Okay, I admit - I've never owned a diesel. I have a 2012 Cayenne S and love it. I'm thinking up upgrading to a 2014 Turbo S. However, I thought I should give a thought or two to diesel.

Why should I consider a diesel?
Assumptions:
I am not cost driven, so don't care about various economies or costs that might be part of a diesel choice.
I don't tow anything.
I do a lot of highway and mountain driving and often drive fast.
I won't keep it for more than three years.

Diesel lovers - why should I consider a diesel? I am open minded and ready to be educated.

 

First of all, there is no cost savings for the diesel. I'm tracking the hell out of mine and compared to a V6 (with tip) it will take 90k more miles for me to break even on the 3k premium. And that is before you add in diesel specific maintenance (Adblue and increased oil change interval). And I live in an area where my diesel is about the same price and sometimes cheaper than premium.

Now with that said, there are still some reasons to consider one. On the ecological side, diesel takes less energy to produce so from the reduced waste its better for the environment. With the Adblue system, its exhaust is cleaner too. Even though it isn't saving a significant amount in the long run, its still nice to be going to the gas station less frequently. Towing is of course the main selling point of a diesel, but you aren't interested in that. Related to that, however, is the massive amount of torque you have at the low end (the CTT has more, but it comes in later) which makes it fast off the line and passing at highway speed almost effortless (especially in sport mode). That torque belies its low HP, but only for people that don't understand that its torque that gets you moving. The high low end torque also masks the turbo lag to the point its not noticeable for most people.

I love my CD and I recommend it (especially compared to a S), but based on what you've told us I think you'd be happier with a GTS, CTT,or CTTS. Test drive one and see what you think though.

 

I don't get it, if you can afford a Turbo S, why get a diesel? you can almost get 3 diesels for ONE TURBO S.

 

correct. Hence the question. Thought I might be missing something. So you are saying its all about price?

 

Yes, it's definitely all about the price. If I could afford a Turbo, I could also afford the fuel it consumes. But I can't, so - since 1985 - my daily drivers have been diesels. Nice diesels though, all German. The eldest still looked new when I traded it in with 265,000 miles on the clock. Still all original. Definitely can't say that of the four pickup trucks I owned during the same period though; all high maintenance gasoline hogs.

Granted, "clean diesel" vehicles now possess a degree of sophistication that their predecessors did not. So I won't project this into the future. But I do have that 28 year history as a reference, and definitely spent more on fuel and maintenance on those gasoline vehicles than I did on the diesels. The three diesels I traded in over the years were 100% original when I signed over the titles. Not so the pickups, I don't think there was a numbers-matching vehicle in the bunch.

Performance? Well that's something I traded for economy. But that said, I suggest you check out the Porsche Cayenne Diesel S. Here's a recent quote from Car & Driver: "The Cayenne S diesel earns the “S” by way of a twin-turbocharged 4.2-liter diesel V-8 engine that pumps out a prodigious 382 hp and 627 lb-ft of torque. By comparison, the non-S Cayenne diesel’s 3.0-liter V-6 spits out a relatively puny 240 hp and 406 lb-ft of twist. Interestingly, the S diesel gets Porsche’s engine stop-start system standard; here in the U.S., the fuel-saving feature isn’t available on the pedestrian Cayenne diesel. Porsche estimates that it will take the S diesel 5.7 seconds to reach 62 mph, which we think is on the conservative side."

And by virtue of the auto stop/start feature, the Cayenne V8 diesel is actually rated by the EPA to return the same fuel economy as the Cayenne V6 diesel. Yes, the V8 diesel costs more than the V6 diesel. But when compared to the $146k (and 20 mpg) Turbo S, it's barely 1.3 seconds slower to 60 - for less than half the price.

//greg/

 

Solid advice and thinking. I'm not a "price is no object" guy - and the Turbo S price tag seems really high. But, being raised in Detroit and living most of my life in California I do subscribe to the "there is no such thing as too much horsepower" school.

 

I understand, you're a horsepower guy. I'm a torque guy. There's real truth to the Carroll Shelby axiom; "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". The reason the 382 hp Diesel S is only 1.3 seconds slower than the 550 hp Turbo S - is torque: 667 ft-lbs for the Diesel S, 553 ft-lbs for the Turbo S

//greg//

 

not so much a horsepower guy as a performance guy. Acceleration and handling are priorities (along with good sound system, which the Burmester system provides big time).

Here is how it looks to me in 0-60 times:
Diesel: 7.2
Diesel S: 5.4
Hybrid: 6.1
S: 5.6
Turbo: 4.4
Turbo S: 4.3

20-25% slower is significant in my priorities.

But my question about why diesels was because there are a ton of diesel enthusiasts on this forum with well thought out comments and I wanted to know what the appeal was and make sure I wasn't overlooking any advantages. I'm glad there is a good range of models and packages to fit most of us.

 

Well for the cost of a TTS you could pick up a light V6 or Diesel and pick up a decent 996 or 997 (996TT and maybe GT3 would be options too, don't know about the 997s) for the real performance. Probably still have room to cover the trailer for the P!g to tow the car too and then the Diesel comes into it's own for you

It's all about what you need/want compared to what you are willing to pay (which is different than what you can pay). Luckily, as you pointed out, the Cayenne family has something for just about anyone (there is just no pleasing some people though ).

 

Granted, each to his own. But if I'd be permitted to put a fine point on it (rounded to whole numbers), zero to sixty mph in the Turbo S is
1-(4.3/5.4)=20% faster to 60 mph than in the Diesel S
but is
1-($70k/$146k)=52% more expensive
and
1-(20/29)=31% less fuel efficient

Not trying to convert you, just offering another perspective. It's what I (and probably Porsche) categorize as prestige over practicality.

//greg//

 

First of all, THERE IS NO Diesel V8 in U.S. all U.S. diesel are v6, 240 HP, torque is 406 lbs, 0-60 7.2 seconds!!! you must be reading European models. how long you own your diesel, you don't even know it's a v6??? Turbo S 0-60 in 4.3 seconds.

 

Yep, you nailed the numbers. How things compare; performance, price and such don't have meaning until you weight each item based on one's own priority. When we do that we each get different, but individually correct, answer to the same set of ratings/comparisons. Ain't life great!

 

You already had the answer in your heart, you are already sold on the turbo S, why still thinking about a diesel? because this forum has lots of good comments on the diesel? there are also lots of good comments on the GTS, even the turbo, or the turbo S does not have, e.g. lower suspension, exhaust note, sport design kit, etc. so why don't every one get a gts? why they have to get a turbo or turbo S?

again, there IS NO diesel S in U.S., only v6 diesel.
there is a hybrid S (but that still v6)

 

Your interjections are becoming wearisome sir; rude at best, bordering on insult. Unless you can contribute positively to a gentlemans' discussion of performance vs cost, perhaps you'd be so kind as just to follow along quietly

//greg//

 

I guess we all have different reasons for getting what we get in our cars. I find the V6 diesel the sweet spot for a big suv. I love the torque, economy and making it to the beach and back on one tank of fuel. Coming from a Range Rover, the CD handles like a dream bordering on downright sporty. I owned an '06 Cayenne Turbo and loved the power but found after a while that 500hp just seemed like to much in a big suv. After the initial thrill, I drove it around like an ordinary suv with crummy gas mileage.
I don't need to be thrilled with my family, dog hauler suv but i want it to handle well and offer somewhat spirited driving. My CD does that for me. When I want more excitement, I hop in my '12 991S. And I know this is shameful to admit on a Porsche board but I like the 991 better than my previous 997.1 turbo. I like fast but don't track and there are just no safe, ticket free places to drive the turbo fast where I live. Again, the 991 hits the sweet spot for my sports car enjoyment.
Sorry for the rant. If I had only one car, it would probably be the Cayenne GTS- definitely more exciting to drive than the CD. But for me, The CD is perfect. For now