997.2 GT3 at Geneva
#16
03-04-2009, 08:31 AM
How do we know whether or not the sunroof will be optional or not in the USA? For all we know now they will simply follow the previous formula and reserve sunroof delete for the RS model like the previous iterations. I can't stand the mandatory sunroof, personally so I hope they do away with it.
#17
03-04-2009, 08:55 AM
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How do we know whether or not the sunroof will be optional or not in the USA? For all we know now they will simply follow the previous formula and reserve sunroof delete for the RS model like the previous iterations. I can't stand the mandatory sunroof, personally so I hope they do away with it.
I think you will get your wish; someone posted an internal document here with a "summary" of the key changes for the 997 GT3.2....sunroof delete was noted as one of the key changes.
Although I personally like having a sunroof, I'm glad they listened to the majority and deleted it..as I noted earlier, I think P should get credit for listening...sunroof delete, bigger brakes, more downforce, lightweight headlight option. Now let's hope they fixed the RMS leak.
bill
#18
03-04-2009, 10:07 AM
well i think its losing its way with each incarnation as it becomes more and more removed from a finely fettled track beast and steps daintily down the path of grand cruiser.
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
Last edited by neilwight; 03-04-2009 at 10:15 AM.
#20
03-04-2009, 10:55 AM
well i think its losing its way with each incarnation as it becomes more and more removed from a finely fettled track beast and steps daintily down the path of grand cruiser.
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
#21
03-04-2009, 11:03 AM
I actually think Porsche is finding it's way with the GT3 again. The no sunroof delete was blasphemy on the 997.1 GT3, utter nonsense!!!! Also BS was the fact that at least the US versions weighed well over 3200 lbs. That is not the goal of a GT3, that is very much grand tourer esque as a GT3 has ever been.
The 997.2 GT3 has surpassed the 997.1 in the aspect of the sunroof, and adding a hardcore track options like centerlock and lightweight headlights. Of which the 997 had NO HARDCORE TRACK OPTIONS. And look at the wing, for more aggressive than the sudo taco wing and the whatever that thing was on the 996 GT3 which was the hardest core of them all.
So IMO if you look at the details this is more hardcore than the MKI in every way, yet still able to be civilized. Jury is still out on the weight because Porsche likes to be fuzzy about curb weights. So no, Porsche has not lost their way, they are coming back to it.
With all this being said, this is all nitpicking because all of the GT3's are great cars, and even with added plushness, the 997 GT3 is a better car than the 996, and the MKII will be no different.
The 997.2 GT3 has surpassed the 997.1 in the aspect of the sunroof, and adding a hardcore track options like centerlock and lightweight headlights. Of which the 997 had NO HARDCORE TRACK OPTIONS. And look at the wing, for more aggressive than the sudo taco wing and the whatever that thing was on the 996 GT3 which was the hardest core of them all.
So IMO if you look at the details this is more hardcore than the MKI in every way, yet still able to be civilized. Jury is still out on the weight because Porsche likes to be fuzzy about curb weights. So no, Porsche has not lost their way, they are coming back to it.
With all this being said, this is all nitpicking because all of the GT3's are great cars, and even with added plushness, the 997 GT3 is a better car than the 996, and the MKII will be no different.
#23
03-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Duluth, Ga
Age: 64
Posts: 538
Rep Power: 51 well i think its losing its way with each incarnation as it becomes more and more removed from a finely fettled track beast and steps daintily down the path of grand cruiser.
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
As far as Ferrari...well, the 430 & Scud are TERRIFIC cars, but the rest of the line...ugh. 612 is a bore, 599, though a great performer looks like a Supra and the Cali is just plain ugly. I would say Porsche's lineup is moving in the right direction and Ferrari is not.....
Bill
#24
03-04-2009, 01:42 PM
this is all highly subjective so each to their own.
i guess i dont see the 997 mk1 car as being a step in the right direction regards to purity either so the Mk2 weighing the same doesnt mean much to me.. the RS version saved that model imho and my whole point is that the regular Mk1 should have been the RS if the whole GT3 ethos was being held true.
im not denying that theres real steps being taken forwards in terms of engineering with each release, this has been the case right through from the 996 however it seems that there seems to now be an obvious divergence in terms of the race car technology and visual styling on the cup cars and that on the street car.
performance is clearly improving with each model but its the world outside the numbers thats troubling me. if we take it to its extreme, think what the performance would be if they built a GT3 with their original approach.
its this diluting and leaning towards comfort features that worries me. the ethos here should be (and was) track breeding still seen in the scuderia. if you want a comfort cruising porsche get a non GT3 model, theres plenty to choose from, some of which are faster and more powerful
to my mind, these new GT3 models smell ever so slightly of marketing triumphing. the salesmen want to trade on the race prestige but are aware that by sticking with this in true form will alienate many buyers who cant accomodate various aspects that come with this.
my worry for the GT3 brand is that its starting to become unworthy of its badge. this is the whole point of my concern. increasing performance and allowing a sunroof delete does nothing to aleviate these for me atleast.
i dont follow your reasoning regarding the ferrari and porsche lines as a whole or how it is in any way relevant to this topic. im not interested in this in relation to this discussion. what ferrari are doing with the scuderia version of the 430 is the very ethos porsche started with the GT3 model. one is now holding this firm and pushing it in very positive way, the other undoing all their good work as far as i can see....and i should note with much sadness.
i guess i dont see the 997 mk1 car as being a step in the right direction regards to purity either so the Mk2 weighing the same doesnt mean much to me.. the RS version saved that model imho and my whole point is that the regular Mk1 should have been the RS if the whole GT3 ethos was being held true.
im not denying that theres real steps being taken forwards in terms of engineering with each release, this has been the case right through from the 996 however it seems that there seems to now be an obvious divergence in terms of the race car technology and visual styling on the cup cars and that on the street car.
performance is clearly improving with each model but its the world outside the numbers thats troubling me. if we take it to its extreme, think what the performance would be if they built a GT3 with their original approach.
its this diluting and leaning towards comfort features that worries me. the ethos here should be (and was) track breeding still seen in the scuderia. if you want a comfort cruising porsche get a non GT3 model, theres plenty to choose from, some of which are faster and more powerful
to my mind, these new GT3 models smell ever so slightly of marketing triumphing. the salesmen want to trade on the race prestige but are aware that by sticking with this in true form will alienate many buyers who cant accomodate various aspects that come with this.
my worry for the GT3 brand is that its starting to become unworthy of its badge. this is the whole point of my concern. increasing performance and allowing a sunroof delete does nothing to aleviate these for me atleast.
i dont follow your reasoning regarding the ferrari and porsche lines as a whole or how it is in any way relevant to this topic. im not interested in this in relation to this discussion. what ferrari are doing with the scuderia version of the 430 is the very ethos porsche started with the GT3 model. one is now holding this firm and pushing it in very positive way, the other undoing all their good work as far as i can see....and i should note with much sadness.
Last edited by neilwight; 03-04-2009 at 01:45 PM.
#25
03-04-2009, 03:29 PM
How did the RS save the 997.1 GT3? That was the worst of all IMO. It was much more of a departure from the 996 GT3 RS than the base 996 GT3 was to the 996. No roll cage option (at least in the states) I also don't think the euro 997 seats were an option either. The 997 RS is a LWFW and a bright paint coat and a sunroof delete that should have been on the base MKI anyways.
But I has said all along that Porsche went a little overboard with the GT in GT3 for the 997, at least initially. This is at least going in the right direction.
But I has said all along that Porsche went a little overboard with the GT in GT3 for the 997, at least initially. This is at least going in the right direction.
#26
03-04-2009, 04:41 PM
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer.
If you want leather dash, great, you can get it as an option, but it is not standard.
You want GPS? Better spec the PCM too because you only get a standard CDR radio system otherwise.
Want to loose weight? Spec the free Halogen headlights instead of the xenon ones.
Care about park-assist? Well, tough luck, option is not available on a GT3
Sunroof (in EU)? No can do sir
Rear wiper? You must be kidding
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
Moreover you get bigger brakes and a more track-oriented suspension (or is the fact that it is PASM which also has a non-sport mode also "sell-out"?) than a Carrera, not to mention the fact that there is stuff which is mounted in rubber on the Carrera which is just solid metal in the GT3 (some suspension parts e.g.).
The car comes with PSM which, unlike on the Carrera, you can completely disable (on the Carrera the system, even when disabled, always works as soon as the ABS system detects locking front wheels)
This car also has an optional dynamic engine mount damper system. Surely that is something only people that take heated steering wheels and seats are interested in
#28
03-04-2009, 05:47 PM
well i think its losing its way with each incarnation as it becomes more and more removed from a finely fettled track beast and steps daintily down the path of grand cruiser.
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
the shape is slowly turning more bling and less track focused to my eye and theres a serious aesthetic gap opening between the cup cars and the road models in styling cues that i dont enjoy one little bit. it leaves me feeling cold towards this new GT3
the inside is getting plush and loaded too and its just all round become softer. something increasing HP does nothing to quel. upping it doesnt offset that the car is suffering from a lack of focus in terms of its application.
it seems to be starting the slide witnessed previously with the turbo and this model revision has accelerated it somewhat, atleast to my mind. before we know it we are going to be looking at a rather softened car and be much the worse for it.
nose lift for goodness sake? i know its an option but that it is even offered on a GT3 is surely a paradox.
i hate to say it but look at what ferrari are pushing with the scuderia, this is the direction Porsche should have been taking us with each incarnation of the GT3, instead each model moves further in the other direction, a steady dwindiling towards power heated seats, bling aero and cup holders
If you have a grievence about Porsche's direction, it should be towards the RS as we pay 15-20% more for very little more. This is marketed as a purpose built track car, this should be the one with significant weight loss (like the scuderia) and yet they give us a 20kg saving for thousands more and we pay it gladly... This is the car that should get more aero, less bling bling, less carpet and luxury and weight savings of 50-100kg as standard... Why exactly are we paying 20% more for it???
#29
03-04-2009, 06:58 PM
DING DING DING DING!!!!!
We have a winner. I cannot for the life of me understand why guys pay 175 k+ for a bright paint job, sunroof delete, wing and LWFW. This is one case where I could care less if someone did a poser version of the RS because IMO the RS is a poser from the factory. It has the outside appearance of what we were introduced to in the 996 RS, but that's about it.
If there is a new RS it will certainly be back to the hardcore thing that was the 996 RS.
We have a winner. I cannot for the life of me understand why guys pay 175 k+ for a bright paint job, sunroof delete, wing and LWFW. This is one case where I could care less if someone did a poser version of the RS because IMO the RS is a poser from the factory. It has the outside appearance of what we were introduced to in the 996 RS, but that's about it.
If there is a new RS it will certainly be back to the hardcore thing that was the 996 RS.
