Oh, my bad, I thought it was SMG II in the M5's etc.

I know the M5 manual was an afterthought and if I'm not mistaken the result of some lawsuits because BMW tried not to even release a manual.

However that is not what I'm talking about, they think the SMG is superior to any manual shifter, I've been down that road with those guys and they have drank the kool-aid. A proper manual would still be faster than the SMG in a decent drivers hands. The SMG isn't smooth at all, and really doesn't shift all that fast.

Newsflash........

The system you are talking about:

IS NOT A REAL SEQUENTIAL!!!!!!

It's just a manual with paddles (or sequential shifter ****)

You still have to lift OFF the gas, and push in the clutch!!! How is that faster? Please explain........

This is not the same system in a cup car, so let's not try to play that card. It does not have dog ring/straight cut gearing, does not have engine braking which are the things that set a Cup sequential apart from a street manual.

This.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwiEj...eature=channel


Does not compare to this...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SO0I...rom=PL&index=9


Let everyone judge for themselves if they think the RSS is really that much, or at all faster than the H pattern when you are doing all of the same things to shift it. I can assure you that myself along with a ton of other guys on this site can shift that fast OR MUCH FASTER with a regular H pattern shifter.

That is all I'm saying. The RSS is not inherently faster at shifting like the PDK would be.

 

heavychevy, once again spoken by someone with no personal experience with the system. and i specifically said it is not a sequential manual gearbox, i.e., cup car. the system is a sequential shifter only. i am not sure how you would like me to explain how it is faster so that you might understand and believe that faster is faster. this is not a theoritical issue, it is real world experience. like i said, perhaps you should spend time in one before making uninformed statements.

and why exactly do you bring up the cup sequential manual gearbox as if i stated that this system was the same? does this make you feel better about yourself, when i never compared the two except to specifically differentiate the two?

and where did you come up with the "fact" that my car does not have engine braking?? that comment is certainly out of the blue so inaccurate as to not need further comment.

trust me, i wish you were located close by so that i could show you how fast the system shifts vs the H pattern so we could do away with all of this typing.

time to stop with the bombs, at least until you get some real experience with this. then let's discuss again.

thanks

 

I don't need to experience it to know its no faster than H pattern with a short shifter. Anyone can look at the video and SEE that. You trying to coax everyone into trying one won't overrule what we can see with our own eyes. It's the exact same process to shift. There is nothing happening faster.

It looks cool, I'll give you that, and reduces chance to money shift. That's about it. You can preach experience all day, but there is always a reason for difference in shift speeds and this unit has none over a manual.

Like I said, let everyone judge for themselves, I'm not interested.

 

getting back to PDK in a GT3...

speaking from experience (my old porsche was stick) i am kind of indifferent about PDK and its "comfort" in traffic or everyday driving, perhaps in los angeles things are different but I can't stand the shift patterns of PDK. When you barely graze over 3- 4 thousand rpms in automatic mode the car preps to blast off and wont upshift. I wish I had driven the PDK longer, went with c4 instead of a gt3 because I thought PDK would be more practical and fun, but from the herky jerkiness of stop and go la traffic driving, the feeling of the car about to stall before moving to 4 mph and to the constant smell of a burning clutch after you leave it in the garage after not being driven hard at all has left me with quite a bitter taste of PDK and its excitement or "acclaim"...

 

SMG III shifts at 65ms, the fastest a human can shift is 5x that. Someone certainly is on the kool-aid...

 

I have to lay off Forza 3, that is the same track as in the game isnt it?

 

PDK, DSG, SST and DCT all shift way faster than that and other than launch control none of them have proven to be much faster if any than their manual counterparts, be it 1/4 mile, road course or whatever. Other than launch control, they aren't any faster.

When you're done reading the manufacturer claims on their products and actually looking at the results, then you'll see the aftertaste of the kool-aid isn't all that.

 

If this is your take on this, and you confident that there is no advantage in using PDK, DSG, SST, DCT over manual transmission, why don’t you write a letter to the F1 and WRC car constructors and tell them to go back to manual transmission in there new cars because a manual transmission in your opinion is so much more proven, reliable and fast.
You know to them every millisecond lost in race makes a huge difference. .

 

Yawn Same old nonsense.



Not in a DE in a street car it doesn't. And how many people plan to race their PDK?

When have you had to shift 80-120 times a lap for 2 hours straight like an F1 car?

Or when have you had to shift while airborn around a blind corner with a row of trees or mountain cliff next to you.

Sorry but doing mid-pack to slow times at your local DE or driving to starbucks doesn't meet the criteria. And is not faster with everything being electronically controlled and programmed for protection first and then speed. Not quite the same thing.

 

If that’s your logic, then why don’t we go back to manual four speed like in the seventies with long gears and heavy manual clutch. You see over the past eighty years manual transmission gat better,-hydraulics, more gears and advance synchronizers-
For someone living in the seventies using today’s 6 speed manual transmission would be far to complicated for every day driving.
In twenty years from now the six speed manual transmission will be dead.
I driven cars with manual transmissions for over twenty years straight (two years in rally competition- Fiat Abarth 131) then got the 360 with F1 transmission, M5 with SMG,AMG 63 with new seven speed ,number of P-cars with 6 speed and tip., over forty cars and still canting
To get a truth perspective and understanding one need to experience all possibilities not just theories

 

- Gear ratio's are not the issue, you can get the same gear ratios in a Manual that you can a PDK.

- Number of gears is not the issue either, more shorter gears are good for acceleration, but more shifts cost you more time.

- Manual transmissions have been advanced, and if you paid any attention I've clearly said that, and from that point electro gearboxes haven't proven to be significantly faster than the advancements in the mechanical manual gearboxes. So if you are trying to suggest this is the natural progression you are COMPLETELY wrong.

- You couldn't be more wrong that using a 6 speed today is more complicated that years past. They had no sychromesh and had to learn to double clutch every time they shifted. How is that easier again? Driving a manual today is tons easier than it used to be.

- I'm the one here that's disproving the theories and false claims that this superfast shift mobiles aren't worth what people think they are, that is not theory, I've provided PROOF!!! What have you got????

 

You are the one who is saying 6 speed manual is better ,based on this I mentioned the four speed that is even less complicated to operate ,you should understand that,

Once again, I would suggest to you sending “your proofs” to F1, DTM and WRC team’s engineers so they can use it. You should be a very rich man shortly with all that “6 speed manual proof” and superiority. Congratulations and good lack to you

 

When we drive F1, WRC and DTM cars on the street and at local track days I may consider that.

But until then I will let the FACTS AND RESULTS CONCERNING STREET CARS tide me over.

The only letters I need are the ones from the results showing the manual is as fast as the street electro sequentials which are hardly one the same level as an F1 transmission, or DTM or WRC RACING SEQUENTIAL.

 

My friend please don’t take it wrong, but the Ferrari, Lamborghini, Spayker, Porsche Nissan, and a number of other car companies that use now new advance transmission are all street cars.
You think that those cars are all factory mistakes because of the PDK, SMG, F1 or other transmission they use.
I love Porsche cars, had 87 930t, 88 944 ts,96 993t, 03 996tt x50, 04 Cayenne tt, 08 997tt but i'm not saying they are the best on the street or track .

 

Why are you changing the subject, I don't think any of the automated manuals are worth what the manufacturers claim in terms of performance.

They very well could be worth it in drive line safety, emissions efficiency, and drivetrain loss efficiency. But that needs to be tested as well to confirm.

Who said they were mistakes, the transmissions in those cars suit the people who drive them and I would take a PDK type transmission 1,000,000 times before a Tiptronic or Torque Converter Auto.

What I am saying is that NONE of those cars is a GT3, and only ONE (other than Porsche) races it's street cars in the same way as Porsche. True street chassis GT racing. That would be Ferrari, even Audi doesn't do much of it.

So why then should Porsche follow when it's the leader and there is no benefit to racing, heritage or significantly at all in performance to garner such a move. PDK belongs where it is with Porsche, in TTs, Carreras, Caymans and Panamera's.

Does not need to be in a GT3.