Whats the difference between the OEM part and the TRW part? Have you installed and tested both? Thanks.

 

TRW is an OEM supplier to Porsche. There is no dimensional or quality difference between the Porsche supplied unit and the TRW unit.

 

Looks like about $100.

 

Exactly haha...I just wanted to ensure TRW is who supplies Porsche

It reduces pedal travel, but does it improve the firmness?

 

Testing back to back is difficult to do without having two cars: One with the GT3 master cylinder, and one with a standard master cylinder.

I have not done this, but I have driven a GT3 back to back with a Boxster, and I will tell you that, to my foot, the GT3 felt much firmer.

 

I'm tempted to put this in the Cayman R, but am at a loss to understand why Porsche wouldn't have put this in themselves in the first place, given the relatively low cost compared to the claimed benefit.

 

It only reduces pedal travel. It does NOT improve firmness. I did this to my PCCB equipped spyder and confirmed the same results on fellow rennlisters PCCB Cayman R and Standard brake Cayman S. The decrease in pedal travel helped with my ability to heel/toe, but the mushy soft endpoint remains and there is no current cure to this problem.

You guys are advertising something that you haven't tested out for yourself? If you can't tell the difference after the swap and need to have 2 cars next to each other to tell the difference, the benefits are questionable. I'd highly suggest doing so before touting it's benefits. However, I HAVE done this modification. Let's get one thing straight here: The GT3 master cylinder will NOT make your 987 feel like it has a GT3 brake pedal. Not even close. It will make it BETTER, of that I can attest to. I would suggest doing this modification if you are having a hard time heel/toeing and don't like the brake pedal going all the way to the floor when you are braking hard at the track. BUT, GT3 brake pedal it will not get you. GT3 brake pedals have a rock solid endpoint.

Tell me about it. I have PCCBs on my spyder and I couldn't believe the pedal felt like crap next to my Mitsubishi Evo X. DO NOT mistake braking capability with feel. The brakes work WELL, but they feel like crap. Porsche did this because they are making their 'sports cars' more palatable to their typical buyers who have no idea what heel/toe is and will never take their car to the track. What I know from PERSONAL experience so far:
1) All 987.2 brake pedals are mushy
2) 986 brake pedals feel great
3) 997.2 GT3 brake pedal feels great
4) 997.1 C2, 997.2 Turbo S braked pedals are mushy
Come to your own conclusions from there.

 

The master cylinder solves only part of the problem. The secret to the remaining issue with the brake pedal probably lies within the brake booster. I've looked into this, and curiously the brake booster of the 986 is the same part number that is used in the 987 even though the brake pedal on the 986 has a solid endpoint. A forum member thinks it has something to do with the vacuum assist available in the 987 that is not available in the 986. If someone can crack the remaining 'secret', they will be onto something big.

 

Very interesting and timely discussion for me. I had recently had tech inspections and brake fluid flushes done for the Cayman R and 997.2 C2S.

The brake pedal in the 997 feels great, as before. Firm, easy to modulate precisely, and good amount of travel for heel/toe.

The brake pedal in the Cayman previously felt somewhat mushy, but it had plenty of braking force (enough to readily engage ABS) and was OK for heel/toe, though a bit more travel than I prefer. After the flush, it feels even mushier and the travel is so much that my heel/toe is screwed up. The suspicion is air in the system, which will be addressed today, hopefully getting the pedal feel and travel at least back to where it was before the flush.

One or both cars will be tracked this weekend, so we'll see how that goes.

 

For clarification sake, I did not intend to intimate that I had driven the car with the swap over any reduced time frame. I last drove a 987 without the swap over a year ago, and tried a car with the swap much more recently.

 

My Dad has a 7.2 GT3, and it has one of the best pedals I have ever felt...as did his 6 GT3. Given those cars had much bigger calipers, rotors and pad surface area, I dont see any way that simply adding the GT3 MC would make the 987 brakes feel like the GT3. However, it would be nice to shorten the pedal travel....the next step is figuring out what combination or setup will give that rock hard pedal at the end of travel.

 

Just got the CR back. Now feels the way it did before the brake flush: reasonable pedal travel and ample braking force, but still mushy, especially compared to my 997.2.

I haven't ruled out the idea of getting the GT3 MC, but I'm still skeptical about how much it will improve the brake feel.

 

Joe, you previously said that the install was "easy" and that the resulting braking feel was "much better". Stating "Before, they were a mushy mess that had no business being in a sports car...That is no longer the case." (Obviously I'm paraphrasing. Joe's entire assessment can be found here.)

Has extended use dampened your opinion of the system? It seems like you used to be quite excited by the swap. If your long term experience has been negative, I would certainly like to know about it.

Be mindful that I am, in no way, attempting to call you out, or be negative. I am genuinely concerned about the longevity of the benefits of this system. If your opinion has degraded over time, I would love to hear why.

 

I'm happy to address the issue for you. I still think that the modification is a good one and I have been happy with the results. I was unable to properly heel/toe prior to this modification because my foot would drop so low to the ground it was difficult to grab the throttle. Now that the travel length has been shortened, I can heel/toe with the best of them. With that being said, however, the pedal is still not perfect. There is no solid endpoint. It does not significantly affect the way I drive the car, or the performance of the car. However, it doesn't feel like a proper sports car brake pedal should. The difference between a GT3 brake pedal and a 987 with a GT3 master cylinder is still significant, which is what I wanted to make clear. I don't want people to think that putting in a GT3 master cylinder will make their brake pedal feel like a GT3's pedal. It won't. If you have a problem with the pedal travel on the stock MC, than a GT3 MC would be a good way to fix it.

If you reference the thread I made over at rennlist, I come to the same conclusion.

Am I happy I did the modification? absolutely.
Is it perfect? absolutely not.

My initial excitement on the improvement has been overtaken by my frustration that there is not yet a 'perfect' solution to a problem that really should not be an issue to begin with if Porsche still catered to enthusiasts.

If you guys at ECS tuning can find a solution to make the brake pedal just like a GT3 or even 986, then you've got my business and a lot of others coming your way.