I have a 2015 Bentley Flying Spur with a little over 47,000 miles. I have had the car for only about 8 months and it is safe to say that it has had one too many issues after a few months.

About a week ago, I got an error message saying maximum engine speed 4,000 rpm. It went away and stayed out for a couple of days but then it came back again 2 days ago. Along with the warning message the check engine light also came on. I did notice that for the last few days the car seem to be burning more gas and the car isn't pushing like it usually did. Also, the rpm stay between 1000 and 2500 for the most part and car tend to drive on higher gear (D6-D8). I don't hear any weird noises and the morning cold start seem ok...the way it has been throughout winter.

I scheduled an appointment at my local Bentley dealership yesterday and it came back with the following 3 codes:

P002100: "A Camshaft position (Bank2) timing over-advanced or system performance
P052C00: cold start camshaf position (Bank2) timing over-advanced
U101700: ABS control module check dtc memory

As per the workshop, the first 2 code are active/statis fault codes...not sure what that means.

The mechanic reset the codes and they stayed out only for a while. When I went back to pick the car up, the maximum engine speed 4,000 rpm error code came back and then the today the check engine light came back as well.

As per the mechanic, timing correlation concern and the camshaft adjusters and possibly camshaft will need to be replaced. To access, they will need to remove the engine/transmission assembly and remove engine to access timing chain covers. Then they will inspect the date codes of the adjusters. Adjusters, control valves, and possible camshafts will need to be replaced.

I don't know if that is actually necessary to get rid of the code. I haven't gotten a full quote yet but last when I spoke with the service advisor, he said I could be looking at $30,000+ for this repair!!!!!!! Does that make sense? Just the sound of it gave me a mini heart attack!

If anyone knows of a cheaper, more reasonable solution, I would greatly appreciate it since I do not have 30k to fix the car!!!

Does the engine need to be completely taken out to replace https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/part/111415/bentley/6d109257b/control-valve-camshaft-adjuster-uni.html]control valve, camshaft adjuster unit and https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/part/111411/bentley/7c906455c/solenoid-valve-camshaft-adjuster-un.html]solenoid valve, camshaft adjuster unit? I don't even know if that is what's needed. I am just trying to read about the error code online and there's no info with regards to Bentley Flying Spur running into these issues.

At this point I am getting into anxiety mode and feel clueless. Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

 

Hello @feeldaxtc ,
Welcome to 6speedonline !

As to your issues, please confirm which engine, W12, or V8.
Adding your location to your profile would be helpful for anyone local to your location that may help hands on.

Before even contemplating such a ridiculous "$30,000 repair", I would start with the simple items first, which brings to mind, the oil change history on this vehicle, as 47,000 miles is nothing for the W12 engine, and as by the codes, it appears that your Bank 2 intake cam phaser is stuck in the advanced position, so, an oil change, and possibly an oil additive/flush, and change again may be in order, also depending on your location and temperature, oil specs might play into it, somewhat, but lack of oil changes and or sitting for long periods could.

Next would be to change out the crankshaft position sensor located at the 6 O'clock position on the transmission bell housing, as it is the easiest to reach, then to pull the offending cam position sensor to check for buildup on the sensor itself, also to check the pins/sockets for corrosion, along with wiring at said sensor plug, the cam sensors are tight to get to, but it can be done with the engine in the vehicle, as are the 4 VVT solenoids, I would check the wiring for the offending VVT solenoid, then a possible removal and inspection and cleaning of said VVT, you would need to unplug both the intake and exhaust VVT'S at the back of the head before removing the valve cover, the VVT'S are the two circular items with wires coming out of the top of each valve cover, each VVT solenoids is held in with 2 tiny torx screws, be extremely careful removing and holding on to the screws, protect the area in case of droppage.

Now, for a glimmer of hope, I have not had this issue with my GT that I installed a 2011 Supersports engine/transmission package into, but, I have had the same issue in the past with my 05 A8l W12 (non turbo), as did our friend here at 6speedonline, @British , whom has sadly passed away not long ago, prior to his passing we had phone conversations about this issue along with others, the dealership or service shop told him that they had to reset the timing ect, IIRC, they dropped the engine out of the vehicle, claimed that they reset cam and timing, but eventhough I pressed British to get detailed answers from the tech, nothing ever came back as a true definitive answer as to if the timing was ever off, as I have disassembled a few of these W12's, I told British that I would not for one second believe that only one cam could be 1 tooth off, but he had this work done prior to our conversation on the matter, and when his check engine light came back on right after service, he called me, and we discussed how my A8L W12 would run beautifully with full power, then all of the sudden, wouldn't go past 4000 rpm, I kept thinking it was electrical, as every time it happened, I would turn off the ignition, and restart the engine, then she would fly right up to 6250 rpm, now mind you, my A8L had 170k + miles at the time, and I was pushing the oil change interval, but the oil wasn't my thinking at the time, as killing the ignition and restart cleared the issue, I even had were I was pulling out into traffic and it stumbled and stayed at 4k, I let off the gas and hit it again, if I stayed in it now with the check engine light flashing at 4k rpm (I know, bad move), all of the sudden it was like someone flipped a switch, the power came full on, I kept checking electrical items, well, I added a flush, drove it hard for 40 miles or so and changed the oil / filter, and all was good, now at over 200K, the issue has not returned, neither did it return for British after an oil change, but I no longer know the status of his GT.

Sorry for the long reply.

Johnny

 

@Johnny Hotspur GT First of all, I greatly appreciate you take out time to reply in such detail.

To answer your questions, it is a V8 and I am located in central jersey, Somerset, NJ to be precise. And, I have been going to Bentley of Edison for repairs and diagnosis. I got the car at around 36,000 miles and I got the 40,000 miles service done at the dealership.

The service advisor just called me back and said that the worst case scenario total to replace all the shafts will be $34,500!!! and the best case scenario will be about $25,000!!! I asked him that I have some troubleshooting options I was given (your above post). And, I asked him if I could email him all this detail to show it to the mechanic but he said that he won't take a look at it and whatever options they are giving is the only thing they will do and that if I want to try something else, I should take the care to some other shop!

I most certainly don't have $25-35k to put in a car. This has been such a nightmare!

Thank you for the troubleshoots.

In your explanation, you mentioned that you added a flush, drove your Audi hard for 40 miles or so and changed the oil/filter. Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a flush and how do you add it? The problem is, I am not a car tech person so there's no way I can even try to do those troubleshoots myself. I have seen a few posts from people in New Jersey. If you know of people who might be able to help me or know of any shops in New Jersey who work on these cars, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Hey there, I read your post and feel your pain. The FIRST thing that you have to do, is do exactly what the dealer told you...GO TO ANOTHER SHOP.

In general, owning a car like this will require you to have a GOOD Independent mechanic on hand. The kind that will actually welcome troubleshooting advice that you'll get from a forum, or one that is interested in actually NOT charging you $$$$ to bring no result.

I live in a amll town in Maui, and we have a couple Independents hat can take care of my Maserati, RR and Bentley. I'm sure in NJ/NY you can definitely find a couple too.

 

Well you may be in luck. Johnny Hotspur (who answered above and arguably knows more about our cars than any dealer) lives just 100 miles north of you in Montgomery NJ.

 

@BruceR thanks! I am only about 20 minutes away from Montgomery NJ.

 

took the car to another shop here in new jersey. They did the oil change but the code came back. This had gotten me worried that the issue might be bigger

 

Hello ​​​​​​@feeldaxtc ,
Being that you have the V8, and I have not personally worked on the Bentley TT 4.0 V8, I will refer you to a friend that has, we can not discuss business here in the forum, so I will PM you Jason's information, that is if you are willing to ship the vehicle to NC, I can say this, the amount will be nowhere near the "$34,500" the dealership is quoting for just the cam shafts, that is absolutely absurd, as the complete V8 TT 4.0 engine, top to bottom, front to back, ready for plug and play installation itself sells for $29,714.82, as quoted by Bentley Manhattan on December 14th 2023, I confirmed this price with BOE on that same day, I did this research for another member here.

Johnny

 

Appreciate you replying. Before trying to ship the car to NC, i would like to ask if you know of shops within jersey that are reliable and can work on our cars?


also, the $29k you mentioned, is that just the engine or does that include the cost to remove the current engine and install the new one?

 

Sorry, but no, I really do not know of anyone local, especially for a 2015 V8.

The $29K is just for the engine, but my point was that they are quoting you $34,500 just for cam shafts (I assume camshafts, as you state "shafts") job, and again as you haven't posted any actual qoute listing exactly which parts they are supplying/replacing, so, I am assuming the following, 4 camshafts at $1270 each, 2 inlet camshaft VVT phasers at $774 each, 2 exhaust camshaft VVT phasers at $853 each, 4 timing chains at $200 +/- each, 4 timing chain tensioners at $930, 2 timing chain guides/tracks at $55, 2 timing chain linings at $11, plus $250 for miscellaneous bolts, gaskets, and sealant, you are at $10,380 dollars in parts, that is if infact they are going that deep with all chains, guides, tensioners, phasers, and all four camshafts, labor is not woth anywhere near $20,000 to $24,000 for the job, not even close, and more to the point, after doing above mentioned work, you still have a block assembly and heads/valves, seals with close to 50k on it, and brings a question, why would the dealership want to replace all four camshafts, if you only have one intake camshaft stuck in the advanced position, something is not adding up.. why not replace the one phaser, unless they know something we don't, is there an issue at the mating area of the phasers to the camshafts.

If you have a detailed qoute, please post it, if not, I would request (demand) a very detailed quote from the dealership, especially at their quoted price.

Maybe this weekend or next week depending on our schedules, I could meet you and have a listen and test drive, and I would scan it with my Ross-Tech VCDS and the ODIS VAS 5054.

Johnny

 

yes, the service advisor said $9800 just to drop the engine and again another $9800 to put it back. So that is close to 20k and another 5k i am assuming is labor for switching the parts. He didn’t send me detailed quote. He gave me estimate total over the phone.

My car is currently at a shop. After the oil change and some other maintenance services they said they will run some more test and i al not sure when they will give the car back. If i get it back in a day or 2, i can let you know and we can then maybe meet. I will keep you posted.

thank you for your detailed explanation and guidance.

 

Hello ​​​​​​@feeldaxtc ,
I just went back and re-read your first post in this matter, just for clarification, the links you posted for Scuderia, those parts are for the W12 as shown in the diagram, not the V8, next what caught my attention, was the comment made by BOE that "they will inspect for the date codes of the adjusters", why, is there an issue with certain dates of manufacturing, I will look into that.

But, onto the most important part, the quote/comment made by the service advisor at BOE, is such that, either he or she has their head where the sun doesn't shine, or they are just outright trying to rip you off, in all of my years I have never quoted nor received a qoute that specifies a price for dropping the engine assembly and then installing the same engine assembly in the course of a single job, I could understand that if someone just wanted a price to pull an engine and that's it, or, someone brings in a vehicle with no engine in place, and wants a quote for installing an engine assembly, so the "$9800.00 out + $9800.00 in" which is $19,600 + $1300 tax for a total of $20,900 is utterly ridiculous for just the removal and installation of said engine assembly.

My friend will charge $3500 labor for the removal and installation of the engine transmission package, he will charge between $3000 and $4000 labor for the engine diagnostic and repair, then, depending on the diagnostics he will inform you of exactly which parts are needed, he will not throw your money away by installing unnecessary parts, so you would have tops, $7500 in labor based on what you and BOE have described, plus the costs of the required replacement parts, and I highly doubt that you would need all of the parts I had previously listed, could be just 1 phaser, and or adjuster.

Johnny

 

i just spoke to the current private shop. They changed the sensor, drove the car and the light came back on.

i did not understand the date part either. They said they want to read some serial number or other stuff which was confusing. BoE said it takes 50+ hours to remove and then 50+ to put it back. Is that truec

i was looking at a recent receipt from them. They charged me $1050 just for labor for rear brakes/rotors. Is that standard or a rip off?

Your friend you are mentioning, is that the one in NC?

 

Hello ​​​​​​@feeldaxtc ,
As far as 50+ hours out, and 50+ hours back in, that is 100% BS, you can see my rebuild thread, I had the the complete engine/transmission package out in around 12 hours or so, on my back, with no lift, power tools, or prior knowledge of the Bentley GT, and I had removed both fenders, headlights, complete exhaust, and then reinstalled the subframe/suspension in this time frame, as to be able to move the vehicle around on all four tires.

I had the engine/transmission/suspension package back in this vehicle in just under 6 hours, that included axles, driveshaft, braces, exhaust, I spent another 6-7 hours installing the radiator package, headlights, fenders, bumper, fluids, etc.

You can see that @turbo_secret had the the engine/transmission package out in the range of 10 hours, with a four post lift, and a fork lift, video below.

A $1050 labor for just the rear brake work is a rip-off.

Yes, my friend in NC.

Johnny

 

Sounds about right. My mechanic has quoted me seven hours either way on a lift, engine in or out, and he's only semi-familiar with Bentleys. More so with W12/V8 TTSI Audis so he's been there and knows what he's talking about.

Somehow Bentleys are a magnet to fraudulent mechanics who think their owners are uninformed and willing to shell out any amount for straightforward repairs. Five figures for pulling and installing an engine? Ridiculous.