Nice job on the MB.

What year model was that MB? Did it have the Cermiclear coat?

I got on the website and read up on the different polishes and such and they basically all have the exact same description..... I'd like to know more of the chemistry side to the products you used in the write up. What exactly is it designed with? what is in it? what lubes are used in it? what kind of abrasives are used in the polishes besides diminishing? how about the hardness/softness and amount of the abrasives or the size or such info?

Looks like you hit it with the Cyclo 4 times with 2 polishes and 4 different pads, that's just way too much process for me. Why not just use a rotary and wool pad to do the deep cutting and finish it down 1-2 times with a final polish and foam pad? Does Gloss It polishes not work well rotary machines? or with wool? That would cut your time in half I'd think.

Also you mention a few products that they are similar too, like M105 which will cut 1200 grit scratches but your most aggresive compound says it's only good for 2000 grit scratches and yet you claim you removed more defects with one pass of yours that has less cut then with the M105 that has more cut?? Sorry but it either has fillers in it that are hiding some defects thus giving you the impression it's cutting more, you may be mistaken or Gloss It doesn't realize it can cut better then 2000 grit scratches, but my common sense tells me something just doesn't line up here....

I have a few of the products you compared them too so why would I want to switch if they're just as good as the one's I already have? What makes Gloss It better??

Honest questions, not trying to be a jerk, please don't get offended, I think answering those questions would make a huge difference in someone like me or others like me considering your Gloss It product line.

Rich, please don't have this deleted, I think these are good questions that people should have the answers too. You say education is a big deal for Gloss It so please better educate me on your products.

Thanks, Josh

BTW, I'm a pro detailer as well, that's why I'm asking these kinds of questions, I'm always looking for new and better products to invest in.

 

Excellent questions Josh...I'm looking forward to the response.

 

All of that to a loaner car? how about I loan you my car for a week!

 

Rich Light, the founder of Gloss It will be able to explain in detail the science and testing that went behind designing these products. Im just a customer who tried the stuff and loved it. Now to answer some of your questions. Mercedes switched to ceramiclear coats back in 2003, this C class was a 2005 (maybe 06) car and did have the hard ceramiclear coat. My process was experimental but it did work well. I use a Makita rotary polisher for all my correction work, no cyclo here. Gloss It reccomends using the edge buffing pads and each polish has a reccomended pad to use from the edge line but since I use Lake Country pads I had to find out which pads I had at the time worked well with these polishes. Now I always like to correct paint using the least aggresive method possible as I dont want to remove to much CC. In this case I went with Evolution cut and a cutting foam pad from LC. I could have easily removed the defects in half the time if I was using my purple foamed wool pad with Evolution cut or even Extreme cut with the orange foam cuting pad and then did a one step finishing polish but I wanted to see the ability of Evolution cut. Now after one hit of Evolution cut on the rotary using a foam cutting pad I removed most of the swirls and RIDS, I'd say the finish was about 85% perfect. Thats when I brought it out in the sun and showed some 50/50's. You can still see fine swirls in the finish. So I went back one more time with evolution cut and a heavy polishing pad to work out the last bit of swirls left on the paint to ensure I got full correction. After that as I normally do I followed up the cutting polish with a more mild fininishing type product, this time it was Evolution polish via white LC polishing pad. After this step the finish was flawless and 100% LSP ready but I decided to see if one more hit with a super soft finishing pad (LC black foam) would bring the surface to a higher gloss using Evolution polish one more time. I didnt go above about 1000rpm and made super slow passes to jewel the finish. The result was minimal but added a little extra pop to the paint before applying gloss finish but this step was not essential at all. This process was on the long side I'll admit but it got the job done properly. If I was using a wool pad and did a one step finish the results would have been just about the same but again I am still "testing" these products to find what combos work well for me. IMO Gloss It does work very well with rotary machine, Rich Light told me at his shop they do most of the correction with rotary polishers. Now for the M105 and Extreme cut comparrison I used each product on the heavily swirled panel only 1 time. And as my pictures show after one hit of each product the side which was corrected with Extreme cut came out defect free, where as the M105 side still had a few RIDS left. If I went back for a second hit of M105 using the same pad those RIDS would have came out no problem but I wanted to see which removed the most defect after 1 hit as I dont like to use aggressive compounds multiple times on a customers car. Normally for initial heavy correction its the aggressive compund followd by a heavy polish or lighter compund. I think the reason I was able to achieve better correction with the Gloss It Extreme cut is beacase it has a longer working time and breaks down smoother than M105. M105 is a great product but its difficult to work with and breaks down ultra fast, there is no spread on low rpm or stages of breakdown, I have to lay a bead on the panel and go right to 1500rpm and start working it very fast, there is no time to reduce the rpm and refine the finish like I like to do when correcting at high speed. For example I spread a product at 600-900 rpm, go to 1200rpm for a few passes the up to 1500 rpm for maximum correction and bring it back down to 1200 and finish with 900 rpm to ensure I got full breakdown, correction and minimize hologramming. I used this method (Zenith) with extreme cut and was very pleased with the results. M105 would have already flashed if I tried to spread it first and it would have gone totally dry if I tried to slow down my passes using low rpm after working it at 1500. And to answer your question about Gloss It "filling" there is no way thats possible. After every panel I polish I always do a thorough IPA wipedown and re-inspect the finish under halogens to make sure I fully broke down the product and there was no filling at all.

The reason I switched to Gloss It was because I saw the results in pictures and was impressed but also becuase the line is easier to work with. I have been using Menzerna for a long time and although the products are top quaility they are finicky and Megs M105 is the most finicky of all. Humid weather is a killer for Menzerna products and being as most of my work is done in a very hot garage with the doors closed it makes working with it annoying sometimes. Also Menzernas SIP and 106FF nano polish take a long time to fully breakdown because they were designed specifically for cermiclear. I can save time using Gloss It because the products dont take forever to breakdown and they work in any condition on any paint. Cerami, single stage you name it, Gloss It works the same on every kind. I cant say the same for Menzerna. And for sealants I have to say gloss finish is awesome. I am a Zaino freak and use their sealants on almost every job but the application is time consuming and if you want multiple coats you need to enable their curing additve called ZFX, which is another $20 on top of the price for the Z2pro sealant. I used to apply zaino by hand with the ZFX curing additive, let it haze on the paint for at least 35minutes, wiped down the paint with their Z6 QD and applied another coat of Z2pro, waited another 35minutes and buffed it off. With gloss finish there is NO haze time like Zaino. Its buff on buff off and you can layer the coats as soon as you like. Plus the look of gloss finish is just spectacular, its deep, wet and the clarity is off the charts. With Zaino the clairty is there but it lacks that deep wet nuba look that gloss finish produces. I have been topping my zaino sealants with a carnauba wax just to get that extra deep and wet look. Gloss finish has the outstanding durability and full specturm look I want. So is Gloss It better than say Menz, Megs and Zaino...IMO yes it is and its nice not having to buy products from several different companies also.

I take no offense in your questions, there good questions and I hope I answered them as best as I could. Maybe Rich can chime in as well.

 

Great explanation smoke! I would like to answer some excellent questions and give you history on gloss-it and myself!

I have owned & operated my detail business http://graniteautogrooming.com for the past 18 years starting in Boston, MASS in 1990 and moving the operation to Las Vegas, NV in 1996.

I have used about every detail product / paint correction polish you can imagine. What led me to develop my own line was the frustration of buying products that never lived up to their claim, only worked partially or just would mask or hide the problems.

In 1995 I hired a well respected chemist who has over 30 years in formulating detail products for many well known car care companies. There were several products on the market at the time I liked and had my chemist evaluate breakdown to give me the basic chemical make-up. I learned about the different abrasives & chemical ingredients from aluminum oxide, chemical softners, Silica (Fine sand /clay), Silicone emulsions, and many more which you would not recognize.

Back in 1996 is when self diminishing abrasives technology was in development. This is when I started to formulate our paint correction polishes. At the time my paint correction polishes contained aluminum oxide as the main abrasive. To make it safe for clear coat polishing Gloss-it refined the abrasive to a smaller micron size. These polishes worked well but not in all paint correction situations. Some of the drawbacks were the polish would cause a lot of powdering and dried to quickly not giving enough time to really jewel the finish and could cause more swirls and scratches. Results would vary depending the type of clear coat, about this time is when car and paint manufactures switched from solvent based to water based clear coats do to environmental issues. As you might already now this is about when we switched from cotton diapers to microfiber towels. As you know Micro fiber was a better solution to wiping and polishing on water based clear coats as was less likely to scratch.

In 1998 I was searching for new technology in abrasives’ for changing clear-coat technology and noticed a few detail companies that were using a chemical softeners with heat inducing that worked wet giving an ability to spend more time polishing the finish without causing powdering or drying to quick. Some drawbacks in the polish did not have enough bite for more severe paint imperfections and tended to be greasy. Gloss-it also met with Jeff Silver from Menzerna at SEMA about 8 years ago and noticed that they had introduced a self diminishing technology with aluminum oxide chemical softeners’ together. Jeff and I had talked extensively about how abrasive technology was changing due to the clear coats evolving and different polishing techniques that were know needed. I had shared with Jeff some of my experience with different abrasives and the techniques used with different types of foam, wool pad and different polishers used by my detail operation. Jeff was very curious about my detailing experience and polishing techniques and offered me free product my testing and evaluation. Menzerna products offered at this time were Intensive, speed cut and Final.

As Jeff and I talked I realized he had little knowledge when came to application and polishing experience. I explained to Jeff I would test and evaluate his polishes and give him feedback and best application procedures, pad choice for different polishers. I explained to Jeff I was currently working on my own paint correction polishes. He was totally cool and we continued to build a friendly business relationship. I spent the mext two years polishing and using Menzerna polishes, but still was not achieving the results I desired. I explained to Jeff that his polishes were not successful on all paint finishes nor could the polishes have 100% paint correction success. He asked how I came to this determination and explained that for years I used an alcohol / water mixture to strip any residual oils and used proper lighting with Halogens or natural sunlight was needed to show true paint correction. Menzerna was close but no cigar.

Back to the drawing board I went. The aluminum oxide was the problem! I looked and tested many different abrasives before finding an all natural abrasive that was milled to a very fine micron that completed the missing link. My next step was to figure the right amount of this abrasive along with the other chemical ingredients. This took about 3 years of testing and tweaking on thousands of my clients exotic and luxury vehicles.

To answer your question, yes gloss-it polishes can be used with hi-speed, orbital, or even the new flex machine. We are currently offer polishing guides on http://glossitonline.com for the Cyclo and UDM. I’m working on the hi-speed and flex polishing guides right now. The pad of choice right now is the edge pads. We are testing Lake Country and some well know others. For professionals looking for something quicker and less steps on full paint correction I recommend the Fine lambs (1600 jewelling down to 1400) wool pad with extreme cut for removing heavy paint imperfections followed with Extreme cut and foam cutting pad ( yellow if it’s ours ) starting at 1,400 jewelling down to 1,000. Then follow with foam polishing pad (Green if it ours) and evolution polish at 1,000 then Finishing Pad (Blue if it’s ours) 1,000.

Yes, I know this is four steps not including the final finish. But for those of us that are professionals looking for paint perfection results with hi-speed this is still a far cry from the days of 7 to 10 steps. In my opinion there is most defiantly skill involved not just product.
For the non-professional paint correction, 70% to 85% can be achieved with the UDM, Cyclo or Flex machine in as little as 2 to 3 steps. It would take a trained eye to see the difference.

I will not claim to know it all, but certainly have spent over a decade trying to perfect the quickest and most user friendly paint correction & polishing system. Words will not convince you, but seeing is believing. You will have to be the judge!

Rich

 

Smoke, thank you for the more thorough walk through of your process and reasoning. As a fellowing pro detailer I can really appreciate that and the time it takes to post up such processes, I do it all the time on Autopia.

I agree with a lot of what you said but disagree with the Menzerna being finiky, yes M105 is finiky but I really just haven't had that experience with the Menz line. Also I typically spritz a few sprays of water on the surface with most of the polishes I use so that may make a difference in it being finiky or not. Most chemicals will have issues depending on weather and other varying elements.

Smoke, you mention Zaino being difficult and time consuming with the ZFX and such, but doesn't Gloss It have an accelerator product like the ZFX Zaino uses?? I thought I saw it on there website?

http://www.gloss-it.net/store.php?ca...&#bottomAnchor

Here's Zaino's link:

http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/...roduct_Count=7

They seem to be similiar, of course not the same chemical make up, but seem to do similiar jobs as the Zaino is used to speed up cure time, cross link, extend durability and gloss and the Gloss It seems to enhance durability and gloss and cross link also.....

To be honest, based on the application instruction of the Gloss It accelerator the Gloss It Activator seems more like Zaino's old Z1 Polish Lock you'd have to put on first then apply the sealant directly on top. Sorry but that doesn't seem easier to me then the Zaino system.

"I am a Zaino freak and use their sealants on almost every job but the application is time consuming and if you want multiple coats you need to enable their curing additve called ZFX, which is another $20 on top of the price for the Z2pro sealant. I used to apply zaino by hand with the ZFX curing additive, let it haze on the paint for at least 35minutes, wiped down the paint with their Z6 QD and applied another coat of Z2pro, waited another 35minutes and buffed it off. With gloss finish there is NO haze time like Zaino. Its buff on buff off and you can layer the coats as soon as you like."

But I'm curious does the Gloss It sealant cure instantly without the Accelerator as you're suggesting or do you need to add the Accelerator step in before sealing with Gloss It??

My intent is not to compare the Gloss It line with the Zaino line, just the two additives really.

Again, not trying to be dogmatic, just trying to get a fix on tings....

Thanks, Josh

 

Rich, thank you for the history on your products, that is very valuable info to someone like me who takes my detailing, products, research and educating of clients very seriously.

I like to know the whole truth about most everything. I'm very much a purist when it comes to detailing as well as a perfectionist of course.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

One more however is what kind of lubricants are used in your products that allows them to have a longer working time as smoke mentioned??

Thanks again,
Josh

 

I appreciate that. Now I hope Rich can chime in again and explain the science behind the gloss activator but Im pretty sure all that is is an additive which extends the durability of gloss finish and it might add some extra gloss to the paint. Im pretty sure you dont "need" gloss activator to apply back to back coats of gloss finish, like you would need ZFX to do with Zaino Z2 or Z5pro. And even with ZFX enabled you still need to wait at least 30 minutes before applying that second coat.

I know you are mainly curious about the 2 additives but I just want to say that I was comparing Gloss Finish and Zaino to see which gave the finish an overall better look and as I said before the reason I like Gloss Finish is because it has that full spectrum shine with the durability, depth, wetness and clarity which IMO is something Zaino cant offer by itself, hence why I often top it with a carnauba wax. Zaino is great for a super slick shine and crystal clear finish but it lacks that deep wet glow. Sometimes I find Zaino on black looks a little sterile, just shine and calirty is all it offers when often a finish needs that deep glow to stand out. Now on whites and silver Z2pro is great by itself but on dark cars, especially metallics I find a deep wet glow really enhances the finish. My process latley has been Z2 or Z5 ZFX'd topped with 2 thin coats of P21s 100% to get the look I want.

 

I have no problem answering anyone questions regarding "why" gloss-it polishes are different. I realize that very few people until a few months ago heard of gloss-it. I guess you can say we are a sleeper company.

Joshvette had asked what lubricants in the gloss-it polishes that give more work time. To be honest with you these lubricants are exclusive of gloss-it and cannot be duplicated. They are very unique in the manner they work. There is no simple answer other then it works! Its kind like famous Texas barbecue sauce would not be a secret if you knewJ

Smoke had made a comparison between Zaino Z-2 and Gloss finish. Smoke also asked a great question regarding the gloss activator. The Zaino and Gloss Finish are similar in they both contain a synthetic polymer. Zaino has its own proprietary synthetic and so does Gloss finish. We both offer a activator to bump the gloss and give greater durability. Now the big difference is in a couple areas. Zaino is not user friendly and has a long set up time and can be greasy and difficult to remove in humid weather. Gloss Finish and Gloss Activator can be applied and remove right away with no setup time and is not temperature sensitive.


Zaino is a great product for gloss and durability, but I agree with Smoke can delay the detail time and does not come close to our depth, clarity and color enhancement. Gloss activator is not required. Gloss finish by its self has great durability. I have extensively tested layering carnauba over the gloss finish and see no difference what so ever, you’re better off putting one more kote of Gloss Finish.


Gloss-it we be introducing a few new products this summer. We are very excited to launch a limited production of our new Signature Gloss Finish. This will be the first One step Catalyzed water based paint polish offered in the car care world. This product will only be available thru authorized gloss-it signature detailers. There are several beta testers who currently have this product. We are extremely confident and have tested this product for the past three years in many different climates. We are amazed at the gloss rent ion after 12 months. Smoke has just been offered the Signature Gloss for Beta testing and should be receiving sometime this week. I'm sure he will be posting his results for board members to enjoy!

Thought you might enjoy the Signature Gloss Finish on this 2008 Limited CL65.





Picture's do not due this car any justice!

 

Smoke, here's a quote from the Zaino link I provided about the cure time with ZFX.

ZFX™ is a Zaino Show Car Polish cross-linking and acceleration additive. It offers near-instant cure time, reduced surface distortion, enhanced polish flexibility, and improved bonding to both paint and additional layers of Show Car Polish. In simple terms, ZFX™ vastly improves paint surface appearance and increases polish durability.

Sure, it's probably not a bad idea to wait a half hour between coats, you can do the interior or rims and such while you wait, but I have regularly applied it back to back with 5-10 minutes inbetween and never had any issues. I've done it on my personal vehicles and have great results. It's really not that difficult at all.

The Gloss It Accelerator description and application really reminds me alot of the old Z1 Polish Lock, designed do to the exact same thing.....

Smoke, I do agree with you about the Zaino having more of a glassy wet shine to it, but I think it looks good, yes on solid black a carnuaba is the way to go but to be honest I typically polish out all the imperfection and swirls so the LSP I use is really only for protection and durability for me so I never really use it for looks or to enhance the shine of the finish since the finish is 99% perfect. (it's kind of like using a steak sauce on a $50 dollar steak at a 5 star resturaunt, the chef would be highly insulted since it's perfect as is)......but for our purposes that shine and glow does need to be highly protected.

For example..... do you really think it'd make much difference if it were protected with a nuba or a polymer??

 

I simply follow the instructions on the box of ZFX when I use it, it says to wait 20-30mins so thats what I do...

From the Zaino site about ZFX application

"Squirt a dime size dab of polish on your applicator and rub it into your paint using circular hand motions. Then, go over the same area using a straight back and forth motion on top panels and an up and down motion on side panels. Allow the polish to haze over for 20 to 30 minutes."

I aim for 100% perfection on every car I do, especially since I mainly use sealants I make sure the finish is as defect free as possible becuase some sealants(Z2pro) I have found can sometimes highlight those slight imperfections after application. Wheras sometimes a wax can mask them. Now I make it a habit to show some "post polishing" shots with no LSP as I did with this blue Mercedes. If you see the finish after correction with no gloss finish it looks very deep and has a great shine already, gloss finish just added that extra pop and of course the protection which is the most important. I want that stunning finish to last! If proper polishing and correction is done than an LSP should only visually enhance the finish minimally but its job is to protect first and foremost.


"For example..... do you really think it'd make much difference if it were protected with a nuba or a polymer??"

Does it make a difference? Well you can say that for just about anything when it comes to detailing. Its all the little extra steps us detailers take to achieve that perfect finish, inside and out, I feel everything last thing makes a difference. It "makes a difference" when 4 or 5 months down the road the car still looks brand new thanks to the use of a high quality sythetic sealant compared to a natural carnaba wax which could wear off after a just weeks, but then again the car could have looked better in those first few weeks thanks to the wax over a sealant. See what im getting at?

I havent found a product to give me both benefits of both products until now. The reason I like Gloss Finish because it looks good on anything. I dont need to switch LSP's for different cars to get different looks, nubas for black and sealants for silver for example. I want to give my customers cars maximum durability and maximum looks. I dont like sacraficing one for the other as I find you do with using either a wax or sealant. With Gloss finish you get the best of both worlds with sealant clarity and durability and wax depth and glow. What more could you want?

 

Smoke, it all sounds good. I just got off a lengthy call with Rich, it was a good conversation about all these things and it sounds impresive.

Now I'll just have to pick some up and do my own testing and see how it goes....

Thanks for the dedication to the craft.

Josh

 

Thank you Josh, and I couldnt agree more when you say seeing is believing.

Heres a panel which I mauled the hell out of with steel wool and a stiff bristle brush and then did a full correction using Gloss It Extreme cut, Evolution cut and Evolution polish.

Seeing is believing...




Ill post my full write up tommorow