Geez, I don't look for a couple of days and it is already ++++ posts long.

Whether the Ring's GT-r was tarted up or not is not relevant to real world performance.

During the 2008 OLOA the GT3 with Ian Stewart was faster overall at more tracks than the GT-r that was driven by Tony Swan.

During the 2009 OLOA the GT-r won Overall and the GT2 came in 2nd. Neither 1 of these cars could be called stock by any stretch of imagination.

What I remember most, besides Ians 2 cones @ the BMW Center, was where we ran the same tracks as last year, CMP and Beaverun, neither the 2009 GT-r or GT2 were as fast as the Viper ACR that came in 2nd in 2008. Therefore Viper ACR is greater than GT2/GT-r.

Peter

 

For this year's OLOA what was the win ratio for the GTR and GT2 on the road course?

 

From the looks of things he actually just joined quite recently, most likely to just praise and brag about the new time the GTR set, which by the way is still far slower than Nissa's time and also slower than Porsches GT2 and CGT time.

 

If Best Motoring is your source for automotive knowledge you may want to rethink things. Your earlier post about a 3 mile course for 5 laps equates to 11 minutes on track, which is nothing. The "enduro" you speak of was 20 minute sessions, and the CSL which overheated, overheated because of the SMG gearbox (which has been known to happen if run really hard).

So that alone tells me you really don't know what you are talking about, and you don't have any real world knowledge about these cars, all you are doing is spewing out results from "time attack" videos.

I'll say one thing, you've got some stones.....coming into a 911 GT forum and trying to educate a bunch of GT3 owners about their own cars. Wow.

Since you are into "facts" so much, then please refer back to the first page of this thread where a test shows the GTR is slower than the GT3.

 

I can see already it is useless talking about anything with you Porsche fanatics. It's like a religion to you. Now you're making more claims about the reason I joined? Man, you guys are mind readers also.

What don't you understand about the MANY times I said that the GT3 is one of my favorite cars? How many times have I said that now? Read my posts and find out.

Now, this is the 4 time I've said I don't base everything I am saying from Best Motoring? Get that part yet? I've quoted several comparison tests and online findings also. As far as the Best Motoring test, it was the engine temp that overheated, so you apparently don't know about that test either. But I'm sure it was rigged by Best Motoring, right? Just like all the Nurburgring testing the GTR did.

You talk at me as if just because I don't own a M3 or a GT3 or whatever that I know nothing about cars. Nice assumptions. Please, explain to me why you know more? Oh, that's right because I quoted some results from Best Motoring? The biased publication. Like the bias they showed when comparing the E92 M3 to the Lexus IS-F. They said it was no contest, M3 all the way. I would agree with that also.

Really? How did I try to educate any of you on your GT3? Please, show me a post where I told any GT3 owners that I think the car is this or that? No, I didn't. What I did say is it was one of my favorite cars, I respect it way more than you know, so stop with your baseless accusations of what I supposedly did.

You know, I belong to GT3 forums, M3 forums, GTR forums, Supra forums, etc. I'm not some little kid writing across the nation here that has never driven anything but some hopped up Civic or something like that.

What I have discovered, is that the more expensive the car, the worse the accusations of Nissan cheating get.

Yea, and monaroCountry, the only reason I've ever seen you post in the GTR section of 6speedonline is to bash the GTR. Yeah, I've gone through plenty of posts. You invade the GTR forum area here and tell everyone that Nissan are liars. How is that any different? Don't throw stones at glass houses.

 

This is one heated thread.

 

Can someone please move this thread into the Civic forum??

 

Most of us "track guys" are NOT knocking the GT-R's performance.

On it's own right, the GT-R provides remarkable performance for a ~3900 lb. 2 door, four passenger semi-luxury coupe.


It's the bragging by Nissan and their fanbois using questionable data that's obnoxious !!!

Porsche and BMW earned their reputation within the track community only after many years of track experience.

GM "got it right" with the C5 Z06 and earned their "Chops" at the track.

Nissan supplied GT-R's to a variety of Car Mag Rags, encouraged them (even showed them how) to use "Launch Control" in order to achieve remarkable zero to sixty and quarter mile elapse times. Next, Nissan VOIDS THE WARRANTY on the GT-R when their customers use the same techniques. Nissan even choose to blame their American customers for the GT-R's mechanical shortcomings.

Both Porsche and GM, as well as many auto magazines pointed fingers at Nissan's PR & marketing with the GT-R !!!

Due to "over hyping" the GT-R, Nissan now has a tough road ahead of them...
to regain credibility within the automobile community.

 

The GT2 won 7 of 11 road course events.


But as far as any track is concerned, the ACR is > than anything else at the moment, period.

 

So I wasn't that far off when I said earlier on this tread that GTR fans were for the most part "Fast and Furious kids that like to race in straight line on the streets" !

Don't get me wrong, you have the right to love the car you want, but you shouldn't argue with people that know things FROM EXPERIENCE and not from reading magazines... don't you know that these articles are paid advertising ? The ads from the car builders (Porsche included) in those magazines represent a large share of their income. You have the right to believe in them, but the day you can afford your dream car (most of us dreamed a long time before to have one), if you spend enough time on tracks to learn what is your car dynamics, then you will have a bit more credibility.

Again GTR is a great car, but it is not a great TRACK CAR. GT3 is a good one and the best track car that money can buy stock these days is the ACR. Not my style, but this car is really fast !

 

The ACR has no air-con, has so much drag that it tops out at about 170mph and suffers ride vibrations twice as bad as the GTR or 997TT (as measured by C&D). Should be compared to a Mosler MT900S and has no place in GTR, GT2 and ZR1 comparisons. May as well go for a Radical SR8 if you're sacrificing that much comfort.

 

How many did the GTR win on the road course? Wasn't the GTR supposed to be far faster than the GT2 (if you base things on Nurburgring lap times and capabilities) and isnt the GTR supposed to be far easier to drive than the RR Porsche GT2? Something just doesnt add up.

 

I think the GTR itself is a great car. It's gorilla marketing tactics and the cows who follow it are what bother me.

For what its worth, the GTR is faster than a 997 Turbo, but unreliable.

Porsche has to step up and answer with a significantly faster 997.2 Turbo. I'm just not sure that will happen if the GT3 is only a few ticks faster than the GTR. It would mean that the turbo would have to be faster than the GT3, and that would be bad for Porsche on a marketing stand point.

Either way, from this point on, I'll be buying used Porsche's. New Porsche models sold that are slower than a GTR are not worth it. Even the new 997.2 GT3 seems to be priced inappropriately given that a car for 40K less is almost as quick around a track and faster on a straight. Does the GT3 look that good that it's worth 40k more? I'd rather buy a slower but more appropriately priced 997.2 since at this point in time, a 997 is a 997 is still not that much faster than a GTR.

I'd still never buy a GTR (not a big fan of the looks), but now I'm almost positive that I won't buy a new Porsche until they get their $hit together.

 

I said the track! With all the gearbox rattling and shaking and 1000lb springs on the GT-R, it's no daisy either. So the ACR is more commited to it's task, who cars, it's only got what most of the track veterans would put on their car anyways.

BTW where are you getting info from, the ACR is a full Viper AC and all (STANDARD). It only has aero, brakes and a few other little tweaks. I've seen several of them driven to cars shows and around on the streets. Please at least make some accurate assertions.

I believe the GT-R won the other 4. If the GT2 didn't lose the front splitter it may have won a couple more. This despite a 6 mph trap speed deficit meaning it was pretty underpowered, and stock aero vs moveable aero devices.

 

Could you be any more snobby? Jesus, I'm nearly 40 years old, I'm not some fast and furious kid. Talk about pompous. Just cause I can't afford a car such as yours does not mean anything. My Supra is a mint example with few mods to make it better at the track. It isn't some "riced out" supra with bull sh*t all over it. Just because you can afford a car such as your GT3 and I can't doesn't make me an idiot with cars. I've done more computer tuning and programming with cars and physical work on them than you probably ever have. We all have different experience levels, but just because I haven't tracked a GT3 doesn't make me an idiot with cars.

You think that just because I have Japanese cars, that I'm a ricer. Talk about stereo typing.