2010 Turbo/Turbo S vs 2011 Cayenne Turbo, 2010/2011 X5M
#31
07-16-2010, 03:06 PM
awww you don't have to run since we don't agree with you. I use my CTT off road a bunch, i do a lot of dirt biking which is why i chose it vs the X5m. BMW service also played a part in my decision to never drive another BMW. Also BMWs are a pain to mod, i remember putting K&N typhoon intake system on my M6 and it threw codes and went into limp mode 
. My point on the M6 (most problematic car i ever owned BTW) is that high end BMW's drop like a rock as does most mass produced high end cars/suv's.
Also since we are doing WTF's, why would BMW make the X6m and X5m..... the X6m is pointless.
I know there is talk about the X5m being cheaper than the Cayenne Turbo S but that's the same point the Jeep SRT8 guys make against the X5m. The Cayenne is the best all round suv made and now with the 2011 its also the fastest.
Lets see a X5M do this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbetkMgQJC8
. My point on the M6 (most problematic car i ever owned BTW) is that high end BMW's drop like a rock as does most mass produced high end cars/suv's.Also since we are doing WTF's, why would BMW make the X6m and X5m..... the X6m is pointless.
I know there is talk about the X5m being cheaper than the Cayenne Turbo S but that's the same point the Jeep SRT8 guys make against the X5m. The Cayenne is the best all round suv made and now with the 2011 its also the fastest.
Lets see a X5M do this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbetkMgQJC8
Last edited by Matrix; 07-16-2010 at 03:11 PM.
#32
07-16-2010, 06:41 PM
I haven't seen one direct head to head on the X5M and 2011 Cayenne Turbo by a reputable source. When I do, then I will believe whether the new Cayenne is actually faster.
Love my X5M. Yes, doesn't do offroad. Don't need it to.
Yes, will agree that the interior of the Cayenne is sublime. No reason my X5M should not have a full alcantara headliner like my M5 did. However, to me, and with everyday real world driving (i.e. no track time, which is a place the Cayenne can outshine with it different suspension/drivetrain settings) the X5M is every bit the car for $50k less equally equipped.
So, having said that, I am still thinking about a 2012 when my X5M lease is up.
Love my X5M. Yes, doesn't do offroad. Don't need it to.
Yes, will agree that the interior of the Cayenne is sublime. No reason my X5M should not have a full alcantara headliner like my M5 did. However, to me, and with everyday real world driving (i.e. no track time, which is a place the Cayenne can outshine with it different suspension/drivetrain settings) the X5M is every bit the car for $50k less equally equipped.
So, having said that, I am still thinking about a 2012 when my X5M lease is up.
#33
07-23-2010, 07:45 AM
Not a fan boy at all, just helping bring some objectivity to the conversation.
I think you missed my point about depreciation. You're comparing an M6 and we're discussing SUV's. Your M6 must have gone in the river if you dropped $55K in one year.
The SUV's tested are a point in time, it's not a '6 year old car', it was their best effort - and still is as the 2011's aren't on the street.
The CTTS isn't a serious off-roader.. please. If Porsche thought anyone was using them for off-roading, they wouldn't have dumped most of the pertinent equipment for 2011.
I'm out.. to many people on this thread who can't live with the truth.
Best of luck to the O.P.
I think you missed my point about depreciation. You're comparing an M6 and we're discussing SUV's. Your M6 must have gone in the river if you dropped $55K in one year.
The SUV's tested are a point in time, it's not a '6 year old car', it was their best effort - and still is as the 2011's aren't on the street.
The CTTS isn't a serious off-roader.. please. If Porsche thought anyone was using them for off-roading, they wouldn't have dumped most of the pertinent equipment for 2011.
I'm out.. to many people on this thread who can't live with the truth.
Best of luck to the O.P.
I think the point is, the x5m is bmws latest and greatest effort that has 5 or 6 years of developement time over the Cayenne with all new tech, etc. And while the CTTS may be Porsche's best, it is still Porsche's best from 6 years ago and it still matches or beats the x5m in all performance categories.
Last edited by PorscheC4; 07-23-2010 at 07:57 AM.
#34
07-23-2010, 08:00 AM
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True we all like different things.
I think the point is, the x5m is bmws latest and greatest effort that has 5 or 6 years of developement time over the Cayenne. And while the CTTS may be Porsche's best, it is still Porsche's best from 6 years ago and it still matches or beats the x5m in all performance categories.
I think the point is, the x5m is bmws latest and greatest effort that has 5 or 6 years of developement time over the Cayenne. And while the CTTS may be Porsche's best, it is still Porsche's best from 6 years ago and it still matches or beats the x5m in all performance categories.
I'm not hating on the (current) Turbo S, just stating my opinion. I could have purchased either and decided the X was a better vehicle - cost notwithstanding (aka, even if they were the same price). The Car/Driver magazine test showed a performance advantage to the X5M over the Turbo S (550hp).
We'll see where the new Cayenne Turbo comes in once it's tested, but I wouldn't expect miracles as the weight savings of the new model is offset by the loss (vs the previous Turbo S) of 50bhp.
Now, a lighter Turbo S with 550bhp would certainly have a performance advantage over any other current offering.. that said - and IMO - it would not be worth $145K.
It should be an interesting 2011/2012 as Mercedes will certainly unleash something tasty to stay in the game and BMW is rumored to be dialing up the boost on the 4.4 TT. The leap-frogging will certainly continue and I look forward to owning an SUV at some point soon with over 600bhp
Last edited by HIRISC; 07-23-2010 at 08:07 AM.
#35
07-26-2010, 11:44 AM
More development time for BMW, yes you're correct. However, the Cayenne Turbo S is (just) 4 years old and was 'improved' in 2008 with an additional (edit) 30bhp.. It's not like it came out in 2004 and has remained static.
I'm not hating on the (current) Turbo S, just stating my opinion. I could have purchased either and decided the X was a better vehicle - cost notwithstanding (aka, even if they were the same price). The Car/Driver magazine test showed a performance advantage to the X5M over the Turbo S (550hp).
We'll see where the new Cayenne Turbo comes in once it's tested, but I wouldn't expect miracles as the weight savings of the new model is offset by the loss (vs the previous Turbo S) of 50bhp.
Now, a lighter Turbo S with 550bhp would certainly have a performance advantage over any other current offering.. that said - and IMO - it would not be worth $145K.
It should be an interesting 2011/2012 as Mercedes will certainly unleash something tasty to stay in the game and BMW is rumored to be dialing up the boost on the 4.4 TT. The leap-frogging will certainly continue and I look forward to owning an SUV at some point soon with over 600bhp
I'm not hating on the (current) Turbo S, just stating my opinion. I could have purchased either and decided the X was a better vehicle - cost notwithstanding (aka, even if they were the same price). The Car/Driver magazine test showed a performance advantage to the X5M over the Turbo S (550hp).
We'll see where the new Cayenne Turbo comes in once it's tested, but I wouldn't expect miracles as the weight savings of the new model is offset by the loss (vs the previous Turbo S) of 50bhp.
Now, a lighter Turbo S with 550bhp would certainly have a performance advantage over any other current offering.. that said - and IMO - it would not be worth $145K.
It should be an interesting 2011/2012 as Mercedes will certainly unleash something tasty to stay in the game and BMW is rumored to be dialing up the boost on the 4.4 TT. The leap-frogging will certainly continue and I look forward to owning an SUV at some point soon with over 600bhp
The new CTT is DEF without a doubt an even better handling car and has better aerodynamics to go with its weight loss. The power to weight ratio of the new turbo is the SAME as the previous Turbo S model...and you know with Porsche that even though the crank hp may have remained the same, its going to prove to be much faster. Just look at the huge difference little hp bumps do for Porsche.
The new turbo S will surely crush everything is its path when it comes out.
As for price, you pay to play. The quality is so much better than BMW and IMO the way it drives and feel makes up easily for the price difference.
If BMW could sell the X5M/X6M for the same price Porsche charges for the turbo and turbo S, they would...but the fact is, they cant. They can barely move them as is...and the discounts are good for the buyer on them now. Most people's biggest reason for buying the M is due to the LOWER cost, which is ok, but it hasnt and wont hurt the sales of Porshce who have dominated this market since they got into it. Most of the people who come in to buy a Cayenne at my family's Porsche dealership are ones who used to drive an x5 and wanted more performance or better quality. And there is no lack of demand for the new cayenne turbo and surely wont be for the turbo S.
Last edited by PorscheC4; 07-26-2010 at 11:47 AM.
#36
07-26-2010, 01:24 PM
See I think you are incorrect in the new turbo model. The old turbo S with 550 hp and 53XX lbs, still had a slight performance edge on the x5m; it was faster at higher speeds and had better steering, better grip and handled better.
The new CTT is DEF without a doubt an even better handling car and has better aerodynamics to go with its weight loss. The power to weight ratio of the new turbo is the SAME as the previous Turbo S model...and you know with Porsche that even though the crank hp may have remained the same, its going to prove to be much faster. Just look at the huge difference little hp bumps do for Porsche.
The new turbo S will surely crush everything is its path when it comes out.
As for price, you pay to play. The quality is so much better than BMW and IMO the way it drives and feel makes up easily for the price difference.
If BMW could sell the X5M/X6M for the same price Porsche charges for the turbo and turbo S, they would...but the fact is, they cant. They can barely move them as is...and the discounts are good for the buyer on them now. Most people's biggest reason for buying the M is due to the LOWER cost, which is ok, but it hasnt and wont hurt the sales of Porshce who have dominated this market since they got into it. Most of the people who come in to buy a Cayenne at my family's Porsche dealership are ones who used to drive an x5 and wanted more performance or better quality. And there is no lack of demand for the new cayenne turbo and surely wont be for the turbo S.
The new CTT is DEF without a doubt an even better handling car and has better aerodynamics to go with its weight loss. The power to weight ratio of the new turbo is the SAME as the previous Turbo S model...and you know with Porsche that even though the crank hp may have remained the same, its going to prove to be much faster. Just look at the huge difference little hp bumps do for Porsche.
The new turbo S will surely crush everything is its path when it comes out.
As for price, you pay to play. The quality is so much better than BMW and IMO the way it drives and feel makes up easily for the price difference.
If BMW could sell the X5M/X6M for the same price Porsche charges for the turbo and turbo S, they would...but the fact is, they cant. They can barely move them as is...and the discounts are good for the buyer on them now. Most people's biggest reason for buying the M is due to the LOWER cost, which is ok, but it hasnt and wont hurt the sales of Porshce who have dominated this market since they got into it. Most of the people who come in to buy a Cayenne at my family's Porsche dealership are ones who used to drive an x5 and wanted more performance or better quality. And there is no lack of demand for the new cayenne turbo and surely wont be for the turbo S.
#37
07-27-2010, 12:43 PM
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Rep Power: 205 See I think you are incorrect in the new turbo model. The old turbo S with 550 hp and 53XX lbs, still had a slight performance edge on the x5m; it was faster at higher speeds and had better steering, better grip and handled better.
The new CTT is DEF without a doubt an even better handling car and has better aerodynamics to go with its weight loss. The power to weight ratio of the new turbo is the SAME as the previous Turbo S model...and you know with Porsche that even though the crank hp may have remained the same, its going to prove to be much faster. Just look at the huge difference little hp bumps do for Porsche.
The new turbo S will surely crush everything is its path when it comes out.
As for price, you pay to play. The quality is so much better than BMW and IMO the way it drives and feel makes up easily for the price difference.
If BMW could sell the X5M/X6M for the same price Porsche charges for the turbo and turbo S, they would...but the fact is, they cant. They can barely move them as is...and the discounts are good for the buyer on them now. Most people's biggest reason for buying the M is due to the LOWER cost, which is ok, but it hasnt and wont hurt the sales of Porshce who have dominated this market since they got into it. Most of the people who come in to buy a Cayenne at my family's Porsche dealership are ones who used to drive an x5 and wanted more performance or better quality. And there is no lack of demand for the new cayenne turbo and surely wont be for the turbo S.
The new CTT is DEF without a doubt an even better handling car and has better aerodynamics to go with its weight loss. The power to weight ratio of the new turbo is the SAME as the previous Turbo S model...and you know with Porsche that even though the crank hp may have remained the same, its going to prove to be much faster. Just look at the huge difference little hp bumps do for Porsche.
The new turbo S will surely crush everything is its path when it comes out.
As for price, you pay to play. The quality is so much better than BMW and IMO the way it drives and feel makes up easily for the price difference.
If BMW could sell the X5M/X6M for the same price Porsche charges for the turbo and turbo S, they would...but the fact is, they cant. They can barely move them as is...and the discounts are good for the buyer on them now. Most people's biggest reason for buying the M is due to the LOWER cost, which is ok, but it hasnt and wont hurt the sales of Porshce who have dominated this market since they got into it. Most of the people who come in to buy a Cayenne at my family's Porsche dealership are ones who used to drive an x5 and wanted more performance or better quality. And there is no lack of demand for the new cayenne turbo and surely wont be for the turbo S.
#38
07-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Weight loss has a bigger impact on performance than a peak HP gain.
That 50hp was a peak during some specific RPM range. Weight loss effects the ENTIRE RPM range. Making it faster at EVERY RPM. WHich is especially true on the new 8 speed Cayennes vs the old 6 speed ones.
Just a side note on the conversation of weight vs HP.
So while the new Cayenne may be 50hp down, it may actually put down more power/weight across the entire range.
#39
07-27-2010, 02:10 PM
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Yes, I understand that, but I really don't have any need (or interest) to plot hp/weight RPM curves (or to even identify average HP) to weed out the performance minutia.
Mine was a general statment of lbs/hp to help alleviate the perception that the new/lighter Turbo would be significantly quicker/faster than the outgoing, more powerful Turbo S. I think most of the Human race uses peak HP/weight for non-technical conversations.
My guess is (again, not doing the math) that the new Turbo will not be significantly quicker or faster than the outgoing Turbo S, unless there is also a beneficial change to the gearing of the transmission (as you implied) and/or final drive.
Mine was a general statment of lbs/hp to help alleviate the perception that the new/lighter Turbo would be significantly quicker/faster than the outgoing, more powerful Turbo S. I think most of the Human race uses peak HP/weight for non-technical conversations.
My guess is (again, not doing the math) that the new Turbo will not be significantly quicker or faster than the outgoing Turbo S, unless there is also a beneficial change to the gearing of the transmission (as you implied) and/or final drive.
#40
06-11-2011, 03:25 AM
cayenne turbo vs bmw x5m
While i only have experience with the new x5 twin turbo and extensive experience with the cayenne turbo( 3 of them so far since 06 with the latest being 2011) and experience with the cayenne turbos(06 model), i can say the following. The bmw is more nimble, very quick and responsive and seems to be sure footed. The x5m i am sure is a beast for speed based on the weight and horspower. bmw has always made a great driving machine at all speeds. The newer porsche cayenne turbo 2011 is a dream to drive in comfort mode. still pretty darn responsive and fast, however when you put it in sport mode the system drops out the top gear(8th) all together, reprograms the air fuel mixtures and allows the turbo gates to open up a little more. The result is awesome on the low and mid ranges. upper range is better in comfort mode. By upper range i mean above 100mph. Overall the cayenne turbo is an experience to drive . It is pricey, resale value really has alot to be desired. doesnt hold its value like i thought it would. Pretty disappointed. Pulling power, amazing. torugue curve is awesome below 4000 rpms. Im sure bmws are pretty darn good too., Nothing is quite like the 911 turbo(which i also owned). Next car, panamera turbo. Just like that speed and tourge. Cayenne is more top heavy(or you get that feeling anyway) than the x5 or x5m. They should lower the profile by about 4 inches. wouldnt hurt a thing.
#41
06-11-2011, 10:40 AM
As if most don't know but I went with a $150k+ 2011 CTT over the x5M 2011. Great little car that M just not up to the specs in any comparison to the CTT and I test drove them back to back quite extensively.
#43
06-11-2011, 12:20 PM
With that there is a car for everyone and those that own M's have a great car in their possession. Maybe if I need a 4th car I'll get an X M. 
I do like the styling of the M just not as ****pit-ish as the Cayenne 2011.
Vs the older cayenne it was a very close race, the new Cayenne does spank it though.
I do like the styling of the M just not as ****pit-ish as the Cayenne 2011.
Vs the older cayenne it was a very close race, the new Cayenne does spank it though.
#44
06-11-2011, 01:03 PM
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#45
06-11-2011, 01:15 PM
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I am feeling generous today,so I will admit that the X5M might feel like first class
However when I get behind the wheel of my CT,it always feels like I am seated in the COHCKPIT
However when I get behind the wheel of my CT,it always feels like I am seated in the COHCKPIT