Offering informed input on Bose system.
#1
12-23-2009, 07:27 PM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 17 
Offering informed input on Bose system.
Offering informed input on Bose system. Hello. I have read with interest some earlier posts with opinions on the optional Bose system offered on most Porsche models. As this is my first post on this forum as a new owner of a 08 Cayenne, I don't want to come across as arrogant or uniformed in my following comments about the Bose system. So I will start out by pointing out that my background is 35 years of high end audio as well as playing guitar. My understanding of what realistic sound reproduction is all about, is, and should be expected to be very high compared to the man on the street.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
Last edited by GT3 Chuck; 12-23-2009 at 07:51 PM. Reason: registered users may not promote businesses
#2
12-24-2009, 01:21 AM
Agreed, Porsche should be the consumer voice and more discerning than the general populace cars.
At the same time, Bose needs a generous dose of innovation and not in marketing.
If I wanted mediocracy then I'd buy such a car
At the same time, Bose needs a generous dose of innovation and not in marketing.
If I wanted mediocracy then I'd buy such a car
#3
12-24-2009, 05:35 AM
One of the reasons I wanted the Cayenne without the Bose. The standard stereo does not have the booming thump that represents most of the bass response of the Bose. The standard system though not as powerful is better balanced without the thump and hiss. I have rented the Corvette with the Bose and hated it. I could not listen to talk radio at all and the music seemed like I was in a '90's disco (not consistent with Vivaldi or Mozart). One of the best ways to send Porsche the message is not to pay for the Bose as part of the final deal. Negotiate the Bose out as a negative.
#4
12-24-2009, 11:41 AM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 17
I wondered whether the stock system would in fact sound more natural but wasn't able to find a car with out the Bose to compare. Your response does not shock me at all. I love satellite radio, does this requires ordering the Bose system or Navigation (something I don't care about) to get?
#5
12-24-2009, 12:04 PM
I have the base system with Nav, off road pkg and Ipod/bluetooth. No sat radio though. Very happy.
#6
12-25-2009, 03:45 PM
So, I did the bass update to my Bose equipped 04 CTT... this was using an Image Dynamics 10" sub in a sealed box with a 500 watt Alpine mono channel amplifier. Seemed to help the low end a lot! Have not done any real time frequency analysis with it but wondering if there are ways to electronically equalize the system? Since I was stuck with Bose and changing out all of the components in the system is cost prohibitive just wondering what could be recommended to improve what we have...
#7
12-26-2009, 03:00 PM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 17
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not sell car stereo's, so I don't know whether aftermarket EQ is available or not. Maybe another forum member can offer some input here. I'm sure those sealed box woofers helped the bottom end out a lot. Good luck.
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#8
12-27-2009, 12:08 AM
Offering informed input on Bose system. Hello. I have read with interest some earlier posts with opinions on the optional Bose system offered on most Porsche models. As this is my first post on this forum as a new owner of a 08 Cayenne, I don't want to come across as arrogant or uniformed in my following comments about the Bose system. So I will start out by pointing out that my background is 35 years of high end audio as well as playing guitar. My understanding of what realistic sound reproduction is all about, is, and should be expected to be very high compared to the man on the street.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
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