New Road & Track comparison test: GT2 vs ACR vs LP560-4...
#16
07-24-2008 | 01:16 AM
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Wait how is it inconsistent. this was a very well organized test. sure the Dodge came with a team but test itself let pro drivers (in their respective segment) pilot 10 cars and then ranked them based on lap times. It was also done in correct time attack format. as far as the Big willow times they are some of the fastest seen for stock cars. you can get a good idea of what HPDE cars are running by looking at the average spread/time on the speed ventures website.
http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx
(click event results and then take your pick of the Willow springs race events.)
I mean really if cars on R comps are barely hitting the time puled by Millen on stock tired cars, something can be said about the mans driving ability. you know i hear a lot of complaining and moaning from the Porsche guys. does it really sting that much that there are cars faster then the respective porches in a comparison. I think the burn is mostly coming from the GTR and the ACR. if we were to take those 2 cars out of this comparison everyone here would be hailing as to how great the P car did.
Hammad
http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx
(click event results and then take your pick of the Willow springs race events.)
I mean really if cars on R comps are barely hitting the time puled by Millen on stock tired cars, something can be said about the mans driving ability. you know i hear a lot of complaining and moaning from the Porsche guys. does it really sting that much that there are cars faster then the respective porches in a comparison. I think the burn is mostly coming from the GTR and the ACR. if we were to take those 2 cars out of this comparison everyone here would be hailing as to how great the P car did.
Hammad
SpeedVentures is a group of track day enthusiasts, not pro drivers. Why don't you find one of Cort Wagner's or Craig Stanton's times and then you can see where the disparity lies.
Either way, it seems that the GT2 is still faster than the GT-R. So I don't really care. And even if it weren't, you still won't see me rushing out to trade in and buy 3 of them.
As for the ACR, it's fast, but then again, if I want something that close to a racecar, I'll buy a GT3 Cup S, thanks. Or just make some proper ADJUSTMENTS on my GT2 suspension with my own pit crew.
#17
07-24-2008 | 01:26 PM
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Uhhh... ACR. GT2. Lambo, and GTR are all running tires derived off of R-compound tires. ACR and GT2 are on Pilot Sport Cups, Lambo is on Corsa system, GTR is on sticky Dunlops.
SpeedVentures is a group of track day enthusiasts, not pro drivers. Why don't you find one of Cort Wagner's or Craig Stanton's times and then you can see where the disparity lies.
Either way, it seems that the GT2 is still faster than the GT-R. So I don't really care. And even if it weren't, you still won't see me rushing out to trade in and buy 3 of them.
As for the ACR, it's fast, but then again, if I want something that close to a racecar, I'll buy a GT3 Cup S, thanks. Or just make some proper ADJUSTMENTS on my GT2 suspension with my own pit crew.
SpeedVentures is a group of track day enthusiasts, not pro drivers. Why don't you find one of Cort Wagner's or Craig Stanton's times and then you can see where the disparity lies.
Either way, it seems that the GT2 is still faster than the GT-R. So I don't really care. And even if it weren't, you still won't see me rushing out to trade in and buy 3 of them.
As for the ACR, it's fast, but then again, if I want something that close to a racecar, I'll buy a GT3 Cup S, thanks. Or just make some proper ADJUSTMENTS on my GT2 suspension with my own pit crew.
Hammad
#20
07-24-2008 | 05:47 PM
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Jeesh I have run with Speed ventures I didnt know I was a pro!!
Also Porsche had no chance losing 21 points in the all important glove box size.
Also Porsche had no chance losing 21 points in the all important glove box size.
Hammad
#22
07-24-2008 | 06:01 PM
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Sakred I was just kidding, although I have run with Speedventures.
No insult to you, just to the mag, as I have posted before. Please accept my
apology if I did. The first time I ever ran with them it was a bunch of young
kids in BRAND new infinitis with burning brakes everywhere, no intermediates(much less talented drivers..although later the talent showed up)
allowed...LOL!
I am just amazed given the stupid categories they have that with a 100 points and
the top 4 all within a point that they dont do something heroic and call it a tie.
Thats way too close given their lack of expertise to call the contest one way or another.
No insult to you, just to the mag, as I have posted before. Please accept my
apology if I did. The first time I ever ran with them it was a bunch of young
kids in BRAND new infinitis with burning brakes everywhere, no intermediates(much less talented drivers..although later the talent showed up)
allowed...LOL!
I am just amazed given the stupid categories they have that with a 100 points and
the top 4 all within a point that they dont do something heroic and call it a tie.
Thats way too close given their lack of expertise to call the contest one way or another.
#23
07-24-2008 | 08:35 PM
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As mentoned earlier, the top 4 cars are within 1% of each other. So, if you blink, you'll lose. On the street, all of the cars are essentially the same. One is not going to really shine over another, unless you're doing a 1-mile straight run or something like that.
Bottom line is you really need to drive the cars to see how you like them. I've driven a GT-R and can easily buy one, but I really like the feel of my GT3 RS much better. Again, on the street, I challenge anyone to show a Viper, GT2 or GT-R to be noticeably faster than a Z06 or even a stock 997 TT. And, if you're a track person looking for the fastest time, just buy a fast track car, like a Radical. That's a different animal.
Bottom line is you really need to drive the cars to see how you like them. I've driven a GT-R and can easily buy one, but I really like the feel of my GT3 RS much better. Again, on the street, I challenge anyone to show a Viper, GT2 or GT-R to be noticeably faster than a Z06 or even a stock 997 TT. And, if you're a track person looking for the fastest time, just buy a fast track car, like a Radical. That's a different animal.
#24
07-24-2008 | 08:54 PM
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Wait how is it inconsistent. this was a very well organized test. sure the Dodge came with a team but test itself let pro drivers (in their respective segment) pilot 10 cars and then ranked them based on lap times. It was also done in correct time attack format. as far as the Big willow times they are some of the fastest seen for stock cars. you can get a good idea of what HPDE cars are running by looking at the average spread/time on the speed ventures website.
http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx
(click event results and then take your pick of the Willow springs race events.)
I mean really if cars on R comps are barely hitting the time puled by Millen on stock tired cars, something can be said about the mans driving ability. you know i hear a lot of complaining and moaning from the Porsche guys. does it really sting that much that there are cars faster then the respective porches in a comparison. I think the burn is mostly coming from the GTR and the ACR. if we were to take those 2 cars out of this comparison everyone here would be hailing as to how great the P car did.
Hammad
http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx
(click event results and then take your pick of the Willow springs race events.)
I mean really if cars on R comps are barely hitting the time puled by Millen on stock tired cars, something can be said about the mans driving ability. you know i hear a lot of complaining and moaning from the Porsche guys. does it really sting that much that there are cars faster then the respective porches in a comparison. I think the burn is mostly coming from the GTR and the ACR. if we were to take those 2 cars out of this comparison everyone here would be hailing as to how great the P car did.
Hammad
they should have just done them all stock, with no changes-that would have been most appropriate.
#25
07-24-2008 | 11:21 PM
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I could care less about the ACR, it's legitimately faster than the GT2, with or without adjustments.
But how does a Z06, which beat the Audi R8 by 6.4 seconds at VIR in a lightning lap also driven by pro drivers, lose to the R8 in every venue? And I dont see any reason the GT2 should beat the ACR anywhere, the DF of the ACR should be even more evident on an oval, ESPECIALLY if it was tuned.
Which makes me think they drive, but the results are predetermined. Far too many inconsistencies in the mag world. A car does not beat another by 6 seconds on one track and then lose to it on 4 seperate other tracks.
And still no explanation why Millen can go much faster than anyone in a GT-R but anything American or with RWD is his cryptonite. There is no explanation for that. NONE!!!!!!!
Oh yeah and the R8 beat the GT2 at Willow Springs. Unless it was raining, that is stupid. A 996 GT2 will beat an R8.
But how does a Z06, which beat the Audi R8 by 6.4 seconds at VIR in a lightning lap also driven by pro drivers, lose to the R8 in every venue? And I dont see any reason the GT2 should beat the ACR anywhere, the DF of the ACR should be even more evident on an oval, ESPECIALLY if it was tuned.
Which makes me think they drive, but the results are predetermined. Far too many inconsistencies in the mag world. A car does not beat another by 6 seconds on one track and then lose to it on 4 seperate other tracks.
And still no explanation why Millen can go much faster than anyone in a GT-R but anything American or with RWD is his cryptonite. There is no explanation for that. NONE!!!!!!!
Oh yeah and the R8 beat the GT2 at Willow Springs. Unless it was raining, that is stupid. A 996 GT2 will beat an R8.
Last edited by heavychevy; 07-24-2008 at 11:25 PM.
#26
07-25-2008 | 01:58 AM
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And it's worth every penny more than a GT3.
Garrett, don't be jealous cause you couldn't get one!
Don't worry though, I'll throw you the keys and you can take it for a spin. Worlds apart from a Turbo.
Last edited by Hamann7; 07-25-2008 at 02:04 AM.
#27
07-25-2008 | 02:03 AM
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I could care less about the ACR, it's legitimately faster than the GT2, with or without adjustments.
But how does a Z06, which beat the Audi R8 by 6.4 seconds at VIR in a lightning lap also driven by pro drivers, lose to the R8 in every venue? And I dont see any reason the GT2 should beat the ACR anywhere, the DF of the ACR should be even more evident on an oval, ESPECIALLY if it was tuned.
But how does a Z06, which beat the Audi R8 by 6.4 seconds at VIR in a lightning lap also driven by pro drivers, lose to the R8 in every venue? And I dont see any reason the GT2 should beat the ACR anywhere, the DF of the ACR should be even more evident on an oval, ESPECIALLY if it was tuned.
ACR should be marginally faster than GT2 because of its power and fully adjustable suspension (KW v3). Try putting KW v3 on GT2 and see what happens then. Remember the EDO car which did the Ring in 7:15? But who cares anyway? I would never trade the GT2 for an ACR or a GT-R. And you can always make anything go faster...
#29
07-26-2008 | 10:14 AM
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Yes but all that massive downforce slows you down at high oval speeds, particularly if the car isn't geared for it.
ACR should be marginally faster than GT2 because of its power and fully adjustable suspension (KW v3). Try putting KW v3 on GT2 and see what happens then. Remember the EDO car which did the Ring in 7:15? But who cares anyway? I would never trade the GT2 for an ACR or a GT-R. And you can always make anything go faster...
ACR should be marginally faster than GT2 because of its power and fully adjustable suspension (KW v3). Try putting KW v3 on GT2 and see what happens then. Remember the EDO car which did the Ring in 7:15? But who cares anyway? I would never trade the GT2 for an ACR or a GT-R. And you can always make anything go faster...
The ACR is faster for more reasons than just it's coilovers. Were there no DF, there is no question for me that the GT2 would be faster, but when you enable cars like the Vette and Viper to put power down easily, it's curtains for everyone else, unless you have as much power and as much DF
#30
07-26-2008 | 12:20 PM
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I have a little insight into the GT2 that was tested. I did an SCCA Divisional autocross at El Toro last weekend and I ran against Gary Thomason in his GT3. He did a lot of the driving and owning and autocrossing a GT3 of his own, he is familiar with P cars. I consider him to be one of the best autocrossers in the country.
He said that he was disappointed in the GT2. Said that it understeered and was laggy. He did say that when the boost did come on, it was strong. He said that he looked under the car and the eccentrics had not been touched and suspected that it had a poor alignment. In contrast he recently tested an RS and said it was incredible. Looking under the RS he said he could see that the eccentrics had been adjusted.
IMO Porsche could have done a better job on supplying a "proper" car for the comparison. What they seemed to supply was a press car that understeered so the bone head press guys would not crash the car.
He said that he was disappointed in the GT2. Said that it understeered and was laggy. He did say that when the boost did come on, it was strong. He said that he looked under the car and the eccentrics had not been touched and suspected that it had a poor alignment. In contrast he recently tested an RS and said it was incredible. Looking under the RS he said he could see that the eccentrics had been adjusted.
IMO Porsche could have done a better job on supplying a "proper" car for the comparison. What they seemed to supply was a press car that understeered so the bone head press guys would not crash the car.