GTR v-Spec laps ring faster than CGT
#62
04-12-2008, 08:17 AM
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
#63
04-12-2008, 09:44 AM
BTW, it's pretty darn amazing how fast the CGT and new GT2 do the Ring with just 2WD. That's mainly because of their light weight, great driver, stiff chassis, tires and other suspension improvements. Add a Nissan-like AWD to these cars and you'll likely see a 10-second or more improvement in the times, with even ordinary drivers!
In the future, smart suspensions will improve the times even more.
In the future, smart suspensions will improve the times even more.
#64
04-12-2008, 09:45 AM
Because Porsche doesn't have the technology to do AWD properly in a sports car - the Porsche AWD actually slows the car down on the track compared to 2WD (that's why the CGT doesn't have it either).
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
THE NISSAN IS NOT AS FAST AS THESE internet websites are claiming. All of these claims are based on nissan nutswinger observers giving their predicted, or "observed" times. None of these are offical timed laps.
#65
04-12-2008, 10:55 AM
And you should buy a GT2. Then you might understand.
Trust me, no matter how fast that rice rocket is, I would never trade a GT2 for it.
Especially some fixed up Altima that needs GPS and remote electronic programming to match Porsche's times. That's Nissan for you.
Walter Rohrl is like the Gary Kasparov of driving I guess. Eventually there will be a Big Blue by IBM driving cars around the Ring. Or in this case, a Sony Playstation 4...
Trust me, no matter how fast that rice rocket is, I would never trade a GT2 for it.
Especially some fixed up Altima that needs GPS and remote electronic programming to match Porsche's times. That's Nissan for you.Walter Rohrl is like the Gary Kasparov of driving I guess. Eventually there will be a Big Blue by IBM driving cars around the Ring. Or in this case, a Sony Playstation 4...
Don't get me wrong bro, like everybody here I am also a die hard P fan, but been a die hard P fan doesn't mean we should put down other cars, especially the GTR is really not bad at all. At least for daily drive
Nother personal, just a peaceful chat
#66
04-12-2008, 10:58 AM
I've been on the other forums as I now have sold the 6 GT3 and now thinking of selling the Challenge Stradale and get a Dodge and a Nissan. I can't believe I'm saying this, but getting rid of one of the best modern Ferraris for a Dodge SRT-10 ACR coupe and a GTR Spec V. Now, just in case Porsche comes out w/ a direct injected (read more HP) GT3 RS, PDK and when I can get one at MSRP, then I may come back to the P car camp, if not, I'm going to the other side.
#67
04-12-2008, 11:14 AM
Because Porsche doesn't have the technology to do AWD properly in a sports car - the Porsche AWD actually slows the car down on the track compared to 2WD (that's why the CGT doesn't have it either).
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
AWD can certainly have its advantages, however, it does add weight and in some cases cause reliability issues under racing conditions due to overheating of the diff, etc. Normally, I would say that the RWD cars also have advantage of being able to drift in tight corners, but Nissan solved this problem by letting the car have some slip angle before the AWD kicks in.
The system employed in the 993 is a much simpler electro-mechanical viscous coupling system, which pretty much carried over to the 996, and it seems the 997. They simplified this AWD because it proved to be much more reliable than the ultra complex system of the 964, let alone the 959.
Under dry conditions, I'm not sure that AWD is such a necessity in the age of advanced aerodynamics, suspension technology, etc. F1 cars are pretty fast, for example, and until this year when they banned traction control, had plenty of traction and grip under throttle. Yes, the 959 is a fast car, but it's nowhere near as fast as even a 996 GT2 on the track. Of course, technology in other areas has advanced quite a bit since 1987, but I'm trying to illustrate a point.
I don't think Porsche will ever go to an all AWD lineup for some of the reasons already mentioned like homologation purposes, likeness to racing models, and frankly, the "feel" of the car and maintaining low weight. And I hope they do continue to offer people a choice.
I haven't driven a GTR yet, but I will one of these days and I suspect I will still prefer a GT2 or GT3.
#68
04-12-2008, 11:34 AM
Because Porsche doesn't have the technology to do AWD properly in a sports car - the Porsche AWD actually slows the car down on the track compared to 2WD (that's why the CGT doesn't have it either).
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
Nissan knows how to do AWD perfectly for the road and track. They spent a lot of money determining the best way to do AWD, and then built an electronically-controlled AWD unit that a computer can control to actually duplicate what AWD should be, as determined from computer simulations and other mathematical analysis.
When Porsche catches up, you'll likely see AWD in all of their cars. Until then, 2WD will be in their highest performance cars!
When done properly, AWD can be more fun that 2WD because you can still drift the car. It's just that the proper AWD car will feel much more stable and planted than a 2WD car or an improper AWD car (like the Porsche turbos). Try a GT-R and you'll see what I mean.
BTW, when Porsche does decide to do AWD properly, they'll blow everyone away because their cars tend to be lighter than others.
I guess the cup cars will be AWD too then.
OMG!
#69
04-12-2008, 11:44 AM
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A PROTOTYPE gets a 'Ring time? Everyone knows prototypes are programmed differently from production versions as manufacturers test the car's operation under different stressors. 'Ring times for a prototype. Hmmm. Can you say MEANINGLESS?
#71
04-12-2008, 12:03 PM
I'd love to drive a GT-R and would definitely consider one if I liked it..Badges aside..A good comparison might be a Jeep SRT-8 to a Cayenne Turbo..less than 1/2 the price and faster..in fact embarrassingly faster than a Cayenne S..I've driven SRT-8's a few times and really like them..But they are apples and oranges to the better handling and built Cayenne (and I am an unhappy Cayenne owner or would have bought a CTT).
As far as 'status' the SRT-8 get's more respect around my area than a Cayenne, which is more closely associated with well to do Soccer Mom's..
Great post:
Originally Posted by Hamann7
And you should buy a GT2. Then you might understand.
Trust me, no matter how fast that rice rocket is, I would never trade a GT2 for it. Especially some fixed up Altima that needs GPS and remote electronic programming to match Porsche's times. That's Nissan for you.
Walter Rohrl is like the Gary Kasparov of driving I guess. Eventually there will be a Big Blue by IBM driving cars around the Ring. Or in this case, a Sony Playstation 4...
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As far as 'status' the SRT-8 get's more respect around my area than a Cayenne, which is more closely associated with well to do Soccer Mom's..
Great post:
Originally Posted by Hamann7
And you should buy a GT2. Then you might understand.
Trust me, no matter how fast that rice rocket is, I would never trade a GT2 for it.
Especially some fixed up Altima that needs GPS and remote electronic programming to match Porsche's times. That's Nissan for you.Walter Rohrl is like the Gary Kasparov of driving I guess. Eventually there will be a Big Blue by IBM driving cars around the Ring. Or in this case, a Sony Playstation 4...
----------
#72
04-12-2008, 12:16 PM
i dont agree with the jeep vs cayenne comparison. suv's are used like sedans where things like interior feel, materials, quality etc are very important. performance to a much lesser degree so not unexpected many people would pay extra for a cayenne over a jeep.
these things are much less important in sports cars so if a gtr is faster than tt, thats a huge advantage for the nissan
these things are much less important in sports cars so if a gtr is faster than tt, thats a huge advantage for the nissan
Last edited by fcar348; 04-12-2008 at 12:21 PM.
#73
04-12-2008, 12:23 PM
i dont agree with the jeep vs cayenne comparison. suv's are used like sedans where things like interior feel, materials, quality etc are very important. performance to a much lesser degree so many people would prefer cayene to jeep.
these are much less important in sports cars so if a gtr is faster than tt, thats aa huge advantage
these are much less important in sports cars so if a gtr is faster than tt, thats aa huge advantage
#74
04-12-2008, 12:25 PM
also, no one had anything to say about my question about the veyron so again -
what would its ring time be since it has awd and dual clutch trans to go with twice the hp as the gtr? why do drivers complain about its excess weight as being a problem for its handling, yet no one complains about the gtr's handling?
what would its ring time be since it has awd and dual clutch trans to go with twice the hp as the gtr? why do drivers complain about its excess weight as being a problem for its handling, yet no one complains about the gtr's handling?
