Nobody said they were and if you look at my post I literally say they aren't the end all be all. EVERYONE knows that people don't buy a car based SOLELY on it's ring time.

I agree, some companies put more effort on achieving a fast ring time. 2-3 seconds means little to nothing on a track like the ring and I never argued that point. However a fast ring time does spark interest. A Nissan that outperforms a p-car around the ring is obviously an appealing concept. It makes it easier for the consumer looking for an affordable track car that performs.

What's the gt9's ring time? fast and "slow" version

 

I agree that the ring is a powerful selling tool, and I absolutely beleive Porsche will respond. Many thought Porsche would not repsond to getting beat last year in ALMS, even many teams left thinking the Ferrari's had it made. Then what happened, the RSR's came back full force with new renditions that made the car the one to beat again.

My only problem is where do you draw the line? Testing for a fastest lap for one full year or more and having 4 and 5 different drivers is overkill IMO. Just get out there take a couple of weeks and run what ya brung. This isnt F1, it doesnt take a year to set a car up. Nissan is putting millions into a ring time certainly no american cars will have as much time to be able to spend, so how can you draw a direct comparison??? That's like comparing a guy who races PCA vs Flying Lizards. No accurate or realistic comparison can be made.

 

Well it appears GM invested heavily into tuning their cars on the Nurburgring as well. Look at how much testing they've done on both the Z06 and ZR-1. Not to mention the Cadillac CTS and CTS-V. It was a wise move on their part.

Still doesn't make me want to buy a Corvette, nonetheless, they have come a long way from the pieces of junk they once were.

 

GM's largest investment was probably sending a car and a few engineers to europe for a few weeks. That's not a heavy investment in the total scheme of things. They went and put in a good effort. Didnt even hire a pro driver.

So in the grand scheme of things, that's no real heavy investment comparatively. Not as low budget as sending someone over there for one day like SRT/VCA did, but still, no where near a heavy investment.

Same with the CTS-V, GM saw the attention the ring time garnered for the Z06 when it came out and they went to show they could beat the Audi's and BMW's 4 doors of the world. Didnt hire a pro for that either, just guys that work in house. Granted John Heinriecy is avery good driver, they arent having the factory test guys developing the cars on the ring for months on end like Porsche and years like Nissan.

 

Sources? This sounds like speculation. Can you also post the funding that was spent by Porsche in this same arena?

ALL of Ford and GM's profitability came from truck and suv sales which have fallin off the deep end since the fuel crisis. I'd venture a guess, from a big picture stand point, they are not concerned with pumping funding into a fast ring time. Their monthly losses are pretty encredible.

I'm really curious where you guys get this information. If this actually was the case it would be a horrible move on their part to invest any extra money into a choking market.

 

If you spend a year at the ring, engineers, 4-5 drivers, BUILDING A NEW FACILITY THERE (which likely cost millions on it's own), do you think it can be done for pennies????


All it takes is a little common sense. Nissan has the most money to waist at the ring. They didnt even set a budget for the design and build stages of the car (per a certified GTR tech).

Now dont just argue for the sake of it, at least use some common sense. Porsche has had a facility at the ring for several years because they test all their cars there. Nissan built this one specifically for the GT-R, but could very well use it for other cars in the future.

 

Chevy had the new Z06 and the Blue Devil there testing in the last couple years. The market has only gone south in the last 6-8 months. A year ago you couldnt buy a GT3RS for less than 180K. You were lucky to find a GT3 at the dealer that hadnt been flipped at least once. Thats not now but not that long ago either.

 

You guys know that GM has a facility near the Ring, right?

Greg A

 

Heavychevy, last time I checked Jan Magnussen, who set the Z06 ring time is an ALMS driver. I think that would make him a pro driver?

 

Your using the fact that Nissan is spending more money to test their vehicles on the ring as a tool to wedge a belief that Porsche has lack of effort invested in it's time which is not the case. It's common sense that it's going to cost more money to test a vehicle on the opposite side of the globe from where it's manufactured. It's common sense as well that if Porsche could knock the gt-r off it's pedestal they would have done so.

It's also speculation that Nissan has the most money to "waist" at the ring therefor they actually will. I think that's completely false. They put the money into building a faster car and used the Nurburgring, the opponents home field, a HUGE disadvantage to show the true performance factors and that is common sense. I think the truth of it is you guys are butthurt about it and will use anything to discredit their achievement.

 

I think your missing my point. This market was never FORD/GM's main money making devision from the beginning. It's common sense they would not invest exuberant amounts of money in it and the Porsche market is a different market all together. You have 2 completely different demographics. The fast 4-door sedan market has fallen off the deep end. A little foresight, which gm/ford have complete devisions dedicated to researching this, could have seen the coming trend years ago.

Until someone can actually post segmented devision spending reports it is SPECULATION.

 

I didnt clarify, I meant for the last two cars (ZR-1, CTS-V) they didnt hire a pro for them and still set records with them.

 

Where did I say there was a lack of effort??? You are putting words in my mouth. IMO Porsches effort is ok, but they should in fact rent out the track instead of setting their fast laps while passing several cars on track. So in that respect they are lacking in effort. But Porsche has obviously never taken it so seriously, they rented out the track once, and that was for the CGT. Now in what world do you get the impression that they have the same level of intensity we've been seeing here lately??? You dont have a foot to stand on.

And where is it a garaunteed that Porsche would want to go back to the ring and rent the track out just to beat the GT-R? How is that common sense? Porsche hasnt returned to the ring in that capacity since the GT-R's times have been announced, so you are using purely conjecture and a misguided one at that.

Have you not read the part about the design and build stages of this car not being budgeted but on an open checkbook? Obviously Nissan does have money to waist, and they have obviously put more into getting a fast time than anyone else. I dont have to see spending reports to see that and you are just in denial if you think otherwise.

Lets have a show of hands to see who thinks if Nissan put the same effort into testing the Z06, GT2, TT, GT3 that they wouldnt be quite a bit faster than their recorded times? 4 and 5 factory test drivers? That's overkill and in and of itself shows that Nissan put more into the ring testing than anyone else. Not even counting the other factors (a year of qualifying laps).

Based on the information we have, there is no question whatsoever that Nissan put more into the ring testing:

Z06 - two weeks set up by engineers + 4 laps by Jan Magnussen from a standing start.

ACR- One day, 4 hours, Pro Driver, a few laps

ZR-1- A few weeks (maybe a couple months cant remember), engineer drives car, not pro driver.

GT2 - standard Porsche testing during manufacturer lapping days at the ring, passing 11 or so cars during the fast lap. One driver.

GT3- same as GT2 but only passing 5 or 6 cars. One driver.

GT-R- One year testing for fast lap, special facility built, 4-5 factory test drivers, 3 cars lapping at once, hundreds of laps, continued testing for months even after release of the car.


It's obvious to anyone who isnt trying to see otherwise.

 

Call my conclusions misguided but your post is the only "data" we have to go off of. Now for the third time, please list your sources. Didn't you also say porsche has a facility at the ring? Someone else posted that GM also has a nurburgring facility. Where did you get this that they tested for a full year. All the reports I've read post they've tested the car two days at the ring. It's pretty obvious what your implications are on the ammount of effort that has been put into track testing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pull that out of your posts...

 

So you are actually going to try and say Nissan only tested for two days???? You obviously havent been paying attention. Even your fanboy buddies can clarify that one. They had been there since spring of last year until the announcement of 7:29 in spring this year. You havent been reading much.

You are obviously just arguing for the sake of it like I said. Go do some homework, then come back, there is nothing more that needs to be said. For most of us we can take common sense and combine it with the information we have and draw a good conclusion. I've put up lots of information which you have yet to counter, allow people to decipher for themselves. I wont be able to provide you with Nissan Porsche and GM bank statements since that's the only thing you'll accept to beleive what you are refusing to at the moment.

good day.