Yep we all use too much thinking which is the fastest street tire on a street car for track...Racing cars are for that But this is fun also...!

It depends on so many things that in most cases there is not a single truth. What matters the most is the driver is happy with his situation...

What I forgot to mention it was my individual opinion that I feel in most cars MPSC's are a tad bit faster than R888's (M3's and 996's).

Martin seems to be an experienced track guy and I'm sure he has a different thing with his monster GT2. I feel the Toyos are overally a bit more understeering (or "a bit more balanced") tire combination than the Cups. And with monster RWD power that might be just what is needed for max performance when going fast

One thing to mention is that to maximize grip, people should use quite low tire pressures. Even a bit lower ones than those numbers that are often mentioned in the forums. And yeah, heat cycles are a *****...

Btw. My first driving session ever with the Cups was not a great one, it was with a strange car on Nordschleife...Even though a set of laps I somehow did not trust to the behaviour of the tires...

 

They are the OEM Cups, that's all that was available when I needed them a while back... I have 18-20 HC's on them and I like to think I am driving them hard.... As far as alignment, if I do a track alignment, how will it drive on the street? Am I gonna kill my street tires?

 

Thanks man, well for the most part I agree with what you are saying, especially the last part! My first impressions with a set were a pretty bad one.

Here is how I see it. The R888's in a turbo or a heavier especially AWD car I can confidently say, I would probably HATE. But they are just fantastic on my car being rwd/very light and with motons dialed in so well, I have no push or understeer from them (pressures and camber sorted that out) but they do have a softer sidewall, overall it's definitely a new learning experience on these tires as far as comfort and feel , the steering response ISNT AS GREAT as the pilot cups, but IMO, at the limit grip and adhesive 10x more comforting to get those extra limits out of your car!

Pilot cups were fantastic steering response wise, but the sidewalls were a little too stiff and I felt lost traction very fast. The R888's would make the car feel as if it had body roll which isn't apparent on street tires or in the car at all, so it was a weird feeling to get use to especially with lower pressures, but no matter what the body felt like it was doing, the grip was endless and just immense, they just work so well with my car and setup.

Only thing I did not like about the R888's, was how greasy they are at full tread and new, very scary, and once you get very fast with these tires they start to push once cooked!!!

I like RA1's better as they were more consistent all around over the R888's, but the absolute limits of the R888's are greater.

Traction on the street is unbelievable, but they are loud!

 

Ah, that explains a lot. As far as killing your tires with a track alignment it all depends on what tires you run and what alignment you run. Tires with stiffer side walls dont need as much neg camber and thus wont wear as quickly, Cups wear quicker than R888's, R888's wear quicker than RA1's and the A048's last forever, etc... Each tire has its own disadvantages and advantages. Ask Mooty, he knows about all of them. Also a lot of it has to do with how much you track, how much track experience you have, etc...

If you want to run R-Comps, IMO you need at least 2.5 neg camber front and 2.2 rear, or vice versa depending on your set up.

Remember accelerated wear is just part of track life. If want the most track time for the least amount of money, get a good set of street tires, (PS2's or AD07's, etc) and have a shop set up your car with a semi aggressive track alignment. With street tires you really dont need anything over 2 degrees of neg. camber which will help. Good luck!

 

isnt R6 good for tracks and A6 hoo hoos good for Autocross?

 

Yes, that is correct

 

They are also used for time trials or qualifying as they're sticky right off the bat.

 

I tried the MPSC and then moved to pirelli track Corsa, i love them but they need some time to warm up, the are good for track days but not for timed sprints nor autocross, im currently looking into hoosiers or pirelli slicks for autocross and timed sprints, and either continue with track corsa for track days or switch to R888s

 

Guys,

A few things I think are worth throwing in here.

If you run MPSC in an 18, it's a different animal than with 19, as the sidewall is larger and improves feel. I like it a lot.

I don't think that MPSC is death in the rain. I run these for my street tires, which leads to the next point...

I can't believe you guys are talking Hoosiers and not Dunlops or Michelin slicks. I run the Dunlops and they kick so much ***. I can't explain. I mean, all the grip and feel you could ever imagine. MUST have an 18 inch wheel though.

Oh, and how have we not addressed the issue of nitrogen here? He's getting slick because he's getting hot and pressures are going up OR he's getting slick because the tires are gone. That's it. These tires are good tires. So, the tires look GOOD to me. Nobody commented on his pics of the treads. If I walked into the garage and saw that, I'd smile and feel like they were still new. I wear out MPSCs on the track (before going to Dunlop slicks) in two days, which is more like 8-10 heat cycles. I get a ton more HCs out of the slicks too. BUT, I haul the car to the track. Back to my point: There's only two things making him slide around. I can't see that it's the tires being wasted by his pics. So, either he's getting his pressures too high, or his setup sucks (not meant in a hateful way, but you might need some camber, brother).

I haven't tried R888s. I want to. The tread even looks cool. But MPSCs rock in my book. I have them on 18s and 19s, and there's a difference for sure.

 

So you are saying that based on the pictures that my tires have a couple more track days left on them, maybe 8-10 more HCs? That's what I wanted someone to tell me... I realize that you can't tell exactly how they are from the pictures but you can get an idea...

My problem is definitely not with the pressure to high, in fact earlier in this thread I said that I ran my tires 28-30 front and 30-32 rear and they said to go higher, around 32-33 front and 34-35 rear.... And I probably do need a track alignment on the thing, which I'm going to get done after this weekend.

 

Right. Sorry. Too low would do that too for sure. I can't tell in your pics, but you SHOULD be able to see where you've actually driven on the sidewall if you're running low. I ran low for two sessions and literally was scrubbing off the words on the side of the tire. They were almost gone from the sidewall rolling.

 

A good alignment will make a world of difference.

 

Based on the pics that you posted... those tires still have lots of life left...in fact I think they look pretty good.
as to how many heat cycles are left -- too many variables to determine (driving style, track, temps, inflation, etc) -- I got 15-20 HC out of mine.
Pressure for MPSC -- 36 rear/32 front HOT according to the Michelin care and feeding PDF (see attached)... at the pressures you are running I would keep an eye on the sidewalls...
Driving to the track -- fine on these tires
Driving in the rain -- fine, but be careful and stay away from standing water

These are MPSC in rain on the track:



Really you have to try out a bunch of tires and find what you like the best... I just switched to Toyo R888 and they are pretty good... although I still think I like MPSC better...

I would stay away from slicks if you are driving to the track and it is more than an hour away etc.. I was told that the R6 is very puncture prone (TR told me) and for me the risk is not worth it... driving to the track on my slicks and get a flat... day is screwed, lose track fees, etc...

Short answer -- your tires look good... raise your pressures and enjoy.. you have at least 4-8 HC left in my opinion.

MPSC care and feeding pdf is below

 

it's a shame that Dunlop doesn't offer their Star Spec Direzza's (Sport Z1) in Porsche sizes.....I've been using them on track and they offer the grip of R-comps but with useability and tire wear for the street. Seriously the best all around combination of tire I've ever tried. I honestly don't know how they got this rated as something besides an R-compound.

the tire heat's up much quicker than MPSC, offers virtually identical grip to an RA1...probably just a tad under the R888. And ridiculously cheap compared to the others.

If you guys use anything on track that can utilize the tire sizes the Star Specs offer, I highly recommend them.

 

Also, for those who like Toyo R888's or RA1.....Nitto NT01's are basically the exact same compound but with a different tread pattern. Nitto is owned by Toyo, and they sell the Nitto's NT01's much cheaper than the R888 in the same sizes since it's not known as the "Speed Challenge" official tire.

There are tons of BMW guys running these who have figure this little secret out.

They are also non-directional and cost anywhere from $50-$100 less per tire compared to MPSC and R888's...but offer identical performance.

Discount tire seems to have the best prices.