the mp4-12c looks like a compact jaguar xj220. that being said, i'd take the mclaren. no question.

 

McLaren is actually quite a bit faster, to 150mph it is about 10 car lengths ahead. Doesn't take a genius to see why, it weights 150lbs less and has more power and torque. It outperformed both the 458 and 911 GT2 RS in every category in the following C&D test. It is also a lot less expensive than Ferrari. 458 might've been cool when it came out, but here in Miami you see 10 of them every day. McLaren is way cooler, faster, and less expensive, so it wins

Ferrari: 0-150mph: 15.0 seconds
McLaren: 0-150mph: 13.9 seconds.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...911-gt2-rs.pdf

 

Would also like to mention that McLaren was an incredible 2.8 seconds faster than 458 at the Top Gear test track. It was much faster than Veyron, Enzo, Zonda, Koengisiegg, etc. The only car that was faster on that track was Ariel Atom V8, and only by 1 second. MP4 is simply incredible, I don't think anything will touch it performance-wise for a while. Another factor that cannot be overlooked is the V8 twin-turbo engine. If this car is that fast stock, imagine what a simple ecu tune will do! McLaren really made a car that's on a different level than anything else right now, I think people don't realize how amazing this car is just yet. Wait a year or so and this car will be universally considered the best modern supercar in the world, no less than McLaren F1 was in the 90's.

 

Have we forgotten that the MP4 12C was tuned for that track? This is nothing more than a single lap time. Nobody is debating the performance ability of the McLaren, if I've learned anything on here - it is about the experience. When we get to this level of performance, it becomes about preferences. The McLaren appears to be a very well rounded experience with performance, technology, image, etc...

Let's be realistic, though - who is buying these to participate at their local sanctioned time trial events? Is this for bragging rights?

I think the reason the McLaren F1 was heralded as a premier supercar in the '90s is because anybody with enough money could hold their foot down for a few minutes in a straight line, and achieve some high speeds.

 

3 seconds on a 1.7 mile technical track is on a whole different performance universe though, tuned for the track or not. In other tests I've read, Ariel Atom V8 is almost as quick on track as Radical SR3 so coming within a second of these dedicated high-end track cars is quite amazing!

 

I'm not disputing the awesome performance... I guess I'm disputing the appearance of its domination.

If it is that good, leave it at the stock configuration.

The GT-R made a slight HP increase, and a slight chassis adjustment - and shaved off 2 secs (1:17.8 from 1:19.7). Some of that is the driver (I believe). I do not think it was THAT much better, when Nissan's own test driver could get about 4 secs (I don't recall exactly) around 13 miles.

I personally feel that the new stig is achieving better times than the previous (458 laptime), and the adjustments exacerbated the difference.

I say - leave the tuning out, run it stock - run a new lap in 458, and the times will be VERY close.

All we have to do now is try and find a 'press' Ferrari that wasn't tweaked for a given surface/track.

 

This is an interesting conversation. Having owned a bunch of 458's, a spyder and an mp4, I can tell you that it's kind of a pointless exercise. I'll put it this way, the Italia is a better car and makes an easier to drive experience. It also looks nicer and is more comfortable. The mp4 is faster although most people will be faster on a track in the Italia: unless they are a professional in which case you will be faster in the mp4. In a straight line the mp4 goes like hell on wheels. It's practically dangerous it takes off so fast. The turbos activate and you get pushed back in your seat. The Italia has more soul with the finest sound of any car I've ever owned. The stutter scream when braking is unreal. The interior is superb and comfortable and personally I find the steering wheel buttons a lot easier to use and get used to. The mp4 has things that are a bit distracting. For example the gear lever is a seesaw and connects to the other side. This is a bit strange feeling. Mounted on the wheel I have lost them at times in turns. Yes I realize that f1 cars have them that way but I'm just giving you personal preference. Interior of the Mac is comfy but spartan and not as luxurious. I love the tiny wheel but the interior is tough to access. It's hard to get in and out of with the crazy doors. It's also hard because the Mac has the seats pushed to the middle so you have a big big big door sill to get over to get to the seat. Then the footwell is extremely small. It's seriously like a plank to hop over. There's also the suspension. It's interesting. I personally prefer the direct feel of the Italia but there is no denying that the Mac has a great and interesting feel with all hydraulics going on.
Honestly, the Mac is more of a competitor to a harder core track car. I think it's a competitor (and better) to the 911 turbo S. it's harder to drive than a 458. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic car. I just feel that if you are buying an exotic to tool around in and you aren't a harder core driver, the Italia is the way to go. If you are a harder core track guy or you just want to be in a car that there are fewer of and is faster than the Mac is the way to go. Or, heh, you could have both
PS its NOT cheaper. In fact my invoice looks practically the same.

 

If you find a mp-4 12c for less than a 458 let me know PLEASE. Any price I have found has been far over any 458. If any the Mclaren is way more expensive.

 

Wait for the 458 Scud and MP4-12C GT3 street model. Buy both.

 

Very interesting!!!!!

Thank you wise one...

 

MSRP is exactly the same. I'm literally looking at the MP4 sticker on my desk and it's actually $6,240 cheaper than my last 458.

 

Thanks clearing this up. I guess I was just basing it off of cars in dealers possession.

 

Since I have never driven either car, my opinion is only about the looks.

When this thread first started, it was overwhelmingly the 458. I didn't even think it was much of a competition.
I've come to read more about the McLaren and it's marvelous tech and appreciate the car more. But its looks have started to grow on me as well. At first i thought of it as sorta uninspired.
After seeing a couple in person, I realized it has its own unique and recognizable styling thats quite attractive.
I actually saw 2 today, which is a first, and couldn't take my eyes off. That's how I react to Ferrari's. That means the competition is real.

 

With all gadgets built-in to the car, can "normal" people actually use the full potential of the car? Pretty much all-show-no-go if you can't.

 

In a word, "No". And normal people will be faster on that track in a 458. In fact, normal as well as most (I'll say 90%) track people would be faster on that track in a 458. Whoever is under that white helmet will be faster in the Mac but that same person can also handle a z-01 faster around that track then a 458. It is not all show no go, since it has the chops but you just most likely don't have the talent yet.
(by "you" I don't mean you personally but you generally)