Nissan GTR vs 997 GT3 mk2 at the ring! Open this thread for the times
#106
Someone else recorded 7:24 in the F CS.
Either way, the GTR is 6s behind a car which has ran 7.28 in other hands (the CGT) and 10s ahead of a car that has made 7:42 in other hands (the MkI GT3). Seems feasible that a low 7:3X is possible and once you get to low 7:3X, the difference between that and 7:29 (Nissan claim with stock wheels) is just splitting hairs.
I guess if Sport Auto supertest a ZR1 we'll see. If they can't make 7:2X, then they're obviously a little off the pace. Currently the GTR is the fastest non-Porsche-based car they've tested aside from the ultra-expensive Zonda F and Koenigsegg CCR.
Either way, the GTR is 6s behind a car which has ran 7.28 in other hands (the CGT) and 10s ahead of a car that has made 7:42 in other hands (the MkI GT3). Seems feasible that a low 7:3X is possible and once you get to low 7:3X, the difference between that and 7:29 (Nissan claim with stock wheels) is just splitting hairs.
I guess if Sport Auto supertest a ZR1 we'll see. If they can't make 7:2X, then they're obviously a little off the pace. Currently the GTR is the fastest non-Porsche-based car they've tested aside from the ultra-expensive Zonda F and Koenigsegg CCR.
I guess we could assume Suzuki, since he's so great could run 7:19 in the CGT and 7:23 or so in the GT2. The Z06's superlap was the same time as the fabreichte, I don't think SA took it seriously, there is clear misshifts on the video of the lap which cost it a few seconds.
And finally, when we get down to who supplied the car and the straight speeds, it will be very telling and Nissan has even more credibility to lose if someone can't match their times.
#107
So let get this straight. Its OK for HVS to be off by 16 or so odd seconds on the 911 TT's time but it is NOT OK for him to be off of the GTR's time by 12 secs?
Source
997 TT claimed time by Porsche (7.38)
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
Time ran by Sport Auto HVS durring a Super Test for 997 TT (7.54)
http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...g-1041269.html
I don't know about you man, but that seems like a bigger disparity between times then the one you guys are crying bloody murder over. I think its time to step away from the Kool-Aid
Hammad
Source
997 TT claimed time by Porsche (7.38)
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
Time ran by Sport Auto HVS durring a Super Test for 997 TT (7.54)
http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...g-1041269.html
I don't know about you man, but that seems like a bigger disparity between times then the one you guys are crying bloody murder over. I think its time to step away from the Kool-Aid
Hammad
So no response to the above statement Heavy?
Wrong, the 7:29 was for the US spec GT-R, the Euro spec GT-R has more hp, improved suspension, upgraded tires and Nissan is claiming 7:26.7 which means it should therefore have been faster than both the CGT and GT2 which is a failure in and of itself.
I guess we could assume Suzuki, since he's so great could run 7:19 in the CGT and 7:23 or so in the GT2. The Z06's superlap was the same time as the fabreichte, I don't think SA took it seriously, there is clear misshifts on the video of the lap which cost it a few seconds.
And finally, when we get down to who supplied the car and the straight speeds, it will be very telling and Nissan has even more credibility to lose if someone can't match their times.
I guess we could assume Suzuki, since he's so great could run 7:19 in the CGT and 7:23 or so in the GT2. The Z06's superlap was the same time as the fabreichte, I don't think SA took it seriously, there is clear misshifts on the video of the lap which cost it a few seconds.
And finally, when we get down to who supplied the car and the straight speeds, it will be very telling and Nissan has even more credibility to lose if someone can't match their times.
Hammad
#108
7:38 was not an official Porsche claim, or can you not read? I don't know if Porsche has ever submitted an official time for the 997 TT.
Add to that the fact that the TT has been very similar in performance to the GT-R, Z06 and GT3 on PS2's it makes no sense that it's several seconds back on MPSC especially when it was within a few tenths of them on the hockenheim ring. And if the MPSC are any indication it would suggest the 997 TT is slower than the 996 TT since Sport Auto ran 7:56 in a 996 TT on PS2's. You really believe that, then fine, but the fact that Sport Autos didn't even finish the video lap of the ring, suggest they didn't put much effort into it.
You are acting like this is a victory being that the GT-R is still 12 seconds back anyways. I think Porsches claims have proven themselves in general with the TT's time bein an anomaly. In this case, HVS time is still much slower and STILL the anomaly because it's the closest. With a Nissan supplied car no less.
That answer your question?
#109
7:38 was not an official Porsche claim, or can you not read? I don't know if Porsche has ever submitted an official time for the 997 TT.
Add to that the fact that the TT has been very similar in performance to the GT-R, Z06 and GT3 on PS2's it makes no sense that it's several seconds back on MPSC especially when it was within a few tenths of them on the hockenheim ring. And if the MPSC are any indication it would suggest the 997 TT is slower than the 996 TT since Sport Auto ran 7:56 in a 996 TT on PS2's. You really believe that, then fine, but the fact that Sport Autos didn't even finish the video lap of the ring, suggest they didn't put much effort into it.
You are acting like this is a victory being that the GT-R is still 12 seconds back anyways. I think Porsches claims have proven themselves in general with the TT's time bein an anomaly. In this case, HVS time is still much slower and STILL the anomaly because it's the closest. With a Nissan supplied car no less.
That answer your question?
Add to that the fact that the TT has been very similar in performance to the GT-R, Z06 and GT3 on PS2's it makes no sense that it's several seconds back on MPSC especially when it was within a few tenths of them on the hockenheim ring. And if the MPSC are any indication it would suggest the 997 TT is slower than the 996 TT since Sport Auto ran 7:56 in a 996 TT on PS2's. You really believe that, then fine, but the fact that Sport Autos didn't even finish the video lap of the ring, suggest they didn't put much effort into it.
You are acting like this is a victory being that the GT-R is still 12 seconds back anyways. I think Porsches claims have proven themselves in general with the TT's time bein an anomaly. In this case, HVS time is still much slower and STILL the anomaly because it's the closest. With a Nissan supplied car no less.
That answer your question?
#110
Out of interest. How many seconds faster is the GT2 than the Turbo on the Nurburgring GP circuit?
#111
Hahahah dont make me laugh with these Best Motoring garbage .
Wrong, the 7:29 was for the US spec GT-R, the Euro spec GT-R has more hp, improved suspension, upgraded tires and Nissan is claiming 7:26.7 which means it should therefore have been faster than both the CGT and GT2 which is a failure in and of itself.
I guess we could assume Suzuki, since he's so great could run 7:19 in the CGT and 7:23 or so in the GT2. The Z06's superlap was the same time as the fabreichte, I don't think SA took it seriously, there is clear misshifts on the video of the lap which cost it a few seconds.
And finally, when we get down to who supplied the car and the straight speeds, it will be very telling and Nissan has even more credibility to lose if someone can't match their times.
I guess we could assume Suzuki, since he's so great could run 7:19 in the CGT and 7:23 or so in the GT2. The Z06's superlap was the same time as the fabreichte, I don't think SA took it seriously, there is clear misshifts on the video of the lap which cost it a few seconds.
And finally, when we get down to who supplied the car and the straight speeds, it will be very telling and Nissan has even more credibility to lose if someone can't match their times.
#112
Hahahah dont make me laugh with these Best Motoring garbage .
I agree, why cant the GTR beat the GT2 or even get close to it in all its ring tests? I thought the GTR was supposed to be running with supercars like the Enzo and Zonda, not with GT3's and Turbo's. Nissan fabricated its 7:26 time pure and simple.
I agree, why cant the GTR beat the GT2 or even get close to it in all its ring tests? I thought the GTR was supposed to be running with supercars like the Enzo and Zonda, not with GT3's and Turbo's. Nissan fabricated its 7:26 time pure and simple.
Nissan fabricated it's time? Prove it. They have provided more proof for their times (because they knew people like you would never believe them) than ANY other manufacturer that I have heard of.
You just cannot accept the fact that it did it.
Last edited by Doom4420; 05-29-2009 at 05:21 PM. Reason: addition
#113
Not really. For the same reason that Suzuki is fast in the GTR, HvS is fast in Porsches. He has more experience with them, having driven for a German magazine for so long. I think the time delta between the GT2 and Scuderia proves this. On most tracks the Scuderia is as fast or, usually, faster than the GT2. It's even faster than an Enzo on Fiorano.
HvS had two goes with the GTR, which is more than most other cars.
So? It's well off the pace. It's back in 997.1 GT3 and M3 CSL territory.
I'm sure any suspicions would have been leaked by now. We know how easy it is to tweak a 10s quarter out of the GTR. Any foul play would be instantly reported through the many rumour channels.
#114
Yep, Japanese are known to be cheats. No honor in their society whatsoever.
I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why Best Motoring is biased...
I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why Best Motoring is biased...
Last edited by Doom4420; 05-29-2009 at 06:02 PM.
#115
Please, Mr. Knowledge, explain to me why Best Motoring is a joke? Bias? I'm sure you'll say that. The GTR was beaten on Tskuba circuit by the Gallardo on it's debut. The R34 was beaten in it's debut there too by the RX7 at the time. No bias there. Why then? All you guys do is laugh at the information I present with no facts behind it. Come on, tell me why?
Open your eyes, try using Best Motoring as your definitive source and in most instances you will be laughed out of the room. Best Motoring is a good show but they are not very well respected by other publications, manufacturers and the general public.
Why then? All you guys do is laugh at the information I present with no facts behind it. Come on, tell me why?
Nissan fabricated it's time? Prove it. They have provided more proof for their times (because they knew people like you would never believe them) than ANY other manufacturer that I have heard of.
You just cannot accept the fact that it did it.
Nissan fabricated it's time? Prove it. They have provided more proof for their times (because they knew people like you would never believe them) than ANY other manufacturer that I have heard of.
You just cannot accept the fact that it did it.
The time that Nissan set was proof that they did indeed set the time, however a Video isnt enough to determine whether or not the car used was stock. This is why people like myself and heavy are soo interested on the GTR's top speed on the long straight. Driver Republic's car was some 11mph slower on the long straight which would indicate that the stock car used had far less power than the one Nissan used.
Nissan does have a history of cheating around the Nurburgring and with the GTR. Nissan hired Dirk Schoymans to set the fastest time for the R33 which netted him a 7:59 lap, a few months later Autocar also hired Dirk Schoymans to again drive a stock showroom GTR however this time Dirk was 30 seconds slower also in perfect weather.
Last edited by monaroCountry; 05-29-2009 at 06:22 PM.
#116
I'm still asking why. I've collected over 70 Best motoring videos. Never heard anything negative about them or bias until you. Do you see them deliberatly making certain cars lose?
Many of the drivers, despite knowing the R35 is faster, said that they love the M3 and the Porsches. I don't see the bias.
Also, please tell me why the GTR has won more "Car of the Year" decisions by major magazines than any other single car that I've seen in my 39 years?
As far as whether Nissan cheated, didn't Sport Auto just get 7:38? Did Nissan boost the performance on this car too?
Many of the drivers, despite knowing the R35 is faster, said that they love the M3 and the Porsches. I don't see the bias.
Also, please tell me why the GTR has won more "Car of the Year" decisions by major magazines than any other single car that I've seen in my 39 years?
As far as whether Nissan cheated, didn't Sport Auto just get 7:38? Did Nissan boost the performance on this car too?
Last edited by Doom4420; 05-29-2009 at 06:35 PM.
#117
Nissan does have a history of cheating and no the Japanese are not known as cheats although many Japanese manufacturers were busted over promising on engine power and under delivering (in America).
#118
So Dirk got about a 7:30 with the R33 GTR? Really? I have a Mazdaspeed 3 as a daily driver. They took a stock one out and got an 8:39 with it. So my Mazda got 9 seconds slower than an R33? Wow, my car is quick.
I'm sure by now you probably think I dislike Porsche. Nothing could be further than the truth. I just visited the local bookstore and purchased 2 magazines that feature the new GT3.
I'm sure by now you probably think I dislike Porsche. Nothing could be further than the truth. I just visited the local bookstore and purchased 2 magazines that feature the new GT3.
#119
I'm still asking why. I've collected over 70 Best motoring videos. Never heard anything negative about them or bias until you. Do you see them deliberatly making certain cars lose?
Many of the drivers, despite knowing the R35 is faster, said that they love the M3 and the Porsches. I don't see the bias.
Also, please tell me why the GTR has won more "Car of the Year" decisions by major magazines than any other single car that I've seen in my 39 years?
Many of the drivers, despite knowing the R35 is faster, said that they love the M3 and the Porsches. I don't see the bias.
Also, please tell me why the GTR has won more "Car of the Year" decisions by major magazines than any other single car that I've seen in my 39 years?
Having a faster car and having an easier car to handle for the average joe are totally different things. The GTR is an easier car to drive but not a faster car as compared with the other 7:20's car.
#120
So Dirk got about a 7:30 with the R33 GTR? Really? I have a Mazdaspeed 3 as a daily driver. They took a stock one out and got an 8:39 with it. So my Mazda got 9 seconds slower than an R33? Wow, my car is quick.
I'm sure by now you probably think I dislike Porsche. Nothing could be further than the truth. I just visited the local bookstore and purchased 2 magazines that feature the new GT3.
I'm sure by now you probably think I dislike Porsche. Nothing could be further than the truth. I just visited the local bookstore and purchased 2 magazines that feature the new GT3.
NOOOOOO Dirk set a 7:59 when he was a Nissan test driver using a Nissan prepped car, he was 8:30's when Auto car hired him to test a stock showroom R33.