09 C2S or 2010 GT3?
#46
02-25-2010 | 07:04 AM
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This helps somewhat. I'm headed back to a C2S. 1) I have found a GT3 2010 that is close to what I want (color) a bit more loaded up but. The dealer will take about 5k off list. Don't get me wrong...when I have test driven the car....awesome. But I keep coming back to this: I won't track it, I am an athletic guy who wants performance and "stiff" sport feel. But on a nice summer night, I want to take it out for an ice cream with the sunroof open, my 9 month old in the backseat and enjoy my summer sports car. Issue: Can't find an 09 close spec with the sport options/color I want and ordering one right now is a problem. The dealers will tell you Porsche is screwed up with the whole thing. I have found a 2010 C2S spec'd as close to what I want (can't believe it) color and sport seats, sport suspension, sport exhaust, nav, etc. They are willing to swap wheels to give me the ones I want and ship the car for about 5k off list.
I'm thinking as awesome as the GT3 is, this is a better all around sports car. Guys have told me that C2S with sport options is a great machine......forgetting about resale as a GT3 will always do better despite the higher up front cost.
comments?
I'm thinking as awesome as the GT3 is, this is a better all around sports car. Guys have told me that C2S with sport options is a great machine......forgetting about resale as a GT3 will always do better despite the higher up front cost.
comments?
I had a 997S for a year, great car. I enjoy the 6 GT3 more, but, I have a lot of track experience, so I appreciate its harder focus. And, I do not drive it every day. I guess I'm kind of in the middle of some of the comments offered. The 997S is certainly a competent casual track car with only the usual prep. From my perception, there is a greater difference in the two cars on track than some suggest. I would always recommend the GT3, and by a considerable margin. With all respect to the comments above, not many of us drive in the class of Walter Rohrl. Being a track driver of average competence, the GT3 is easier for me to drive quicker, and with more confidence. With that said, it is not the easiest car in which to immediately gain that confidence.
#47
02-25-2010 | 08:51 AM
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^^^ I'd vote for the GT3, of course I just had my .2 delivered late Dec. 2009. I came from a 997 turbo and previously a C2S. There are obvious pros and cons to each of your choices. It appears that a sunroof is very important so there's one. However, the initial price delta should be greater. I would expect more off a 2009 ($20k) or even 2010 (at least $10K) to consider one over a GT3 ($5k off) if price is a consideration. Not that I personally would pick either of the former over the 3 even with the discounts I suggest.
With that said the .2 C2S is an extremely nice car. It just lacks too much personality for me. Ring times, however close, are meaningless when it comes to the emotions a GT3 provides.
With that said the .2 C2S is an extremely nice car. It just lacks too much personality for me. Ring times, however close, are meaningless when it comes to the emotions a GT3 provides.
#48
02-25-2010 | 10:05 AM
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thanks. comment on a great deal. I agree. Lousy deals on 2010s. I push hard and I keep getting a consistent..."there aren't going to be many cars available from Porsche this year". They all seem to have clamped down and are willing to let me walk. 10k isn't happening on a 2010 C2S from what I can experience. All the dealers are holding fast. even backing up on some of the 2009s (porsche has cut back their dealer kickback of 2009). They get $7k back from Porsche below invoice.
So the best "deal" isn't really out there. It's getting what you want and expecting to get the best deal available. It does bother me that I'm talking about a $27k difference between the loaded up C2S that I like and the GT3 that I am looking at.....seems like it should be more. the 2010 GT3 has ceramics btw.....
So the best "deal" isn't really out there. It's getting what you want and expecting to get the best deal available. It does bother me that I'm talking about a $27k difference between the loaded up C2S that I like and the GT3 that I am looking at.....seems like it should be more. the 2010 GT3 has ceramics btw.....
#49
02-25-2010 | 11:50 AM
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Money wise, I would rather have a low mileage 2007 or 2008 GT3 <7000mi than any C2S. There is that much difference between these models IMHO. The 2010 GT3 is still premium priced but you can get almost new 2007/08 GT3s for 80-100k with CPOs. Sorry I do not get why it would even be a hard decision......
Tracking it or not....hell I dont track mine and bought it to enjoy much more than any plain jane C2S
Tracking it or not....hell I dont track mine and bought it to enjoy much more than any plain jane C2S
#50
02-25-2010 | 02:26 PM
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I came very close to buying an 09 997TT to replace my '07 GT3. They gave me a very good price had an excellent lease promotion at the time, but driving it left me cold. That same day I also test drove a new C2S with PDK. Even so, the Turbo experience did not compare to the GT3 and the C2S was a notch below the turbo. The ride quality of my 997.1 GT3 is very liveable as the C2S is already sporty and not much more comfortable, IMO. At the time the '10 GT3 wasn't available, so that wasn't an option. The only real question is if you can live without the backseat. If you can, and you have the means, don't even consider a C2S. In fact, I would say an 07-08 is a better option over the C2S. One thing I can't stress enough: Performance numbers don't mean anything when you compare the visceral feel the GT3 gives vs a C2S. You might as well be comparing a Honda. They are that different. Also, like others said, you will never get the GT3 out of your head if you ever considered one. It sounds like money is a consideration, so yes a C2S would be a better choice financially (In which case I'd say get a CPO 997 GT3 over new C2S anyway). If you can afford either and don't need the backseat, the GT3 is a no-brainer. No other way to put it.
I love my GT3 so much I won't even be upgrading to the 997.2 GT3. I'm just gonna do the SW 3.9 and keep her.
BTW, I've never tracked my GT3 and don't care if I ever do. Tracking was never taken into consideration in my purchase, just pure emotion
I love my GT3 so much I won't even be upgrading to the 997.2 GT3. I'm just gonna do the SW 3.9 and keep her.
BTW, I've never tracked my GT3 and don't care if I ever do. Tracking was never taken into consideration in my purchase, just pure emotion
Last edited by medici78; 02-25-2010 at 02:28 PM.
#51
03-02-2010 | 12:42 AM
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12.3% discount off of 100k car is more like 88k vs. 82k. Are you really telling me that you ordered a 2009 997.2 and got an 18% discount? I can see MAYBE one on the lot with the factory rebate to the dealer of 8-10k on "in stock" cars. Believe me, I've pushed these guys. The best I can get now is either a no-GPS car, no Spt Chrono car for 78k (96k MSRP) or 82.5K on no spt chrono (100k MSRP).
on 2010 C2S, best I can get off list is 6k. I can get 9k off 2010 GT3.
All above in color I want.
Issue: I'm not going to track at all. Don't laugh but no sunroof in a summer sports car? And having to deal with the low clearance issue?......I'm thinking about ordering a 100k MSRP C2S with navigation, sport seats, PASM sport suspension, sport chrono, sport exhaust, Maybe the power kit (16k extra). Sporty car which I'll pay about 93k for. More driveability, sunroof...great for the summer...plenty of power for the road..tight suspension....and I can even throw my 6 month old in the back (porsche car seat) with my wife on a nice day....not happening in the GT3....worth about 65k in not too long. GT3 is great but really a track car.....$114k and probably worth about 90k in a couple of years.
So.....as someone said...GT3 probably a better investment but what suits your purpose best? BTW....guys...my wife wants me to get the GT3 because it's so bad. How about that?
GT3 is awesome, looks and sounds incredible....but trying not to put too much weight on track times....because it will be driven aggressively...on the road....
on 2010 C2S, best I can get off list is 6k. I can get 9k off 2010 GT3.
All above in color I want.
Issue: I'm not going to track at all. Don't laugh but no sunroof in a summer sports car? And having to deal with the low clearance issue?......I'm thinking about ordering a 100k MSRP C2S with navigation, sport seats, PASM sport suspension, sport chrono, sport exhaust, Maybe the power kit (16k extra). Sporty car which I'll pay about 93k for. More driveability, sunroof...great for the summer...plenty of power for the road..tight suspension....and I can even throw my 6 month old in the back (porsche car seat) with my wife on a nice day....not happening in the GT3....worth about 65k in not too long. GT3 is great but really a track car.....$114k and probably worth about 90k in a couple of years.
So.....as someone said...GT3 probably a better investment but what suits your purpose best? BTW....guys...my wife wants me to get the GT3 because it's so bad. How about that?
GT3 is awesome, looks and sounds incredible....but trying not to put too much weight on track times....because it will be driven aggressively...on the road....
Do you understand the differences in the GT3 and the Waterboiler C2S... If not do a search. You will buy the GT3. If you need a little convincing go drive them back to back. They will feel like two different car companies built them....
I Started with a C2S, tried to make the same argument you are. In the end I lost about $40k and love my GT3....
Good luck.. GT3 GT3...
#52
03-02-2010 | 12:50 AM
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Actually, if you get a GT3, you'll need to do the same things with brakes and wheels as you would with a C2S. Stock GT3 pads aren't up to the track, nor is the fluid. Rotors wear just the same and I replaced my GT3 rotors on the same schedule as my C2S. Same with wheels, in fact the GT3 wheels are worse than the C2S ones because they are actually the heaviest wheels Porsche makes. Same with the tires on the GT3 - Faux Cups. Finally, you'll still need to align the suspension.
In a nut shell, the only thing differently you need to do with a C2S is lower control arms, which ran me something like $1300 with alignment, so an added cost of $1100 over just an alignment with the GT3.
In a nut shell, the only thing differently you need to do with a C2S is lower control arms, which ran me something like $1300 with alignment, so an added cost of $1100 over just an alignment with the GT3.
What about the Tranny... Race VS. Street.
How about the killer Alloy hood and doors...
Do I need to go on.
You are the one and only person I have ran into that would ever choose a 997S over a GT3....
GT3... Way more car for the money, street or track...
#53
03-03-2010 | 08:22 AM
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You are right about all those advantages of the GT3. Just went to local dealer and looked at 2010 on the floor (sold) but just to refresh. Awesome.
But, it's pressure from gearheads like you that got Porsche to take out the back seats and eliminate the sunroof with no option for the consumer. This is a summer sports car, a race car for the street. If I wanted a real race car, I'd buy a cup car (I can afford it). Sunroof and backseats should be optional.
The car is uniquely fantastic but on a hot summer day, far away from the track, I'm hoping that the sweet engine roar, stiff suspension, and pure rush of the GT3 visceral experience is enough. Hopefully it mitigates the fact that I can't enjoy a nice summer afternoon with the sunroof open, with my 10 month old in his car seat in the back joining me for a spin downtown.
Feeling me now?
But, it's pressure from gearheads like you that got Porsche to take out the back seats and eliminate the sunroof with no option for the consumer. This is a summer sports car, a race car for the street. If I wanted a real race car, I'd buy a cup car (I can afford it). Sunroof and backseats should be optional.
The car is uniquely fantastic but on a hot summer day, far away from the track, I'm hoping that the sweet engine roar, stiff suspension, and pure rush of the GT3 visceral experience is enough. Hopefully it mitigates the fact that I can't enjoy a nice summer afternoon with the sunroof open, with my 10 month old in his car seat in the back joining me for a spin downtown.
Feeling me now?
#54
03-03-2010 | 08:57 AM
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In less than 1 year I went from a stock '06 C2S Cab to '09 Turbo to '10 GT3 and recently now to an '09 C2S coupe.
You mention you have the financial means to afford this stuff, including a cup car. Therefore, buy the 2010 GT3 for you, and take the kids for ice cream in another ride of yours...or...complement the GT3 with a fun ride for the kids.
Or do what I did...car hop...it's a lot of fun.
BTW, you can get a C2S close to a GT3 in terms of track performance. You can't, however, replicate the visceral experience of the GT3. I bought the GT3 strictly for the visceral experience. It was fun, but like most things that are just things, it wears off.
The C2S with my present modding will do just fine (for now)
You mention you have the financial means to afford this stuff, including a cup car. Therefore, buy the 2010 GT3 for you, and take the kids for ice cream in another ride of yours...or...complement the GT3 with a fun ride for the kids.
Or do what I did...car hop...it's a lot of fun.
BTW, you can get a C2S close to a GT3 in terms of track performance. You can't, however, replicate the visceral experience of the GT3. I bought the GT3 strictly for the visceral experience. It was fun, but like most things that are just things, it wears off.
The C2S with my present modding will do just fine (for now)
#55
03-03-2010 | 03:50 PM
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^agree 100% with Taylor.
you said you can afford a cup car, then I don't see what opinion you are expecting from us.
get both C2S and GT3, also add a Cayenne Turbo just in case.
that's what I did.
N.B. just re-read your post, you want a fast, raw sport car with open air motoring, sounds like you should be looking at a Carrera GT instead.
you said you can afford a cup car, then I don't see what opinion you are expecting from us.
get both C2S and GT3, also add a Cayenne Turbo just in case.
that's what I did.
N.B. just re-read your post, you want a fast, raw sport car with open air motoring, sounds like you should be looking at a Carrera GT instead.
Last edited by Targa Tim; 03-03-2010 at 03:53 PM.
#56
03-03-2010 | 04:03 PM
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You missed the point. I was responding to RS197 who said I was the only person he knew that would choose a C2S over a GT3. Way more money for the street or track. I was saying that I don't care about the track. If I did, I'd get a cup car, not a regular GT3. I'm annoyed that the sunroof is gone from the GT3 and the thing doesn't have any back seats even as an option. That's all for weight for the track. But I do want the rest of it.
I'm only buying one car as I have enough toys. Looking for your opinion as to which is the best one. Sounds like the GT3 but you've got to live without the sunroof and backseats. That's the decision.
NOTHING looks cooler than a 2010 GT3. NOTHING....and not even a turbo.
I'll probably just have to get over the practical elements of the C2S to have the baddest car in town. Almost embarrassing. But every once in awhile you just have to have a big set. :))
I'm only buying one car as I have enough toys. Looking for your opinion as to which is the best one. Sounds like the GT3 but you've got to live without the sunroof and backseats. That's the decision.
NOTHING looks cooler than a 2010 GT3. NOTHING....and not even a turbo.
I'll probably just have to get over the practical elements of the C2S to have the baddest car in town. Almost embarrassing. But every once in awhile you just have to have a big set. :
))
#57
03-03-2010 | 05:06 PM
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What about the engine.... GT3 VS 997S.... Race motor Vs. Street motor...
What about the Tranny... Race VS. Street.
How about the killer Alloy hood and doors...
Do I need to go on.
You are the one and only person I have ran into that would ever choose a 997S over a GT3....
GT3... Way more car for the money, street or track...
What about the Tranny... Race VS. Street.
How about the killer Alloy hood and doors...
Do I need to go on.
You are the one and only person I have ran into that would ever choose a 997S over a GT3....
GT3... Way more car for the money, street or track...
#58
03-03-2010 | 05:20 PM
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You missed the point. I was responding to RS197 who said I was the only person he knew that would choose a C2S over a GT3. Way more money for the street or track. I was saying that I don't care about the track. If I did, I'd get a cup car, not a regular GT3. I'm annoyed that the sunroof is gone from the GT3 and the thing doesn't have any back seats even as an option. That's all for weight for the track. But I do want the rest of it.
I'm only buying one car as I have enough toys. Looking for your opinion as to which is the best one. Sounds like the GT3 but you've got to live without the sunroof and backseats. That's the decision.
NOTHING looks cooler than a 2010 GT3. NOTHING....and not even a turbo.
I'll probably just have to get over the practical elements of the C2S to have the baddest car in town. Almost embarrassing. But every once in awhile you just have to have a big set. :))
I'm only buying one car as I have enough toys. Looking for your opinion as to which is the best one. Sounds like the GT3 but you've got to live without the sunroof and backseats. That's the decision.
NOTHING looks cooler than a 2010 GT3. NOTHING....and not even a turbo.
I'll probably just have to get over the practical elements of the C2S to have the baddest car in town. Almost embarrassing. But every once in awhile you just have to have a big set. :
))You actually want a GT3 with 4 seats and sunroof, but it is not available.
The closest will be a modded turbo.
Good luck in your search.
#60
03-04-2010 | 09:08 PM
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TriSilver,
I would usually push for the GT3, however you mentioned some keywords: summer nights, ice cream and child = C2S. It WILL bother you (unless you're selfish, like moi) when you can't take the family for a ride. I'd remove resale from the equation because both cars will be disappointing. There aren't too many true sports cars that offer seating for four...so what if they're tiny!
I would usually push for the GT3, however you mentioned some keywords: summer nights, ice cream and child = C2S. It WILL bother you (unless you're selfish, like moi) when you can't take the family for a ride. I'd remove resale from the equation because both cars will be disappointing. There aren't too many true sports cars that offer seating for four...so what if they're tiny!
Last edited by jmla; 03-04-2010 at 09:59 PM.