What's the consensus on having ceramic brakes ('04 GT3) for track use? Am I asking for unneeded expense in terms of pads, etc. or will these in fact last long enough to not worry about them? Thanks in advance,
Vivek

 

I'm super interested in this topic as well. BUT from what I know as long as you keep the pads up above 50% wear you should be fine for many seasons. I'm looking at a GT3RS w/ PCCB, or a GT2 if the sales order isn't signed soon and I want to track/PCA Club Race it. The carbon disks are roughly 5200 a set to replace (from what I hear)... YIKES... BUT since cup cars still use steel rotors I'm wondering if this option isn't economical enough.

 

PCCB are not recommended for track use. I believe they have a tendency to pit over time. Most club racers convert to steel rotors. The cup cars run steel rotor in the front, IIRC.

As HCN wrote, they are expensive to replace. So in response to your question, yes - they are an unneeded expense. Pull them off, convert to steel, and save them for when you sell the car.

 

Since that I knew that I would be tracking my car every chance that I get, I ordered mine with the stock steels.

 

From what ive heard, they PCCBs do tend to pit over time. Ive seen a few 6speeders discussing this issue, and they seem to have changed the rear PCCBs to steelies since calipers are the same, just swap out the rotors and pads. I cant recall the members name but he had a White GT3 with Blue wheels and Blue GT3 decals across the side. He would be a good person to ask.

Another alternative, is to go with some big reds, and then upgrade to the Brembo setup like this...



They provide better pedal feel during daily driving and much less brake fade on the track, along with a wide range of pad choices. Not to mention a reduction in the rotational mass in each corner.....

Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions about the Brembos or would like to place an order

 

If you use the right pads PCCBS are no problem Gen II (997) are even better than Gen I(996) if they some how do fail then change to Irons. Most Porsche owners consider PCCBS a must now. I have had Gen I's (a 996 Gt3) and the Gen II(997 GT3) and had no problems with either. If you get the right fluid so the fluid doesnt boil on the track and the ABS goes nuts on the rotors then even better. I will never own another 911 without PCCBs. the weight loss is great..
Resale on GT3s almost requires PCCBs. Having the option of PCCBS is better than not having it.

 

I was told that MY 2005 forward was GenII; that would mean that 04 GT3 is GenI, 05 GT3 would be GenII. If this is incorrect, exactly when did Porsche stop Gen I?

 

DT
I cant say for sure. but all the 996 GT3 should be Gen I's. I think the Gen II's came out with the 996 TT S(Wuz that a Cab?). So it was a late 05 release after the 996GT3 stopped production.
In fact I would call the 997 PCCB a Gen III. they are bigger than the Gen II.
But probably the same formula etc etc just bigger.
either way I love the brake. I can hardly wait till I feel the New FIKSE wheels I ordered
with the low weight of the PCCBs. It should be a great drive.

 

OG, correct. All 996 GT3's had Gen 1 PCCB brakes. 996 turbo S, coupe and cab, had the Gen II PCCB's along with the 997 carrera.

 

That would be Jim Bacus, I think.

 

I take the ceramics off just to save them if I ever sell the car. I love the way the ceramics work, I just don't want to ever see the replacement bill!

 

Gentlemen:

There seem to be a lot of myths as to reliability of PCCB's under track use under extreme conditions:

1. PCCB's or ceramics are better than any steel rotor out there under severe braking.
This is a proven fact!

2. Porsche's OEM PCCB's can last as long as any NON PCCB rotor and will when used correctly.

3. The failure of PCCB's is often the caused by the user and not the actual part failing.


Why do they fail or pit?

1. Often times the rotor is damaged by someone swapping wheels at the track or home and not being careful. The rotor is ceramic and it is very easily damaged by a wheel falling on it. This often happens on the track when wheels are swapped. Half the time people dont even know they have done this.

Consider this ........ You eat off of fine china which is porcelain. It with stands high temperatures and use for years. Yet if you take a knife or a sharp object and hit the edge you will chip or fracture the porcelain and weaken the material.
Well the same thing happens when you drop a wheel on a PCCB or ceramic rotor.



2. The optimum operating temperature of ceramic brakes is very high. 9 out of 10 times the brakes are not brought up to temperature correctly. If the rotor is heated up and then cooled down and heated up and then cooled down this causes the material in the rotor to break down. You can actually see the fibers braking apart. ( some of you call this pitting )
While this is also a normal wear with a ceramic rotor over time it is also sped up with this super heating and super cooling. And not managing the brakes under track conditions.
For a ceramic rotor to operate properly a specific temperature must be maintained..

Lastly many people think that ceramics are indestructable for some reason.

They are designed to wear and be replaced just like any other steel rotor. They will last much longer than any other steel rotor under EXTREME conditions. ( SEE F1 and LMP cars for example) and yes these teams also replace them often.

A rotor is a serviceable wear item, even if its ceramic, it just depends on the use.

You also need to consider the brake pad material you are using with the ceramic rotor.
The factory equipped pads that come on PCCB rotors are not for racing purposes and a proper ceramic racing compound must be used under track conditions. Also the bedding of the pads is very important and if not done properly it will eat into the rotor very quickly.

.

Someone also stated that the "Cup Cars" use steel rotors . That is only partially true - The cup cars use steel rotors in the U.S. series, but in European series and other series throughout the world ceramic equipped cars are run and run with great success.

I wish we could use "ceramic" rotors in our series..


So consider these "facts" before you make a decision on ceramic rotors. They are in fact superior to any steel rotor on the market. Especially under racing conditions.


We have over 10k track miles on our GT2 with first generation PCCB's on the car and NO problems with the rotors.

 

To add to Fabryce's post:

Porsche tested the hell out of even the Gen I rotors prior to putting them on customer cars. They made two big mistakes:

First, they initially marketed the rotors as lasting "the life of the car" or 100,000 miles... Not true in track usage, obviously, but they failed to mention that.

Second, their test drivers were too good. They never went off sideways into a gravel trap (a major initiator of pitting when the gravel hits the rotors). They also put less heat into the brakes, less abruptly, than amateur drivers, because they don't over brake. Thus it was found that amateur drivers actually got the peak surface temp of the brakes slightly hotter than the pros with a cooler core, and this dramatically increased failure rates. Hence why some drivers have no issues with even gen 1 PCCBs, while others eat them alive in track use.

They won't last forever and care needs to be taken in their use, but with those caveats they are great pieces. I out them on my car.

 

Excellent info--thanks guys!

 

I've got PCCBs on my 997 GT3, track it often, no problems. They're great.