Just curious ... were people comparing the cars in person or pictures of the cars? IMHO, that makes a big difference.

 

It actually has a much more appealing look over the likes of prime or polyseal actually. Of course Zymol will tell you different, just as Jeff Werkstatt will tell you to only use acrylic jett trigger on top of prime as opposed to numerous product of the same genre. Truth be told, longevity have never been compromised and our companies responsibility is to bring the paint to the highest standards possible using our thousands of hours of troubleshooting and comparisons unless requested a specific product line. I prefer a pre wax product to contain as little fillers and silicones as possible. If using pre wax glaze, IME Vintage has never looked better than sitting on top RMG, then again it didn't add all that much to the look of perfected black paint with RMG on top.

I know Zymol has a program where you can become a registered user or whatnot, but I feel anyone who limits themselves to one product line is cutting themselves and their clients short. There are hundreds of high quality long lasting, great looking products, and I pride myself on the amount of time I have spent with each one of them, of course it would have been much easier to just cut one of the respected companies a check and single myself out.

 

In person, they had a detailing meet, in which each side was compared. The owner didn't tell people which side had which product until the end of the meet. It should also be noted (I believe in a seperate thread) that the 5 month old Zaino outlasted the Royale as well, even with a 5 month deficit.

Looks are subjective, but I thought it was interesting none-the-less.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you actually have lab test and results from a reputable source that can back up your "opinions" so far? In my whole career as a detailer, I have respected my peers and at times agree to disagree; that’s life. You have yet support any concrete evidence, outside of your experience, on what you're saying. This can get you into a lot of trouble when asked for supporting evidence to your claims. I've never said zymol is the best and actually use many other products. I'm not an expert on zaino, but respect the opinion of someone like Brian Hare who's been using it and is an expert. Brian and I have spoken before and I was enlightened on some myths I hear about zaino. You must have an open mind to everything else around you. If I didn't, I would have missed out on Brian's intellect and knowledge. So I suggest you do the same. If someone has used a product for a decade, I think it's safe to say they’re an "expert" on that product and would want to learn from him/her instead of trying to disprove anything. It's really not productive and how do you expect to grow intellectually if you don't learn?

By the way, I didn't cut zymol a check to become a factory detailer. It was "earned". I was using zymol for about 6 years, prior to becoming a factory detailer, and spent a week with the owner learning and getting trained further about proper technique and application. Didn't cost me a penny; zymol felt they should invest into someone that cares about their product and has the passion and knowledge to educate other; as I'm doing here. Zymol is well aware I sell and use other products, but as of yet, I'm still involved with them. Guess that vouches for their principles, character, and vision.

 

I understand that you don't believe people would invest in a product such as Vintage and not maintain it with spray boosters, but that is completely irrevelent to the discussion. The fact is, with out maintaince, Vintage will not last any where near 8 months, and to claim it will is fradulent, IMO. What will stay behind is the heavy silicone base in HD-Cleanse (which I am sure in your research you have tested the water beading of it by itselt). HD-Clease is a very difficult product to remove and polish because of the silicone base.

Add boosters to the product to keep it going is not fair. If you use Zaino, for example, and boost it with Z8 after washes, you will have an infinite protection length, because Z8 will bead water for 6-8 weeks on its own. As long as you wash every 6-8 weeks, you will never see a degredation in the quality of the product.

How long have you seen Vintage go, on its own? I have seen it last over 17 months on a car kept in a climate controlled garage, but again, this was likely the silicone base of HD-Cleanse vs. the actual carnauba content of the wax. One daily drivers, I have seen it skirt off at the one month point many times. The fact is, to maintain the look, the product must constantly be upkept, because standing alone, it doesn't have durability.

 

Do I speak with chemists often? Yes, did I know you were a Zymol factory detailer, No. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, that was not my intentions.

Also expertise once again "IMO" has nothing to do with longevity, McDonalds has been in business for fifty some years, and everything they make is pretty nasty "IMO".

I have never broke down the molecules of any product, or made claims that certain products contain certain ingredients on this thread, so I think I am in the clear.

 

Interesting to read this after reading the comment you just posted.

HD-Cleanse is manfacutred by Meguiars and is very similar to #7, with several key changes including silicone structure and scent. I know you will ask for names, so I will drop them. Mike Phillips, Mike Pennington, and Scott Kennedy have all confirmed this.

You are correct, HD-Cleanse is required to get the "look" I suppose. The look you get is Vintage over HD-Cleanse. I personally prefer the "look" of Vintage of ClearKote RMG, but that is opinion and subjective of course.

I personally find HD-Cleanse very easy to work with, but the problems that people have polishing over it are documented by many high end detailers world wide, including Paul Dalton. Infact I find HD-Clease about as easy to use and Meguiars #7, which is no suprise.

 

This is why I found your comments intresting. You claim to know what you are speaking of because of personal experience and then you question others (who in online detailing circles are more respected to than yourself) because of their experience. I find it ironic, personally.

It seems like you are saying your opinion counts because of your experience, but then you go on about how Brian isn't a chemist and make it sound like his experience doesn't. It is either egotistical on your part, or you have just contradicted yourself and said your opinion isn't valid. I'm not sure of the direction you where attempting to go with those posts?

 

Your sources are the main detailers that work for Meguiar's Corporate. Do you actually have a data sheet that states zymol HD-Cleanse has silicones in it and is made by Meguiar's? If so, please post it here. If you don't, I suggest you refract your "claims" and post "facts". Paul Dalton was using Zymol for years and promoted zymol's quality. Suddenly now, when zymol chose to end their relationship with Paul, zymol is no longer the same product he believed in and sold his clients onto Paul actually uses Roayle still; at least that's what he's told me over the phone and emailed as well. Once again, please get your facts straight and not mislead others.

 

From the business aspect Zymol is a very easy and predictable product for detailers to sell clients, of course it makes sense which is why Paul did so for so long, they make great waxes no question, so it's not like he was giving up quality for the sake of running a business. His personal reasoning behind not using the products anymore shouldn't be a topic of public forum, there are far too many variables that you and anyone outside the source are unaware of.

 

Beautiful finish BTW, nice work.

 

Do you know of any detailing products that don't have silicones? I will not retract my statements because I quoted the sources. Scott Kennedy doesn't work for Meguiar's, though he has forumlated for some of the top companies in the world. I'm sure he would send me whatever information I need, if you would really like to see it.

You seem to make a lot of claims and I have not seen you retract any statements thus far. Infact, what I have seen, is you try to discredit people for having a different opinion because they don't have facts or are not chemists in one post, while claming your opinions are valid because of your experience (even though you are not a chemist yourself).

 

I do not feel I have mislead others. What I feel is misleading is posting that Zymol will give you 6-8 months of durablity, with out mentioning the upkeep necessary to achieve these results. As Brian Brice mentioned, this is very similar to dealer applied sealants that will last 5 years (with reapplication every 6 months in small print).