Stradales?
#46
Originally posted by watt
i need some ideas on replacement cars for the CS; i can't think of anything any suggestions?
-- maybe i should just do some R&R [Rice & Rap] mod.s like Jack's CS and live with it
i need some ideas on replacement cars for the CS; i can't think of anything any suggestions?
-- maybe i should just do some R&R [Rice & Rap] mod.s like Jack's CS and live with it
#49
Originally posted by tdf360
Which then gets its *** handed to it by a chipped and race-prepped Supra on sticky tires. There's always something faster out there.
Hm. Is this from personal experience? I know several owners of F40s (no F50s but I bet they are similar) and the reliability is very good, considering we're talking supercar. Piece of ****? Somehow I doubt it. I've been very impressed with my 360 in all respects, and I've heard good things so far on the CS.
Gary
Which then gets its *** handed to it by a chipped and race-prepped Supra on sticky tires. There's always something faster out there.
Hm. Is this from personal experience? I know several owners of F40s (no F50s but I bet they are similar) and the reliability is very good, considering we're talking supercar. Piece of ****? Somehow I doubt it. I've been very impressed with my 360 in all respects, and I've heard good things so far on the CS.
Gary
More to the point, a 360 CS for the same base price as a GT2 is several seconds slower on the Nurburgring and almost any track, despite the fact that the CS has stickier PZero Corsa system as opposed to the Michelin Pilot Sport 1.
There may be faster cars in one category, but for braking, acceleration, handling and overall performance, I think the GT2 is one of the best performing cars this side of a Carrera GT.
The F50 conclusion is based on a client and friend who has one, and the numerous complaints from his mechanic. In the 1 hour that I was there watching him fix the F50, about 2 new problems occurred. Good considering it's a supercar??? WTF does that mean?
I'm glad you are happy with the 360. It is a big improvement over the 355, which was one of my favorite cars. That being said, it is still pretty slow, being only marginally faster than my BMW M5 on a good day. I hope you like the look of my smoked taillights as that is the most common view of the GT2 from the perspective of the 360 driver.
#50
Originally posted by watt
i need some ideas on replacement cars for the CS; i can't think of anything any suggestions?
i need some ideas on replacement cars for the CS; i can't think of anything any suggestions?
I still can't believe you of all people actually bought one of those after your first GT2. Wasn't it also a convertible??? All it needed was those gold Daytons and you would have been set.
#51
Originally posted by Hamann7
Regarding your first point, is this why a stock GT2 runs the 'Ring faster than the Blitz Supra with over 600hp??? When was the last time you saw a race-prepped Supra race a GT2? Are you talking straightline or overall performance?
More to the point, a 360 CS for the same base price as a GT2 is several seconds slower on the Nurburgring and almost any track, despite the fact that the CS has stickier PZero Corsa system as opposed to the Michelin Pilot Sport 1.
There may be faster cars in one category, but for braking, acceleration, handling and overall performance, I think the GT2 is one of the best performing cars this side of a Carrera GT.
The F50 conclusion is based on a client and friend who has one, and the numerous complaints from his mechanic. In the 1 hour that I was there watching him fix the F50, about 2 new problems occurred. Good considering it's a supercar??? WTF does that mean?
I'm glad you are happy with the 360. It is a big improvement over the 355, which was one of my favorite cars. That being said, it is still pretty slow, being only marginally faster than my BMW M5 on a good day. I hope you like the look of my smoked taillights as that is the most common view of the GT2 from the perspective of the 360 driver.
Regarding your first point, is this why a stock GT2 runs the 'Ring faster than the Blitz Supra with over 600hp??? When was the last time you saw a race-prepped Supra race a GT2? Are you talking straightline or overall performance?
More to the point, a 360 CS for the same base price as a GT2 is several seconds slower on the Nurburgring and almost any track, despite the fact that the CS has stickier PZero Corsa system as opposed to the Michelin Pilot Sport 1.
There may be faster cars in one category, but for braking, acceleration, handling and overall performance, I think the GT2 is one of the best performing cars this side of a Carrera GT.
The F50 conclusion is based on a client and friend who has one, and the numerous complaints from his mechanic. In the 1 hour that I was there watching him fix the F50, about 2 new problems occurred. Good considering it's a supercar??? WTF does that mean?
I'm glad you are happy with the 360. It is a big improvement over the 355, which was one of my favorite cars. That being said, it is still pretty slow, being only marginally faster than my BMW M5 on a good day. I hope you like the look of my smoked taillights as that is the most common view of the GT2 from the perspective of the 360 driver.
Gary
#52
Hey, if anyone has fallen for Tyson's sales pitch re: the GT2, there's a 2002 w/3k miles "asking" $134k. BTW, what does a used Stradale go for - relative to MSRP or otherwise?
I think the resale market for both cars clearly shows that the GT2 may be impressive in "numbers", but the Stradale is what people really want when they seek excitement.
I think the resale market for both cars clearly shows that the GT2 may be impressive in "numbers", but the Stradale is what people really want when they seek excitement.
#53
My dealership head says they rarely get used GT2s for resale because their owners turn ashen and leave when given the current " trade in " value of their car . He says PCNA's whole pricing structure for new GT2s is a joke - they should be base $150K new at the most .
Last edited by MKW; 09-23-2004 at 06:34 AM.
#54
He says PCNA's whole pricing structure for new GT2s is a joke - they should be base $150K new at the most .
porsche's greed has gotten them to do a number of things over the last five years or so that they hopefully will come to regret and learn from.
I think the resale market for both cars clearly shows that the GT2 may be impressive in "numbers", but the Stradale is what people really want when they seek excitement.
doody.
#55
All Ferraris hold their value better due to their superior marketing strategy and "bling" factor.
That has nothing to do with how good the cars are. Many people I know get out of their GT2's because the cars scare the **** out of them. This is why the resale values are low right now.
But that's ok, when the real enthusiasts pick up the car and realize how great they are, prices will stabilize and perhaps even increase one day.
If not, so what... it's one of the best buy secrets of the decade!
You guys who rag on the GT2 obviously have not had much seat time in one. I used to think the GT2 was way overpriced until I drove one. Then I realized how superior it is to the Turbo.
Ben based on your assessment of the CGT, the Stradale is perfect for you.
I don't see how you guys can necessarily single out the GT2 as being overpriced. You actually think the 996 Turbo is a good value??? Especially with X-50? The GT3 is a damn bargain... but a GT2 is certainly worth more than $150K if that's what an X-50 Turbo retails for.
Let's face it, all Porsches are massively overpriced, but so are Ferraris. If you use overall performance as an indicator, the GT2's price isn't that bad. WIth the market the way it is now, it is truly an unbeatable bargain. Just ask Watt.
That has nothing to do with how good the cars are. Many people I know get out of their GT2's because the cars scare the **** out of them. This is why the resale values are low right now.
But that's ok, when the real enthusiasts pick up the car and realize how great they are, prices will stabilize and perhaps even increase one day.
If not, so what... it's one of the best buy secrets of the decade!
You guys who rag on the GT2 obviously have not had much seat time in one. I used to think the GT2 was way overpriced until I drove one. Then I realized how superior it is to the Turbo.
Ben based on your assessment of the CGT, the Stradale is perfect for you.
I don't see how you guys can necessarily single out the GT2 as being overpriced. You actually think the 996 Turbo is a good value??? Especially with X-50? The GT3 is a damn bargain... but a GT2 is certainly worth more than $150K if that's what an X-50 Turbo retails for.
Let's face it, all Porsches are massively overpriced, but so are Ferraris. If you use overall performance as an indicator, the GT2's price isn't that bad. WIth the market the way it is now, it is truly an unbeatable bargain. Just ask Watt.
Last edited by Hamann7; 09-23-2004 at 08:16 AM.
#56
Originally posted by Hamann7
Let's face it, all Porsches are massively overpriced, but so are Ferraris
Let's face it, all Porsches are massively overpriced, but so are Ferraris
#57
Originally posted by Doody
i agree. the GT2s were overpriced for what they were. i think the GT3 is overpriced for what it is. i'm CERTAIN the stradale is overpriced too though!
i agree. the GT2s were overpriced for what they were. i think the GT3 is overpriced for what it is. i'm CERTAIN the stradale is overpriced too though!
#58
Originally posted by Hamann7
Yes, a Ferrari will always be the more visceral experience and it will be exciting too. This has always been the case. Even a normal 360 is more 'exciting' to drive than almost any 911.
But what dampens the experience is getting your *** handed to you by a Porsche.
Like I once said about the F50, it is an amazing experience with the best sounds and feeling... but at the end of the day, it's still a piece of ****. Hopefully CS will hold up better and be more reliable, but only time will tell.
We need to start a betting pool to determine what will be Watt's next car this Christmas!!!
Yes, a Ferrari will always be the more visceral experience and it will be exciting too. This has always been the case. Even a normal 360 is more 'exciting' to drive than almost any 911.
But what dampens the experience is getting your *** handed to you by a Porsche.
Like I once said about the F50, it is an amazing experience with the best sounds and feeling... but at the end of the day, it's still a piece of ****. Hopefully CS will hold up better and be more reliable, but only time will tell.
We need to start a betting pool to determine what will be Watt's next car this Christmas!!!
Big HP numbers don't impress me as much any more. You need light weight and balance - this the CS has.
The GT2 is a great car, but its heavier than a CS - the CS is about 2840 lbs. You can feel the difference. I also track my modded 996TT. The TT has more torque, but it doesn't have the same feel as the CS.
The CS has the sweetest sound! The P-car feels ordinary after driving it. I've owned 5 996s (including 3 turbos) and now a 997S. I love Porsches, and they are better for everyday use, but having a CS for the occasional blast or track day is a lot of fun.
The CS suffers the most, IMO, from lack of traction. The Pirelli PZero Corsa tires are soft, but not particularly sticky in the rear. The width is only 285mm. This has frustrated me when applying throttle while exiting turns. Oversteer is a knife edge away.
As for reliabilty - I have driven mine HARD on the track for hundreds of miles with ZERO problems. I drive it to the track, drive the **** out of it, and then drive home with no issues (other than worn tires).
And one more thing: The F-car is a piece of art. The red-crinkle finish on the engine's intake horn covers, and the carbon-fiber and aluminum pieces are showcased without without any plastic covers. There is so much in this car to show off and admire, like the aluminum body, the carbonfiber door panels and seats, the titanium springs, the HUGE carbon ceramic brakes, all the aero pieces, and the excellent F1 shifter.
If I were to trade the CS for a P-Car, that would have to be a GT3 - it has some of the same traits, such as less weight, and a high-reving NA engine.
#59
This reminds me of a true story. Pablo Picasso was eating alone at a restaurant when a lady comes to his table and gushes over his art. He thanks her warmly and the lady is emboldened, asking him to draw a picture. He very quickly sketches a portrait of a passing waiter on a napkin. She absolutely loves it and asks how much for the sketch. He replies $10,000. The lady is shocked and states that it only took him 5 minutes and he very quietly replies "no ma'am, this took me a lifetime".
Folks, you cannot value these machines like vegetables. There is no way we can justify any of them. We love them for what they can do, their engineering, their HISTORY, and the fact that these are manifestations of both a culture(Italy and Germany) and the passion of their founders(Ferrari and Porsche). It took a generation of engineers, racing, and meticulous craftsmanship for these automakers to be able to charge the premiums that they can get.
Folks, great stuff is expensive and most of the time, if you can afford it, they are worth it. You can go back and forth on how something is "worth" but it is a lot more complicated than that. I think we can all agree a Honda Accord and Toyota Camry is worth the price of entry because they perform transportation duties admirably. How do you value a Ferrari or Porsche? The market does that, but how do we ourselves do it? The things that we value in this realm goes way beyond simple transportation and now involves perfomance, sound, styling, racing heritage, current racing results, ego, net worth, impulse, etc. It just isn't that simple.
My problem, is that I love them all, and at the rate I'm going I will probably own them all at some time or another.
Folks, you cannot value these machines like vegetables. There is no way we can justify any of them. We love them for what they can do, their engineering, their HISTORY, and the fact that these are manifestations of both a culture(Italy and Germany) and the passion of their founders(Ferrari and Porsche). It took a generation of engineers, racing, and meticulous craftsmanship for these automakers to be able to charge the premiums that they can get.
Folks, great stuff is expensive and most of the time, if you can afford it, they are worth it. You can go back and forth on how something is "worth" but it is a lot more complicated than that. I think we can all agree a Honda Accord and Toyota Camry is worth the price of entry because they perform transportation duties admirably. How do you value a Ferrari or Porsche? The market does that, but how do we ourselves do it? The things that we value in this realm goes way beyond simple transportation and now involves perfomance, sound, styling, racing heritage, current racing results, ego, net worth, impulse, etc. It just isn't that simple.
My problem, is that I love them all, and at the rate I'm going I will probably own them all at some time or another.