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Detailer's Domain: E90 M3 with Swissvax Divine

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Old 07-04-2008 | 09:16 PM
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Old 07-04-2008 | 09:16 PM
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Wash



 
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Old 07-04-2008 | 09:17 PM
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Interior before




Interior after




Paint after wash (imperfections)



 
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Old 07-04-2008 | 09:20 PM
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Swissvax Divine



After shots:

 
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Old 07-04-2008 | 09:20 PM
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Old 07-04-2008 | 09:21 PM
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Last shot:
 
  #7  
Old 07-05-2008 | 12:15 PM
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Nice work again phil! I noticed that this Bimmer has a lot of factory orange peel? The clarity is very foggy on the shots you took on the drivers door panel. Also noticed the 3rd to last shot you can see RIDS in the rear drivers fender?? Just an observation.
 
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Old 07-05-2008 | 01:06 PM
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I am really not impressed with this Swissvax Divine wax...

I know that the Swissvax Divine wax cost upwards of $2,500. Based on this price tag, I would expect to see the BEST results in the industry. If I were to spend this much money on a product, I would expect the deepest, darkest, wettest, and most clarity of any other product on the market.

However, the close-up shots don't seem to provide results any better than some of the other waxes, polishes, and polymers I use. In the past I have used waxes and Zaino; recently I started using a new product, Gloss-It. I have to say looking at some of your shots in the doors, hood, and close up, I just don't see where paying 125 times more for Swissvax is worth it.

I have seen photos of cars with Gloss-It products and Zaino polishes that blow these photos away.

This photo of the shot with the Porsche in the door just looks so hazy and foggy.



This is a shot of a similar reflection from and application of the Gloss Finish - the cost? Around $20.00.



The shot of the house and trees in the hood also just does not have pop or clarity like this photo of a similar reflection.



I am not convinced why there are outrageously expensive waxes like Zymol and Swissvax when the ends do not justify the means. What benefit does the $2,500 wax give you that Gloss-It or Zaino doesn't for a fraction of the cost?

I am in no way knocking your detail skills. The detail looks great and you did an outstanding job. My main concern here is the lack of clarity and depth using the Swissvax Divine product.

Ever since I started using polymer polishes on my cars, I have never seen a wax that can replicate the same depth and clarity for a comparable cost.
 
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Old 07-05-2008 | 02:26 PM
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Cyclo, I'm sorry but you are misrepresenting things. I agree the high end carnuaba waxes are all hype and not worth the money as you can only sqeeze so much nuba in there....

First off you can not see depth with a single lens camera, physically impossible, that's why God gave us two eyes and not one. (talk to your eye Dr. if you don't believe me)

Another thing, I don't care if you're Zaino, GlossIt, Swisswax or whatever, no wax will remove orange peel it's not possible.

The reason your reflective shots look better is due to two things.

1. The factory paint is finished better with less or no orange peel.

2. The shot is a different angle that does not show the orange peel very well.

For you to come out and say "my wax is better" cause the paint has less orange peel just shows ignorance.

Sorry but pics don't always mean anything when it comes to showing results. Sure when using the right lighting I can show the damage and correction well enough, but you can play with the camera settings or just slightly focus the lens off and it will not show the swirls even in the same lighting, I've seen it done.

Get ticked at me if you want but I am telling you the truth.

Josh
 

Last edited by JoshVette; 07-05-2008 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 07-05-2008 | 02:35 PM
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I do not totally agree! Yes light does make a difference, but I can post pictures of a dark color BMW M3 in identical light situations and can guarantee 100% a paint difference.

I have an extensive painting back round which lead me to develop the paint correction polishes. I will agree that paint can vary from car to car and maybe this vehicle missed the QT, but i have worked with enough new 2008 and 2009 Bmw's to know what results can be achieved!
 
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Old 07-05-2008 | 02:38 PM
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Orange Peel is due to factory technique in the way they paint there panels.

First if the panel is vertical and not horizontal it is more likely to finish with OP since the paint is sprayed on and wanting to drip in the direction of gravity (down the side of the panel).

If the panels were layed flat (horizontally) they will be less likely to cause that ripple effect since they will not be dripping/running down the side but rather into itself causing a slightly flater layer of paint (this will give the paint better clearity and a more mirror like finish).

Another reason for heavy OP like that is the fact that they paint the panel, clear coat it and bake it to speed up the cure time which dries and hardens the clear coat before the ripples have a chance to smooth out.

It comes down to manufacturers saving money by doing things quicker.

Josh
 
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Old 07-05-2008 | 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gloss-it
I do not totally agree! Yes light does make a difference, but I can post pictures of a dark color BMW M3 in identical light situations and can guarantee 100% a paint difference. (Paint correction yes, but not OP removal which was the complaint of the picture being so blurry, it's the OP that makes the paint blurry)

I have an extensive painting back round which lead me to develop the paint correction polishes. I will agree that paint can vary from car to car and maybe this vehicle missed the QT, but i have worked with enough new 2008 and 2009 Bmw's to know what results can be achieved! So have I

Rich, I'm not saying the lighting in these pics and the focus on the camera in those shots were tweaked to make something look better then it is, not questioning that at all. I'm just saying pics don't always mean anything cause I have seen the pics where the exact same lighting was used but no correction done and a simple adjustment of the focus done to show no swirls. It was done just to prove a point.

Anyways, the bluriness of those pics is due to the camer focusing on the M3 badge instead of the door as well as the paint having bad orange peel, the point is you cannot remove orange peel with an abrasive polish let alone a wax so for someone to say they make the paint mirror perfect compared to a highly orange peeled paint due to a polish and wax is highly misrepresentation of what your products can do.

Orange Peel can only be removed by wetsanding/colorsanding as you well know.

I'm sure Gloss It can remove swirls well enough but not OP unless you're telling me otherwise?

Not trying to argue, just trying to educate anyone looking at this thread thinking they can go buff out the OP on there car.

Josh
 

Last edited by JoshVette; 07-05-2008 at 02:50 PM.
  #13  
Old 07-05-2008 | 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoshVette
Rich, I'm not saying the lighting in these pics and the focus on the camera in those shots were tweaked to make something look better then it is, not questioning that at all. I'm just saying pics don't always mean anything cause I have seen the pics where the exact same lighting was used but no correction done and a simple adjustment of the focus done to show no swirls. It was done just to prove a point.

Anyways, the bluriness of those pics is due to the camer focusing on the M3 badge instead of the door as well as the paint having bad orange peel, the point is you cannot remove orange peel with an abrasive polish let alone a wax so for someone to say they make the paint mirror perfect compared to a highly orange peeled paint due to a polish and wax is highly misrepresentation of what your products can do.

Orange Peel can only be removed by wetsanding/colorsanding as you well know.

I'm sure Gloss It can remove swirls well enough but not OP unless you're telling me otherwise?

Not trying to argue, just trying to educate anyone looking at this thread thinking they can go buff out the OP on there car.

Josh
Josh.... I am not trying to imply or represent that gloss-it polishes will remove 100% OP. I do agree that to remove 100% of orange peel that wet sanding is required.

I will say at the gloss-it detail facility we have greatly reduced some orange peel through paint correction with an orbit, extreme cut followed by evolution cut, and evolution polish. I will not claim 100% but at least 50% improvement. I know it hard to believe but you will have to duplicate in your own test environment.

One thing that shocked me How a company can sell a container of wax for $2,500. The shine is not bad, but worth $2,500. I have seen P21s give a better end result for 39.00 dollars, This is a fraction of the cost!

Josh tell me you don't agree?
 
  #14  
Old 07-05-2008 | 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gloss-it
Josh.... I am not trying to imply or represent that gloss-it polishes will remove 100% OP. I do agree that to remove 100% of orange peel that wet sanding is required.

I will say at the gloss-it detail facility we have greatly reduced some orange peel through paint correction with an orbit, extreme cut followed by evolution cut, and evolution polish. I will not claim 100% but at least 50% improvement. I know it hard to believe but you will have to duplicate in your own test environment.

One thing that shocked me How a company can sell a container of wax for $2,500. The shine is not bad, but worth $2,500. I have seen P21s give a better end result for 39.00 dollars, This is a fraction of the cost!

Josh tell me you don't agree?

I definately agree with you about the overpriced carnuaba's, I can't stand them preying on people's ignorance like they do thinking it's a better nuba cause it's more expensive....

Some will always buy the most expensive 'anything' just cause it's the most expensive. That's not my problem, but I bet if they knew the truth about the actual Nuba % and contents they wouldn't be so quick to spend the money.

Nothing against Detailer'sDomain.

Josh
 
  #15  
Old 07-05-2008 | 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JoshVette
Cyclo, I'm sorry but you are misrepresenting things. I agree the high end carnuaba waxes are all hype and not worth the money as you can only sqeeze so much nuba in there....
I am not misrepresenting things...I think you did not even read my post, you just jumped straight to trying to defend this guy and his detail and what product he is using. Not just that one photo that is so called blurry due to a focusing problem, but every single photo of the completed detail does not have clarity and depth that a polymer gives the paint,esp with a so called name brand wax that cost $2,500 dollars!

Originally Posted by JoshVette
First off you can not see depth with a single lens camera, physically impossible, that's why God gave us two eyes and not one. (talk to your eye Dr. if you don't believe me)
Again you are bypassing my entire post of clarity and depth in the paint. I am not some newb here. I know about OP and how it occurs during painting, how to stop it from happening and how to remove it properly. What is a client going to look at when trying to decide if he wants someone to detail his/her vehicle with some $2,500 wax or some $35.00 polish or what ever. Its the photos that you take with your camera that is going to sell them to contact you and use your services. The client will not be able to see the car you just completed in person with his own two eyes, he is going to make judgment with what they see in the photos you portray. And in the above photos they do not portray a vehicle that just had a $2,500 wax product applied to it. I know OP can hamper the depth and shine, but I have seen photos of cars with major orange peel and you could still make out clarity and depth thru the OP in natural light using other products.

Originally Posted by JoshVette
Another thing, I don't care if you're Zaino, GlossIt, Swisswax or whatever, no wax will remove orange peel it's not possible.
Well Zaino is not a wax, its a polymer polish, same with Gloss-It, and yes the non-aggressive polishes and waxes will not remove OP, but a good compound will start to remove or diminish the effects of the OP in the paint.

Originally Posted by JoshVette
The reason your reflective shots look better is due to two things.

1. The factory paint is finished better with less or no orange peel.
Ok so lets try another photo, one that has factory OP and a poloymer product applied.



In this photo you can see the OP but you can also see the clarity that goes beyond the OP from the polymer product. I don't see this clarity in the application of the Swissvax Divine above.


Originally Posted by JoshVette
For you to come out and say "my wax is better" cause the paint has less orange peel just shows ignorance.
Again you totally did not even read my post as I was not even saying my wax is better than your wax. What I was posting was how come a $2,500 dollar wax does not look any better than a $35.00 polish. And I never even brought up OP in my post, you just pulled that out of your...

Originally Posted by JoshVette
Sorry but pics don't always mean anything when it comes to showing results.
So you might as well just take off all your photos from your site since they do not mean anything or cant show results of your work to your clients. What do you think makes someone pick up the phone and call you for a detail? Its the photos that you take to show off your work.


Originally Posted by JoshVette
Get ticked at me if you want but I am telling you the truth.
I am not getting ticked but when you are going to quote someones reply you need to read the whole post and study it some before just going off.

I am just tying to figure out why a $2,500 dollar wax is not any better than some $30.00 polish. If you want to answer anything from this post, answer that and stick to the subject at hand and not make this some off topic, off post thread. I am not trying to hijack this thread and say my wax is better than your wax... use it instead...
 


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