I checked on the TiAL website but could not find a/r ratio? What is the a/r for A3076? I guess it's less than Powell's 0.82 given the choking up top? Just asking.

 

Hell yea, that is going to be one quick car, for sure!
Nice results, Tony and Prodigy!

It is pretty apparent there is a lot left in this setup above 5200 rpm, given an upgrade to rods if desired.
Keeping it together is where it is at!

 

yeah we have to meet up sometime i'll tell you one thing.. I am glad you and blockhead don't live in my area or I would be jealous and putting my car on a lift to mod some more but seriously maybe we can plan a cheese stake run or something down there

 

Chris - can you comment on stock rods and stock motor in general. How were your rods when the motor came apart. Did you notice any deformation, stress cracks? Its true the power bar has been shifting up, but as thats happening people are getting closer to the true limit of the motor.

+1,000,000

Im def up to meet up and hang out. Greg told me he went up to your Chatham meet recently and it was nice.

yeah i was actually going to ask you if you came acorss any new good detialing stuff. some of my waxes got old and i want to buy some new stuff to do my car sometime soon. its fairly dirty from sitting in a garage for a month waiting for all the parts to get here.

 

Sorry to hear about the loss of your dad. That's rough. If you find the time, I'm sure people would find your experiences very valuable.

Your "dip" appears to be more transient than anything, not the same as the OP. Is your timing and fueling solid in that region? I looked up the compressor map for the A3076 which I assume are the same as the GT3076. They can flow 50 lbs/min at 1.5 bar at 68% efficiency. That's not bad. I don't know what 996tt motors are rated but at 10 hp/lb that's 1000 hp. It seems like there is definitely room to grow with these turbos. Has anyone hit higher than 800 hp with the alpha's?

 

Per Jake @ Tial the newest billet Alphas with FP HTA setup and Tials custom hotside that I have flow 60 #s.