BlueSpark Pro+Boost Gen2
#47
05-17-2014, 09:34 PM
Been running E8 for a few days now and I can't say that I'm impressed. If the MFD/PCM is to be believed it is helping the MPG a bit, but the Gen 1 did better overall.
It also seems to have a longer tail on the torque (seems like to 3000-3200 RPMs maybe), but it doesn't have the
kick that the Gen1 gave and it really seems to be lacking at the idle/cruising RPM range (like to the point of really feeling a turbo lag)).
I'll drop them a note and get their input.
It also seems to have a longer tail on the torque (seems like to 3000-3200 RPMs maybe), but it doesn't have the
kick that the Gen1 gave and it really seems to be lacking at the idle/cruising RPM range (like to the point of really feeling a turbo lag)).I'll drop them a note and get their input.
#48
05-18-2014, 05:36 AM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Age: 76
Posts: 307
Rep Power: 30 
Sounds like you may have inadvertently been sent a Euro-spec Gen2 box. That is, one without US-spec mapping in C and E. When you contact Jason, ask him if he recommends sending your box to me for reprogramming
//greg//
//greg//
#49
05-20-2014, 11:06 AM
They are positive that I got the correct programming. He's offered to reprogram this one back to the EU spec or send my old unit back, but we know that's the wrong profile so that's not really an option.
I flogged it this morning a bit in sport mode and there was definitely more
, but still not the I used to get. Being in Sport is holding the gearing so that there isn't that initial delay as it's sitting about 2k at the minimum. I did look down at the PCM after said flogging and saw it said the trip MPG was at 23.7. Made it back to 24.1 by the time I got to the office 
I'll see what my next fill up says the real overall MPG is.
I flogged it this morning a bit in sport mode and there was definitely more
, but still not the I used to get. Being in Sport is holding the gearing so that there isn't that initial delay as it's sitting about 2k at the minimum. I did look down at the PCM after said flogging and saw it said the trip MPG was at 23.7. Made it back to 24.1 by the time I got to the office I'll see what my next fill up says the real overall MPG is.
#50
05-20-2014, 03:37 PM
Information from BlueSpark
BlueSpark Emailed the follow information:
Hi there,
Thank you for your enquiry. I will do my best to answer your questions as well as possible.
My name is Edd, I too am a Mechanical Engineer and also a Director here at Bluespark.
There are lots of things about the product that I can openly discuss and I am happy to try and explain, but unfortunately some of the things that you have requested I am not able to disclose. For example although I would like to, I am afraid that I can’t give you our data logs. The majority of our budget goes into R&D and as such our data is very valuable to us. Hopefully though I should still be able to help answer your questions about the product.
First I will attempt to answer your list of questions, and then have a look at the Dyno data that your fellow forum member posted.
What is changed on the 5 maps?
Each of the 5 maps has a distinctly different rail pressure map, which varies with accelerator position and RPM. The maps have different shapes, in order to best suit different customer’s needs. For example one map may hold power higher in the rev range, but have a modest torque output and another map may produce good torque gains, but make less peak power.
What is the boost target for each of the 5 maps?
Map A and B use boost map A which provides a 2 PSI gain throughout the rev range.
Maps C, D and E use boost map B which provides a 3 PSI gain throughout the rev range.
Does the Bluespark hold boost past the factory 3000 RPM drop off?
Yes, each boost map increases boost pressure throughout the whole rev range. It still drops off at the same rate as the standard map so as not to over-speed the turbocharger, but consistently holds either 2 or 3 psi extra boost pressure dependent on map selected.
What specifically does the fine tune potentiometer do?
The fine tune potentiometer has now been replaced on our updated product with a 10 position rotary dip switch. Despite the component changing, its function remains the same. The potentiometer/rotary DIP scales the level of gain of the whole map up or down. At setting 6 on the new style unit the level of gain is 80% of the level of gain at setting 9 (100%). On the old style unit with the potentiometer at the default 12 o’clock position the level of gain was 75%.
How much does each map raise the common rail pressure?
Rail pressure is dynamic throughout the rev range (for example rail pressure will as standard be at minimum pressure at idle (240 Bar on this engine) and at 4500RPM at full throttle it will be making maximum rail pressure)
With regard to longevity of the engine I expect that you will be most interested in the change in maximum rail pressure. These changes are as follows (first figure is at setting 6, 2nd is at setting 9):
Map A – 4.6%/5.8%
Map B – 7.8%/9.8%
Map C – 8.9%/11.2%
Map D - 8.9%/11.2%
Map E – 4.9%/6.1%
As you can see, none of the maps raise rail pressure over 10% at max rail pressure when at setting 6, and even at maximum settings on maps C and D it is just over 11%.
I have had a look through the data that we have on the Cayenne and I have also had a look at the Dyno curves that were posted on 6speedonline.
I have also done a quick search for the results from the 2010 Touareg that you referred to.
I am assuming that the results you are referring to are from this thread: http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f9...tdi-78235.html
I have copied the Dyno curve from this thread into this e-mail for reference, and also the Dyno curve from 6speedonline on Map 0:
The first thing to note is that with the unit set on Map 0, although there is no change in fuelling, there is still a change in boost pressure. This is apparent from the difference between the stock power and torque curves here. Not only did the Cayenne on Map 0 make more power overall than the Touareg (198.5hp vs 191.5hp) it also has a characteristically different start to the torque curve when compared to the Touareg.
The dip in the start of the torque curve (around 2300 RPM) will almost certainly be down to the fact that the stock Touareg is being limited by its smoke map, which is almost entirely governed by mass air flow readings. An increase in boost pressure naturally gives an increase in mass air flow and has smoothed out this flat spot very noticeably.
As such I would suggest that the Cayenne here is performing noticeably better than it would have without the unit fitted at all, so is not quite what I would consider a zero baseline.
Whilst bearing that in mind, below I have pasted the results of Map 9 as posted on the forum:
Power results here are marginally less than some of the other maps, though this is almost certainly down to external factors, as this map is actually slightly stronger at peak power than Map 7. That said I wouldn’t call this amount of variance from run to run in any way unusual.
With our new map files peak power will be up slightly compared with these figures, but torque will be significantly different. The original files based upon a European 3.0 Cayenne TDI did not have nearly as much tune at the bottom end of the rev range as our new files for the US spec model.
When compared with a computer flash we are slightly more limited in terms of maximum permissible power output at the top end of the rev range. We have to bear in mind that we don’t want to increase maximum rail pressure too much so there is a trade-off here in terms of either opting for either a lower peak power output or potentially impacting on longevity.
I can understand your expectation of higher figures than those recorded, however to summarise there are a number of reason for this:
· The map files were not updated for the US spec Cayenne. This will make a considerable difference, particularly in terms of torque.
· The Potentiometer was set at default (as far as I am aware) this will have given only 75% of the maximum available increase.
· The baseline run still had a boost increase, which compared with the stock 2010 Touareg was giving a 7bhp higher standard peak figure.
We can’t feasibly run a US spec Cayenne here, but I would expect that with the new maps, results much closer to those using the computer flash should be possible.
I hope this answers some of your questions, but if there is anything else you would like to know please don’t hesitate to ask.
Best regards,
Edd
Enjoy the reading.
The bluespark would be Ideal if one of the US tuners would be willing to do a custom tune.
Hi there,
Thank you for your enquiry. I will do my best to answer your questions as well as possible.
My name is Edd, I too am a Mechanical Engineer and also a Director here at Bluespark.
There are lots of things about the product that I can openly discuss and I am happy to try and explain, but unfortunately some of the things that you have requested I am not able to disclose. For example although I would like to, I am afraid that I can’t give you our data logs. The majority of our budget goes into R&D and as such our data is very valuable to us. Hopefully though I should still be able to help answer your questions about the product.
First I will attempt to answer your list of questions, and then have a look at the Dyno data that your fellow forum member posted.
What is changed on the 5 maps?
Each of the 5 maps has a distinctly different rail pressure map, which varies with accelerator position and RPM. The maps have different shapes, in order to best suit different customer’s needs. For example one map may hold power higher in the rev range, but have a modest torque output and another map may produce good torque gains, but make less peak power.
What is the boost target for each of the 5 maps?
Map A and B use boost map A which provides a 2 PSI gain throughout the rev range.
Maps C, D and E use boost map B which provides a 3 PSI gain throughout the rev range.
Does the Bluespark hold boost past the factory 3000 RPM drop off?
Yes, each boost map increases boost pressure throughout the whole rev range. It still drops off at the same rate as the standard map so as not to over-speed the turbocharger, but consistently holds either 2 or 3 psi extra boost pressure dependent on map selected.
What specifically does the fine tune potentiometer do?
The fine tune potentiometer has now been replaced on our updated product with a 10 position rotary dip switch. Despite the component changing, its function remains the same. The potentiometer/rotary DIP scales the level of gain of the whole map up or down. At setting 6 on the new style unit the level of gain is 80% of the level of gain at setting 9 (100%). On the old style unit with the potentiometer at the default 12 o’clock position the level of gain was 75%.
How much does each map raise the common rail pressure?
Rail pressure is dynamic throughout the rev range (for example rail pressure will as standard be at minimum pressure at idle (240 Bar on this engine) and at 4500RPM at full throttle it will be making maximum rail pressure)
With regard to longevity of the engine I expect that you will be most interested in the change in maximum rail pressure. These changes are as follows (first figure is at setting 6, 2nd is at setting 9):
Map A – 4.6%/5.8%
Map B – 7.8%/9.8%
Map C – 8.9%/11.2%
Map D - 8.9%/11.2%
Map E – 4.9%/6.1%
As you can see, none of the maps raise rail pressure over 10% at max rail pressure when at setting 6, and even at maximum settings on maps C and D it is just over 11%.
I have had a look through the data that we have on the Cayenne and I have also had a look at the Dyno curves that were posted on 6speedonline.
I have also done a quick search for the results from the 2010 Touareg that you referred to.
I am assuming that the results you are referring to are from this thread: http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f9...tdi-78235.html
I have copied the Dyno curve from this thread into this e-mail for reference, and also the Dyno curve from 6speedonline on Map 0:
The first thing to note is that with the unit set on Map 0, although there is no change in fuelling, there is still a change in boost pressure. This is apparent from the difference between the stock power and torque curves here. Not only did the Cayenne on Map 0 make more power overall than the Touareg (198.5hp vs 191.5hp) it also has a characteristically different start to the torque curve when compared to the Touareg.
The dip in the start of the torque curve (around 2300 RPM) will almost certainly be down to the fact that the stock Touareg is being limited by its smoke map, which is almost entirely governed by mass air flow readings. An increase in boost pressure naturally gives an increase in mass air flow and has smoothed out this flat spot very noticeably.
As such I would suggest that the Cayenne here is performing noticeably better than it would have without the unit fitted at all, so is not quite what I would consider a zero baseline.
Whilst bearing that in mind, below I have pasted the results of Map 9 as posted on the forum:
Power results here are marginally less than some of the other maps, though this is almost certainly down to external factors, as this map is actually slightly stronger at peak power than Map 7. That said I wouldn’t call this amount of variance from run to run in any way unusual.
With our new map files peak power will be up slightly compared with these figures, but torque will be significantly different. The original files based upon a European 3.0 Cayenne TDI did not have nearly as much tune at the bottom end of the rev range as our new files for the US spec model.
When compared with a computer flash we are slightly more limited in terms of maximum permissible power output at the top end of the rev range. We have to bear in mind that we don’t want to increase maximum rail pressure too much so there is a trade-off here in terms of either opting for either a lower peak power output or potentially impacting on longevity.
I can understand your expectation of higher figures than those recorded, however to summarise there are a number of reason for this:
· The map files were not updated for the US spec Cayenne. This will make a considerable difference, particularly in terms of torque.
· The Potentiometer was set at default (as far as I am aware) this will have given only 75% of the maximum available increase.
· The baseline run still had a boost increase, which compared with the stock 2010 Touareg was giving a 7bhp higher standard peak figure.
We can’t feasibly run a US spec Cayenne here, but I would expect that with the new maps, results much closer to those using the computer flash should be possible.
I hope this answers some of your questions, but if there is anything else you would like to know please don’t hesitate to ask.
Best regards,
Edd
Enjoy the reading.
The bluespark would be Ideal if one of the US tuners would be willing to do a custom tune.
#51
05-20-2014, 08:02 PM
I can only assume that the "6speedonline dyno results" were the ones that I did. As said in that thread in and following that post, those results are highly questionable and shouldn't be used for any kind of real reference. I'm surprised that Edd didn't call them more into question himself. Something was clearly wrong with those results as there was almost no difference between maps 6-9 which just didn't jive with the "butt dyno" results to with their claimed curve changes (shown earlier in that thread). The most likely cause was that the unit wasn't getting properly reset between runs.
I haven't looked at the linked clubtoureg info, but another reason for differences between curves is that you can't really compare curves between two different Dyno makes as each manufacturer does the calculations differently. Even between two of the same model there will still be variances which is why if you are trying to statistically track changes you want to do all your runs on the same machine if at all possible.
I haven't looked at the linked clubtoureg info, but another reason for differences between curves is that you can't really compare curves between two different Dyno makes as each manufacturer does the calculations differently. Even between two of the same model there will still be variances which is why if you are trying to statistically track changes you want to do all your runs on the same machine if at all possible.
#52
06-16-2014, 11:58 AM
Just finished up a full tank at E8 and I'm still not convinced, but I now have some numbers to look at.
With no unit over 5491.4 miles I got an average of 24.3mpg (calculated).
Over 7966.4 miles with the Gen1 I got an average of 26mpg (calculated).
So far with the Gen2 and 1192.3 miles it's averaged 25.3 (calculated).
What's not shown there is that both stock and the Gen 1 had some significant traveling miles where the Gen2 has not seen a road trip yet. So I would say that it's definitely doing better than stock and is on track for matching the Gen1.
What I also find interesting is the variance between the PCM and calculated numbers. I only have 3 tanks on stock where I recorded the PCM value and it shows a 4.34 (26.1 vs 25.01), 8.70 (25.0 vs 23.0), and 5.17 (27.7 vs 26.34) percent variance (PCM is the higher number). The best variance for the Gen1 was 7.35% (27.5 vs 25.62 and the worst was 17.14% (32.7 vs 27.91). The two Gen2 tanks have been 14.91 (27.4 vs 23.84) and 15.72 (31.0 vs 26.79) which seems to be on the high side of the Gen1 variance. There does not seem to be a variance of miles traveled or MPG (PCM or calculated) so I'm not sure why I see such a fluctuation in the variance.
So early on it seems to performing on par with the Gen1 as far as the MPG goes, but I'm still not feeling it like I did with the Gen1.
With no unit over 5491.4 miles I got an average of 24.3mpg (calculated).
Over 7966.4 miles with the Gen1 I got an average of 26mpg (calculated).
So far with the Gen2 and 1192.3 miles it's averaged 25.3 (calculated).
What's not shown there is that both stock and the Gen 1 had some significant traveling miles where the Gen2 has not seen a road trip yet. So I would say that it's definitely doing better than stock and is on track for matching the Gen1.
What I also find interesting is the variance between the PCM and calculated numbers. I only have 3 tanks on stock where I recorded the PCM value and it shows a 4.34 (26.1 vs 25.01), 8.70 (25.0 vs 23.0), and 5.17 (27.7 vs 26.34) percent variance (PCM is the higher number). The best variance for the Gen1 was 7.35% (27.5 vs 25.62 and the worst was 17.14% (32.7 vs 27.91). The two Gen2 tanks have been 14.91 (27.4 vs 23.84) and 15.72 (31.0 vs 26.79) which seems to be on the high side of the Gen1 variance. There does not seem to be a variance of miles traveled or MPG (PCM or calculated) so I'm not sure why I see such a fluctuation in the variance.
So early on it seems to performing on par with the Gen1 as far as the MPG goes, but I'm still not feeling it like I did with the Gen1.
#53
06-16-2014, 02:17 PM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Age: 76
Posts: 307
Rep Power: 30
You're over-analyzing too many small points. Take one line and follow it. Gen1 is history, so stick with Gen2. It's difficult to separate city/highway/combined, so pick one. Then elect whether you believe ECM, PCM, or pencil - and stick with one. Otherwise you'll drive yourself nuts with too many mixed variables. I'm too lazy for the pencil method, and have found the PCM data more accurate than the ECM data. I'm happy to believe that the Gen2 has return 31.5 mpg (combined) over the last 5000 miles. And that includes some 6.0 second (+/-) runs from 0-60 mph. After all, it's overall fuel economy and performance improvements we're concerned with - right?
Besides, you've already conceded that you have placed some non-BlueSpark related performance issues on your dealer's plate.
//greg//
Besides, you've already conceded that you have placed some non-BlueSpark related performance issues on your dealer's plate.
//greg//
Last edited by grohgreg; 06-16-2014 at 02:19 PM.
#54
06-16-2014, 02:54 PM
You're over-analyzing too many small points. Take one line and follow it. Gen1 is history, so stick with Gen2. It's difficult to separate city/highway/combined, so pick one. Then elect whether you believe ECM, PCM, or pencil - and stick with one. ... After all, it's overall fuel economy and performance improvements we're concerned with - right?
The point of tracking the PCM/MFD values is to see how badly it lies compared to the actual and what I see is a significant amount and even more so with either of the units.
And I'm comparing the Gen1 to the Gen2 because right not I'm not convinced that the Gen2 is showing much/any improvement over the Gen1 (though it is difficult to compare apples to apples due to the different map settings).
Besides, you've already conceded that you have placed some non-BlueSpark related performance issues on your dealer's plate.
#55
07-25-2014, 01:25 PM
I have been running at E5 for awhile. A couple of times under heavy boost (full throttle at freeway speed) I have had the engine cutout, I assume to protect from overpressure or overboost. I have the Gen2, anybody else having a similar experience?
#56
07-25-2014, 02:23 PM
Nope, nothing like that. Are you getting a CEL? Plugged it up and read out any codes?
I'm still unimpressed by this model though and haven't put it back on after pulling it for a dealer trip.
I'm still unimpressed by this model though and haven't put it back on after pulling it for a dealer trip.
#57
07-25-2014, 02:43 PM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Age: 76
Posts: 307
Rep Power: 30
nor have I. The car is designed to give you a minor engine fault (glow plug icon) any time there's an over or under boost condition. Cruise control is simultaneously disabled. Both conditions are negated once the engine is shut off and restarted. Without some kind if accompanying code, it's hard even to speculate
#58
08-11-2014, 06:13 PM
I know this thread is talking about bluespark but..
What about tuningbox.com ? Is Bluespark the best for modifying the CD?
#59
08-12-2014, 05:45 AM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Age: 76
Posts: 307
Rep Power: 30
Avoid
//greg//
#60
08-12-2014, 11:11 AM
Thanks for your the Greg!
The reason I was asking is because I am currently in the market for the new 2014(2015?) updated Cayenne Diesel. And the option to add something like BlueSpark is a huge part of my reasons to get the CD.
There are not many tuning boxes out there from reputable companies. Closet one I found to the BlueSpark is the Techart Powerkit (unsure about the cost though)
I guess I have to wait for Gen3 for the updated Cayenne Diesel...anyways the thing that is bothering me about Bluespark is that there is not that many people using it and posting videos on Youtube, not even Bluespark's official account to kind of show how it is like actually watching the performance everyone is describing.
When you were doing your research before you installed BlueSpark, how did you come to trust Bluespark and not the "tuning box.com" i mentioned 2 posts above?
Thank you again for your feedback!
(forgot the "help" in the title above)
There are not many tuning boxes out there from reputable companies. Closet one I found to the BlueSpark is the Techart Powerkit (unsure about the cost though)
I guess I have to wait for Gen3 for the updated Cayenne Diesel...anyways the thing that is bothering me about Bluespark is that there is not that many people using it and posting videos on Youtube, not even Bluespark's official account to kind of show how it is like actually watching the performance everyone is describing.
When you were doing your research before you installed BlueSpark, how did you come to trust Bluespark and not the "tuning box.com" i mentioned 2 posts above?
Thank you again for your feedback!
(forgot the "help" in the title above)
Last edited by wangstapower; 08-12-2014 at 11:11 AM. Reason: mistyped