Snapped Camshaft Adjuster Bolt = Engine & Brake Hydraulics Failure ?
#466
05-10-2017, 09:42 AM
Registered User
To Nedino & others in the situation of PCNA/PAG denial to cover a preventative fix - especially with known WC22 VIN range cars ....
My suggestion is:
Request in writing for them to give you their denial in writing, & for them to include:
1.) That they will agree to fully repair it in the future regardless of age/mileage & for subsequent owner(s) should you sell it; &
2.) that they are aware that the vehicle can lose brake/steering boost &/or fuel & stop in high speed traffic or other dangerous situations (based on documented situations in this topic alone).
Give or Certified mail the letter to your dealer (note which & to whom name/title GM/SM if hand delivered), with cc's to PCNA "Customer Care" mailed by Certified Mail with return receipt (the green card -ask your Postal official if unfamiliar), & Certified with a cover letter to the NHTSA investigator mentioned in previous posts herein, with your request attached - & make sure to list ALL cc's below your signature area too.
And let them know that you will be filing the letter & your complaint with the NHTSA investigator mentioned earlier in this topic who is now investigating the failures. Outside the USA, file with your country's transportation authority responsible for auto safety, such as TUV in Germany, etc.
These letters would go a long way to show PCNA's/PAG's knowledge of the problem & it's serious safety issues, their willful neglect in refusing to repair/replace when notified of a defective part(s), & will build the log at NHTSA (& other countries) on the numbers affected.
This both puts PCNA/PAG on notice, as well as the governmental agencies, builds for any future legal case(s), & gives you a paper trail.
If PCNA/PAG refuses, then you have your letter(s) - & I'd suggest at least one follow request later after +/-4-6 weeks if no reply to the 1st - as documentation for later.
My guess is that PCNA/PAG will either change their mind & do WC22 on any Cay in that range, & they may still do so on any outside of the WC22 VINs - or else & most probably will refuse to supply the letter - which you should also document with date & name(s) of who refused.
However, it will get the attention of the legal beagles at PCNA/PAG & the dealers that they're now on notice if anything tragic happens, let alone for negligence in preventing more extensive & damage to your vehicle. They'll also know that the customers are getting serious about the matter, & the costs for inaction is rising due to their willful neglect.
And get a free Consult with a lawyer familiar with such actions too.
As Don E. said above, for full disclosure - I too am not a lawyer, but have had to deal with lawyers in my almost 50 years in my business activities, & having a paper trail is always recommended by them.
Good Luck to Nedino & All affected!
Cheers!
Tom
///////
My suggestion is:
Request in writing for them to give you their denial in writing, & for them to include:
1.) That they will agree to fully repair it in the future regardless of age/mileage & for subsequent owner(s) should you sell it; &
2.) that they are aware that the vehicle can lose brake/steering boost &/or fuel & stop in high speed traffic or other dangerous situations (based on documented situations in this topic alone).
Give or Certified mail the letter to your dealer (note which & to whom name/title GM/SM if hand delivered), with cc's to PCNA "Customer Care" mailed by Certified Mail with return receipt (the green card -ask your Postal official if unfamiliar), & Certified with a cover letter to the NHTSA investigator mentioned in previous posts herein, with your request attached - & make sure to list ALL cc's below your signature area too.
And let them know that you will be filing the letter & your complaint with the NHTSA investigator mentioned earlier in this topic who is now investigating the failures. Outside the USA, file with your country's transportation authority responsible for auto safety, such as TUV in Germany, etc.
These letters would go a long way to show PCNA's/PAG's knowledge of the problem & it's serious safety issues, their willful neglect in refusing to repair/replace when notified of a defective part(s), & will build the log at NHTSA (& other countries) on the numbers affected.
This both puts PCNA/PAG on notice, as well as the governmental agencies, builds for any future legal case(s), & gives you a paper trail.
If PCNA/PAG refuses, then you have your letter(s) - & I'd suggest at least one follow request later after +/-4-6 weeks if no reply to the 1st - as documentation for later.
My guess is that PCNA/PAG will either change their mind & do WC22 on any Cay in that range, & they may still do so on any outside of the WC22 VINs - or else & most probably will refuse to supply the letter - which you should also document with date & name(s) of who refused.
However, it will get the attention of the legal beagles at PCNA/PAG & the dealers that they're now on notice if anything tragic happens, let alone for negligence in preventing more extensive & damage to your vehicle. They'll also know that the customers are getting serious about the matter, & the costs for inaction is rising due to their willful neglect.
And get a free Consult with a lawyer familiar with such actions too.
As Don E. said above, for full disclosure - I too am not a lawyer, but have had to deal with lawyers in my almost 50 years in my business activities, & having a paper trail is always recommended by them.
Good Luck to Nedino & All affected!
Cheers!
Tom
///////
The reason is "contributory negligence" - in the letter you acknowledge knowing of the unsafe condition that may occur if the Variocam bolts break. Meaning if you then drive it and Dog-Forbid! they do break and someone is injured - Porsche could claim "contributory negligence" in that you knew of the potential for the danger and continued driving the car.
Just a heads up. I am not an attorney, nor do I want to be, but back in a former life I worked for a bunch of them and some stuff sorta rubbed off. I also did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
#467
05-10-2017, 12:10 PM
The only thing I'd suggest a bit differently from Tom - is BEFORE doing the above - talk to an attorney.
The reason is "contributory negligence" - in the letter you acknowledge knowing of the unsafe condition that may occur if the Variocam bolts break. Meaning if you then drive it and Dog-Forbid! they do break and someone is injured - Porsche could claim "contributory negligence" in that you knew of the potential for the danger and continued driving the car.
Just a heads up. I am not an attorney, nor do I want to be, but back in a former life I worked for a bunch of them and some stuff sorta rubbed off. I also did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
The reason is "contributory negligence" - in the letter you acknowledge knowing of the unsafe condition that may occur if the Variocam bolts break. Meaning if you then drive it and Dog-Forbid! they do break and someone is injured - Porsche could claim "contributory negligence" in that you knew of the potential for the danger and continued driving the car.
Just a heads up. I am not an attorney, nor do I want to be, but back in a former life I worked for a bunch of them and some stuff sorta rubbed off. I also did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
That's what I meant by get a free consult, but didn't say clearly enough to talk with the attorney first.
I would also not put in your letter requesting it in writing all the details of the possibility for injury, but simply that you ask that Porsche acknowledge that they are aware of the problems.
Tom
///////
#468
05-30-2017, 07:04 PM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Age: 44
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 0 
Hello,
Just wanted to say very informative thread and also tell you guys my story. Last week I got the itch to get another Cayenne, so I stopped by the local Porsche dealer to see what they had pre-owned. Low and behold they had a sweet 2011 CTT with 72K miles. It was super clean and a great price. I then took it for a test drive, everything was going good and it rode beautifully, until it didn't. About the last 1/4 mile of the test drive the thing went into limp mode, PSM failure, and Check engine Light. We barely made it back to the dealer. When I got there the sales manager gave me the old "a ground got wet in the engine compartment" and immediately lost credibility with me. I told them fix it and I will be back because I really like the car.
I then went home and found this thread and called the service dept about WC-22 and the faulty camshaft adjuster bolts. They told me it doesn't apply to this vehicle and it is a non issue. I expressed my concern and wanted them to verify that the funky safety torx screws were not installed anyway for my own peace of mind.
Fast forward a couple days later when they finally looked at the car, sure enough the bolts sheared on Bank #1. They told me they will replace both banks with the updated parts and they will make sure they find all the pieces to the bolts even if they have to drop the pan.
I called them today to get a status and they told me they are just wrapping up the job now. I asked about a compression test to verify that there aren't any valves and the service manager told me it is impossible to have a bent valve because the timing chain didn't break. I told them that the bolts attach the sprocket to the variable timing unit that is attached to the cam so yes it is possible that a valve can bend. He assured me that is not how it works.
My question is should I still buy this car? I don't have a warm and fuzzy about the whole situation talking to the service manager. I was told that if there is a bent valve they will know right away when they fire it up. should I have anymore concerns?
Thanks,
Just wanted to say very informative thread and also tell you guys my story. Last week I got the itch to get another Cayenne, so I stopped by the local Porsche dealer to see what they had pre-owned. Low and behold they had a sweet 2011 CTT with 72K miles. It was super clean and a great price. I then took it for a test drive, everything was going good and it rode beautifully, until it didn't. About the last 1/4 mile of the test drive the thing went into limp mode, PSM failure, and Check engine Light. We barely made it back to the dealer. When I got there the sales manager gave me the old "a ground got wet in the engine compartment" and immediately lost credibility with me. I told them fix it and I will be back because I really like the car.
I then went home and found this thread and called the service dept about WC-22 and the faulty camshaft adjuster bolts. They told me it doesn't apply to this vehicle and it is a non issue. I expressed my concern and wanted them to verify that the funky safety torx screws were not installed anyway for my own peace of mind.
Fast forward a couple days later when they finally looked at the car, sure enough the bolts sheared on Bank #1. They told me they will replace both banks with the updated parts and they will make sure they find all the pieces to the bolts even if they have to drop the pan.
I called them today to get a status and they told me they are just wrapping up the job now. I asked about a compression test to verify that there aren't any valves and the service manager told me it is impossible to have a bent valve because the timing chain didn't break. I told them that the bolts attach the sprocket to the variable timing unit that is attached to the cam so yes it is possible that a valve can bend. He assured me that is not how it works.
My question is should I still buy this car? I don't have a warm and fuzzy about the whole situation talking to the service manager. I was told that if there is a bent valve they will know right away when they fire it up. should I have anymore concerns?
Thanks,
#469
05-30-2017, 08:07 PM
Hello,
Just wanted to say very informative thread and also tell you guys my story. Last week I got the itch to get another Cayenne, so I stopped by the local Porsche dealer to see what they had pre-owned. Low and behold they had a sweet 2011 CTT with 72K miles. It was super clean and a great price. I then took it for a test drive, everything was going good and it rode beautifully, until it didn't. About the last 1/4 mile of the test drive the thing went into limp mode, PSM failure, and Check engine Light. We barely made it back to the dealer. When I got there the sales manager gave me the old "a ground got wet in the engine compartment" and immediately lost credibility with me. I told them fix it and I will be back because I really like the car.
I then went home and found this thread and called the service dept about WC-22 and the faulty camshaft adjuster bolts. They told me it doesn't apply to this vehicle and it is a non issue. I expressed my concern and wanted them to verify that the funky safety torx screws were not installed anyway for my own peace of mind.
Fast forward a couple days later when they finally looked at the car, sure enough the bolts sheared on Bank #1. They told me they will replace both banks with the updated parts and they will make sure they find all the pieces to the bolts even if they have to drop the pan.
I called them today to get a status and they told me they are just wrapping up the job now. I asked about a compression test to verify that there aren't any valves and the service manager told me it is impossible to have a bent valve because the timing chain didn't break. I told them that the bolts attach the sprocket to the variable timing unit that is attached to the cam so yes it is possible that a valve can bend. He assured me that is not how it works.
My question is should I still buy this car? I don't have a warm and fuzzy about the whole situation talking to the service manager. I was told that if there is a bent valve they will know right away when they fire it up. should I have anymore concerns?
Thanks,
Just wanted to say very informative thread and also tell you guys my story. Last week I got the itch to get another Cayenne, so I stopped by the local Porsche dealer to see what they had pre-owned. Low and behold they had a sweet 2011 CTT with 72K miles. It was super clean and a great price. I then took it for a test drive, everything was going good and it rode beautifully, until it didn't. About the last 1/4 mile of the test drive the thing went into limp mode, PSM failure, and Check engine Light. We barely made it back to the dealer. When I got there the sales manager gave me the old "a ground got wet in the engine compartment" and immediately lost credibility with me. I told them fix it and I will be back because I really like the car.
I then went home and found this thread and called the service dept about WC-22 and the faulty camshaft adjuster bolts. They told me it doesn't apply to this vehicle and it is a non issue. I expressed my concern and wanted them to verify that the funky safety torx screws were not installed anyway for my own peace of mind.
Fast forward a couple days later when they finally looked at the car, sure enough the bolts sheared on Bank #1. They told me they will replace both banks with the updated parts and they will make sure they find all the pieces to the bolts even if they have to drop the pan.
I called them today to get a status and they told me they are just wrapping up the job now. I asked about a compression test to verify that there aren't any valves and the service manager told me it is impossible to have a bent valve because the timing chain didn't break. I told them that the bolts attach the sprocket to the variable timing unit that is attached to the cam so yes it is possible that a valve can bend. He assured me that is not how it works.
My question is should I still buy this car? I don't have a warm and fuzzy about the whole situation talking to the service manager. I was told that if there is a bent valve they will know right away when they fire it up. should I have anymore concerns?
Thanks,
#470
05-30-2017, 08:16 PM
Do not buy the car. There is no guarantee that they retrieved all of the metal bits from the bolts and it is quite possible that there is undetected damage that will only become apparent later.
There are plenty of Cayennes out there without the issue, personally if I had known about this issue prior to my purchase I would have bought a 2012. Be happy you dodged a bullet!
There are plenty of Cayennes out there without the issue, personally if I had known about this issue prior to my purchase I would have bought a 2012. Be happy you dodged a bullet!
Last edited by sjg1138; 05-30-2017 at 08:54 PM.
#471
05-31-2017, 06:41 AM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Age: 44
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 0
Thank you @sjg1138 and @Petza914 for the feedback.
They offered to CPO it for an additional $2000 over the negotiated price and I thought about doing it but it only covers the car for 28,000 more miles before it hits 100k.
If the bolts just sheared and stayed in the upper engine area and don't seem banged up would you still not get it?
I really love the car and for the price I think it is a great deal.
They offered to CPO it for an additional $2000 over the negotiated price and I thought about doing it but it only covers the car for 28,000 more miles before it hits 100k.
If the bolts just sheared and stayed in the upper engine area and don't seem banged up would you still not get it?
I really love the car and for the price I think it is a great deal.
#472
05-31-2017, 02:04 PM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Age: 44
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 0
So the dealer got back to me and they have completed the job of replacing both old Cam Adjusters with the updated parts. However they disclosed that they were unable to find 1 bolt head that was sheared. They think it either fell down the timing cover or it came out in a previous oil change. They said they dropped the pan and checked in there but not sure how much you can drop the pan without taking the cross member out. It seems like a big gamble driving a car like that with a bolt head possibly bouncing around in the engine.
#473
05-31-2017, 03:02 PM
So the dealer got back to me and they have completed the job of replacing both old Cam Adjusters with the updated parts. However they disclosed that they were unable to find 1 bolt head that was sheared. They think it either fell down the timing cover or it came out in a previous oil change. They said they dropped the pan and checked in there but not sure how much you can drop the pan without taking the cross member out. It seems like a big gamble driving a car like that with a bolt head possibly bouncing around in the engine.
FYI #1 - Fair warning to all looking - so far this thread has had several 2011s & 2012s supposedly outside of the WC-22 range - So IMHO - the buyer SOP should be to have any dealer send you pix of both cam adjusters' p/n's L & R to verify that they're not the faulty xxx.21 parts for any MY 2011-14 .... maybe overkill, but it's' a 5-10 minute job to pop the caps & get pix - just to be safe.
FYI #2 - I just went round on an early MY 2012 CayS Silver/Tan with only mid-late-40K miles at McCrary Porsche in Mobile AL - it is within the build dates where some have had the faulty xxx.21 parts &/or failed (in KY a 2012 on 2nd day after purchase IIRC) - so I requested pix of the cam adjuster part nos. & was 1st told that it's outside of the WC-22, then got the runaround on taking the pix after referring the sales guy to this thread & saying that it can cause catastrophic failures to steering/brakes/fuel-engine & that NHTSA is investigating for possible recall & that there have been the faulty parts & failures on 2012s - despite the WC-22 limits.
I was eventually sent some pix with some minor cosmetic issues, some odd scratches/divots on the Nav screen - but NONE of the Cam Adjusters - so I don't know which p/n's it has - & was then told that it just wasn't the car for me, being in SoCal. Maybe he was a conscientious sales guy with me being 2000 miles away - or maybe just the dealer avoiding issues on a known problem.
Either way - buyers beware - & if you end up with that CayS & it fails, then they have been notified of the potential problem, so they may have liability issues.
If it comes up for the bad parts or a failure, then please report back here, so it can get on Don's chart.
It is VIN: WP1AB2A28CLA42850 (possible faulty p/n)
Cheers!
Tom
///////
Last edited by Tom_T; 05-31-2017 at 03:05 PM. Reason: typo
#474
06-01-2017, 09:49 AM
Registered User
Brief reply (crossing the US on 2 wheels at the moment.)
To check if the car has the questionable bolts takes 30 second and a $3 dental mirror. Look at the back of the sprocket under the oil fill cap. If you see a pin in the bolts torx recess it has the bad bolts. Easy.
Porsche's own standard is if all the bolt parts can't be found it's new engine time. That's under warranty/CPO. There is no reason to accept less. If they won't do that walk away from the car.
I'm not keeping the Variocam bolt list. That's someone else. I'm keeping the transfer case list, but that won't be updated until I'm home in a few weeks.
Passing you on 2 wheels from all over the USA,
Don Eilenberger
To check if the car has the questionable bolts takes 30 second and a $3 dental mirror. Look at the back of the sprocket under the oil fill cap. If you see a pin in the bolts torx recess it has the bad bolts. Easy.
Porsche's own standard is if all the bolt parts can't be found it's new engine time. That's under warranty/CPO. There is no reason to accept less. If they won't do that walk away from the car.
I'm not keeping the Variocam bolt list. That's someone else. I'm keeping the transfer case list, but that won't be updated until I'm home in a few weeks.
Passing you on 2 wheels from all over the USA,
Don Eilenberger
#475
06-02-2017, 06:48 AM
Brief reply (crossing the US on 2 wheels at the moment.)
To check if the car has the questionable bolts takes 30 second and a $3 dental mirror. Look at the back of the sprocket under the oil fill cap. If you see a pin in the bolts torx recess it has the bad bolts. Easy.
Porsche's own standard is if all the bolt parts can't be found it's new engine time. That's under warranty/CPO. There is no reason to accept less. If they won't do that walk away from the car.
I'm not keeping the Variocam bolt list. That's someone else. I'm keeping the transfer case list, but that won't be updated until I'm home in a few weeks.
Passing you on 2 wheels from all over the USA,
Don Eilenberger
To check if the car has the questionable bolts takes 30 second and a $3 dental mirror. Look at the back of the sprocket under the oil fill cap. If you see a pin in the bolts torx recess it has the bad bolts. Easy.
Porsche's own standard is if all the bolt parts can't be found it's new engine time. That's under warranty/CPO. There is no reason to accept less. If they won't do that walk away from the car.
I'm not keeping the Variocam bolt list. That's someone else. I'm keeping the transfer case list, but that won't be updated until I'm home in a few weeks.
Passing you on 2 wheels from all over the USA,
Don Eilenberger
I know the check is easy - but I'm in SoCal & was looking at CayS at a dealer in AL - so I had to convince them to take pix of the cam adjuster part number as the easiest & fastest way to verify them (vs. explaining the bolts & mirror technique).
I'm not flying to a distant dealer to do the check myself, but it has become one of the prime deal-killers for me to clear up before proceeding at all on a car. The sales guy wanted to negotiate a deal first, then check bolts, I said no - send me pix, then he waffled.
I just found it odd, the resistance that I got to take the 5 mins., & wanted others to be aware if that CayS turned up somewhere, to do the check.
Safe Travels!
Tom
///////
#476
06-03-2017, 01:56 PM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Age: 44
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 0 Did Porsche tell you that a new engine is needed if all the bolt parts were not found? I called PCNA and they told me that it is up to the Dealers to determine the best way to repair the vehicle. The service manager at the Porsche dealer stated that Porsche tells them just to try to get all the pieces out and nothing about putting in a new motor.
#477
06-04-2017, 11:05 AM
Registered User
I've never spoken with Porsche about it, other people have and that's what they're reporting. Porsche doesn't want to pay twice for the labor on a warranty car, so i suspect they typically select the repair method that makes that least likely. On a non warranty car I doubt if they care.
#478
06-06-2017, 10:53 AM
UPDATE!
I have been very occupied for a while but I have some great news for everyone. After a significant amount of design time and running over 2,500 combinations of FEA & stress tests on different designs, I now have the new Titanium bolts in manufacturing as we speak! I will post some photos ones I have the prototype in hand.
The idea in this preventative measure would be to remove the valve covers and replace the bolts one at a time without even re-timing the motor. You replace one on each side and manually turn the motor over. I don't recall the entire timeframe for pulling the valve covers, but it only took about 25-30 minutes to remove and replace the bolts. I've seriously considered doing the job again and making a video that would save people thousands and thousands of dollars.
I also wanted to reiterate that the new phaser bolts are NOT steel. I saw this mentioned a couple more times and wanted to make sure that was corrected. Someone else also mentioned the many benefits of Titanium in the aircraft world, and I couldn't agree more.
I have been very occupied for a while but I have some great news for everyone. After a significant amount of design time and running over 2,500 combinations of FEA & stress tests on different designs, I now have the new Titanium bolts in manufacturing as we speak! I will post some photos ones I have the prototype in hand.
The idea in this preventative measure would be to remove the valve covers and replace the bolts one at a time without even re-timing the motor. You replace one on each side and manually turn the motor over. I don't recall the entire timeframe for pulling the valve covers, but it only took about 25-30 minutes to remove and replace the bolts. I've seriously considered doing the job again and making a video that would save people thousands and thousands of dollars.
I also wanted to reiterate that the new phaser bolts are NOT steel. I saw this mentioned a couple more times and wanted to make sure that was corrected. Someone else also mentioned the many benefits of Titanium in the aircraft world, and I couldn't agree more.
Last edited by kozzimo55; 06-05-2018 at 05:00 PM.
#479
06-09-2017, 10:41 PM
I'm about to this job - and order parts from my dealer.
IF you want me to give this a try and help contribute to a DIY, please email me.
p.s. no bolts HAVE failed as of yet however i want to do it preventive. 2011 CS, w 72k miles.
enrique at ebwerks . c 0 m
IF you want me to give this a try and help contribute to a DIY, please email me.
p.s. no bolts HAVE failed as of yet however i want to do it preventive. 2011 CS, w 72k miles.
enrique at ebwerks . c 0 m
UPDATE!
I have been very occupied for a while but I have some great news for everyone. After a significant amount of design time and running over 2,500 combinations of FEA & stress tests on different designs, I now have the new Titanium bolts in manufacturing as we speak! I will post some photos ones I have the prototype in hand.
The idea in this preventative measure would be to remove the valve covers and replace the bolts one at a time without even re-timing the motor. You replace one on each side and manually turn the motor over. I don't recall the entire timeframe for pulling the valve covers, but it only took about 25-30 minutes to remove and replace the bolts (and in my case extract a few broken bolts). I've seriously considered doing the job again and making a video that would save people thousands and thousands of dollars. My car was 250 miles & 45 days out of warranty when this all happened, so it was very unfortunately.
I also wanted to reiterate that the new phaser bolts are NOT steel. I saw this mentioned a couple more times and wanted to make sure that was corrected. Someone else also mentioned the many benefits of Titanium in the aircraft world, and I couldn't agree more. These new Titanium bolts are going to allow some of us to sleep a little better at night.
porscheman170 - I also wanted to offer my 2 cents on your situation. Having pulled the oil pan first hand to find my three bolt heads, I am extremely confident in the fact that they will be found by very thorough examination of the oil pickup tube. At first glance you won't see anything. Remove that tube and bang with a mallet and I guarantee it will free up. Trust me when I say that I spend hours (maybe days) thinking about the possible areas that the debris could have traveled. Looking closely at the oil pan design, I highly doubt that it would flush out during an oil change. All the ports on the heads are at such an angel that they would make their way down to the pan. The timing cover drops down directly into the pan as well, right in front of the chain driven pump. Even if they did magically jump into the front timing cover, there is a really high likelihood of them still hitting the pan. My thoughts after getting WAY too far into my own car, is that the oil pickup will grab all of those heads once it hits the pan. Since they can get wedged in the pickup tube pretty well, I can see how some dealerships might say that they couldn't find them all.
I have been very occupied for a while but I have some great news for everyone. After a significant amount of design time and running over 2,500 combinations of FEA & stress tests on different designs, I now have the new Titanium bolts in manufacturing as we speak! I will post some photos ones I have the prototype in hand.
The idea in this preventative measure would be to remove the valve covers and replace the bolts one at a time without even re-timing the motor. You replace one on each side and manually turn the motor over. I don't recall the entire timeframe for pulling the valve covers, but it only took about 25-30 minutes to remove and replace the bolts (and in my case extract a few broken bolts). I've seriously considered doing the job again and making a video that would save people thousands and thousands of dollars. My car was 250 miles & 45 days out of warranty when this all happened, so it was very unfortunately.
I also wanted to reiterate that the new phaser bolts are NOT steel. I saw this mentioned a couple more times and wanted to make sure that was corrected. Someone else also mentioned the many benefits of Titanium in the aircraft world, and I couldn't agree more. These new Titanium bolts are going to allow some of us to sleep a little better at night.
porscheman170 - I also wanted to offer my 2 cents on your situation. Having pulled the oil pan first hand to find my three bolt heads, I am extremely confident in the fact that they will be found by very thorough examination of the oil pickup tube. At first glance you won't see anything. Remove that tube and bang with a mallet and I guarantee it will free up. Trust me when I say that I spend hours (maybe days) thinking about the possible areas that the debris could have traveled. Looking closely at the oil pan design, I highly doubt that it would flush out during an oil change. All the ports on the heads are at such an angel that they would make their way down to the pan. The timing cover drops down directly into the pan as well, right in front of the chain driven pump. Even if they did magically jump into the front timing cover, there is a really high likelihood of them still hitting the pan. My thoughts after getting WAY too far into my own car, is that the oil pickup will grab all of those heads once it hits the pan. Since they can get wedged in the pickup tube pretty well, I can see how some dealerships might say that they couldn't find them all.
#480
06-12-2017, 07:06 AM
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Age: 44
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porscheman170 - I also wanted to offer my 2 cents on your situation. Having pulled the oil pan first hand to find my three bolt heads, I am extremely confident in the fact that they will be found by very thorough examination of the oil pickup tube. At first glance you won't see anything. Remove that tube and bang with a mallet and I guarantee it will free up. Trust me when I say that I spend hours (maybe days) thinking about the possible areas that the debris could have traveled. Looking closely at the oil pan design, I highly doubt that it would flush out during an oil change. All the ports on the heads are at such an angel that they would make their way down to the pan. The timing cover drops down directly into the pan as well, right in front of the chain driven pump. Even if they did magically jump into the front timing cover, there is a really high likelihood of them still hitting the pan. My thoughts after getting WAY too far into my own car, is that the oil pickup will grab all of those heads once it hits the pan. Since they can get wedged in the pickup tube pretty well, I can see how some dealerships might say that they couldn't find them all.
porscheman170 - I also wanted to offer my 2 cents on your situation. Having pulled the oil pan first hand to find my three bolt heads, I am extremely confident in the fact that they will be found by very thorough examination of the oil pickup tube. At first glance you won't see anything. Remove that tube and bang with a mallet and I guarantee it will free up. Trust me when I say that I spend hours (maybe days) thinking about the possible areas that the debris could have traveled. Looking closely at the oil pan design, I highly doubt that it would flush out during an oil change. All the ports on the heads are at such an angel that they would make their way down to the pan. The timing cover drops down directly into the pan as well, right in front of the chain driven pump. Even if they did magically jump into the front timing cover, there is a really high likelihood of them still hitting the pan. My thoughts after getting WAY too far into my own car, is that the oil pickup will grab all of those heads once it hits the pan. Since they can get wedged in the pickup tube pretty well, I can see how some dealerships might say that they couldn't find them all.
Thanks for the information. Is it possible drop the oil pan enough to get to the oil pickup tube without taking the engine out, or the cross member?