Any PCCB heavy track users?
#46
02-13-2010, 02:37 PM
So... It turns out that the pads were the OEM original pads that the Car comes with, but they had chunked.... Here is Craig's reply to me:
"AH yes the P90 pads – the pads which chunk – OEM PCCB pads which are painted yellow but are not Pagid Yellows, per se"
So... I am lucky that I checked and didn't track them, or I might have ruined my PCCB rotors...
"AH yes the P90 pads – the pads which chunk – OEM PCCB pads which are painted yellow but are not Pagid Yellows, per se"
So... I am lucky that I checked and didn't track them, or I might have ruined my PCCB rotors...
#47
02-15-2010, 11:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rocklin, California
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Hey Graham
Thanks for looking up the parts number on the brake pads. My head hurts from all the research on possible PCCB combinations. Here is what I gather:
P50 suitable for track and they are the same as Pagid RS15 pads
P40 OEM PCCB pads from factory for street and same as Pagid RS14 pads
P90 found on Generation I PCCB for 996 and same as Pagid RS19
Here is the friction vs temperature graph for various Pagid pads:
Notice how much more friction RS 15 generate compare with all other pads. It generate the highest friction per temperature hence used in motorsport racing but not the favor for endurance due to excessive wear on rotor. Pagid RS29 are the pad of choice for endurance.
Here is the description of each pads from Pagid:
RS 14 Black
Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650°C (1,200°F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .
RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700ºC (1,300ºF). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.
RS 19 Yellow
Best compound for endurance racing on the basis of the RS14. A slight reduction of the friction value improves the modulation (controllability). Nevertheless, the friction value is enough for cars without power-assisted brake system and ensures comfortable low effort on the brake pedal. Constant temperatures up to 600°C (1,100°F) are possible. The combination of friction value, fading stability and low wear rates on pads and discs (rotors) realised with this material is unmatched up to now. Due to its excellent release characteristics and controllability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. A multiple winner of Daytona 24h, Le Mans 24h, Sebring 12h, Spa 24 h, Nürburgring 24h, often with no pad change and usually no disc (rotor) change. Application: All endurance racing cars from Group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
RS 29 Yellow
RS29 combines the outstanding wear rate of the RS19 with a slightly higher coefficient of friction and initial bite. Due to its excellent driveability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. Application: All endurance racing cars from group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
It is recommended to change out P50 pads when not on street as not to wear out PCCB to avoid having your rotors look like this:
Many have used Pagid RS29 for both street and track with good success for several years going through several sets of RS29 pads including NJ-GT and GlennMc on rennlist. I have an extra set of RS29 and will give it a try soon.
Thanks for looking up the parts number on the brake pads. My head hurts from all the research on possible PCCB combinations. Here is what I gather:
P50 suitable for track and they are the same as Pagid RS15 pads
P40 OEM PCCB pads from factory for street and same as Pagid RS14 pads
P90 found on Generation I PCCB for 996 and same as Pagid RS19
Here is the friction vs temperature graph for various Pagid pads:
Notice how much more friction RS 15 generate compare with all other pads. It generate the highest friction per temperature hence used in motorsport racing but not the favor for endurance due to excessive wear on rotor. Pagid RS29 are the pad of choice for endurance.
Here is the description of each pads from Pagid:
RS 14 Black
Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650°C (1,200°F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .
RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700ºC (1,300ºF). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.
RS 19 Yellow
Best compound for endurance racing on the basis of the RS14. A slight reduction of the friction value improves the modulation (controllability). Nevertheless, the friction value is enough for cars without power-assisted brake system and ensures comfortable low effort on the brake pedal. Constant temperatures up to 600°C (1,100°F) are possible. The combination of friction value, fading stability and low wear rates on pads and discs (rotors) realised with this material is unmatched up to now. Due to its excellent release characteristics and controllability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. A multiple winner of Daytona 24h, Le Mans 24h, Sebring 12h, Spa 24 h, Nürburgring 24h, often with no pad change and usually no disc (rotor) change. Application: All endurance racing cars from Group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
RS 29 Yellow
RS29 combines the outstanding wear rate of the RS19 with a slightly higher coefficient of friction and initial bite. Due to its excellent driveability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. Application: All endurance racing cars from group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
It is recommended to change out P50 pads when not on street as not to wear out PCCB to avoid having your rotors look like this:
Many have used Pagid RS29 for both street and track with good success for several years going through several sets of RS29 pads including NJ-GT and GlennMc on rennlist. I have an extra set of RS29 and will give it a try soon.
Last edited by mikymu; 02-16-2010 at 10:00 AM.
#48
02-15-2010, 12:03 PM
Hey Graham
Thanks for looking up the parts number on the brake pads. My head hurts from all the research on possible PCCB combinations. Here is what I gather:
P50 suitable for track and they are the same as Pagid RS15 pads
P40 for street and same as Pagid RS14 pads
P90 found on Generation I PCCB for 996 and same as Pagid RS19
Here is the friction vs temperature graph for various Pagid pads:
Notice how much more friction RS 15 generate compare with all other pads. It generate the highest friction per temperature hence used in motorsport racing but not the favor for endurance due to excessive wear on rotor. Pagid RS29 are the pad of choice for endurance.
Here is the description of each pads from Pagid:
RS 14 Black
Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650°C (1,200°F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .
RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700ºC (1,300ºF). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.
RS 19 Yellow
Best compound for endurance racing on the basis of the RS14. A slight reduction of the friction value improves the modulation (controllability). Nevertheless, the friction value is enough for cars without power-assisted brake system and ensures comfortable low effort on the brake pedal. Constant temperatures up to 600°C (1,100°F) are possible. The combination of friction value, fading stability and low wear rates on pads and discs (rotors) realised with this material is unmatched up to now. Due to its excellent release characteristics and controllability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. A multiple winner of Daytona 24h, Le Mans 24h, Sebring 12h, Spa 24 h, Nürburgring 24h, often with no pad change and usually no disc (rotor) change. Application: All endurance racing cars from Group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
RS 29 Yellow
RS29 combines the outstanding wear rate of the RS19 with a slightly higher coefficient of friction and initial bite. Due to its excellent driveability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. Application: All endurance racing cars from group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
It is recommended that to change out P50 pads when not on street as not to wear out PCCB to avoid to have your rotors look like this:
Many have used Pagid RS29 for both street and track with good success for several years going through several sets of RS29 pads including NJ-GT and GlennMc on rennlist. I hav an extra set of RS29 and will give it a try soon.
Thanks for looking up the parts number on the brake pads. My head hurts from all the research on possible PCCB combinations. Here is what I gather:
P50 suitable for track and they are the same as Pagid RS15 pads
P40 for street and same as Pagid RS14 pads
P90 found on Generation I PCCB for 996 and same as Pagid RS19
Here is the friction vs temperature graph for various Pagid pads:
Notice how much more friction RS 15 generate compare with all other pads. It generate the highest friction per temperature hence used in motorsport racing but not the favor for endurance due to excessive wear on rotor. Pagid RS29 are the pad of choice for endurance.
Here is the description of each pads from Pagid:
RS 14 Black
Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650°C (1,200°F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .
RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700ºC (1,300ºF). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.
RS 19 Yellow
Best compound for endurance racing on the basis of the RS14. A slight reduction of the friction value improves the modulation (controllability). Nevertheless, the friction value is enough for cars without power-assisted brake system and ensures comfortable low effort on the brake pedal. Constant temperatures up to 600°C (1,100°F) are possible. The combination of friction value, fading stability and low wear rates on pads and discs (rotors) realised with this material is unmatched up to now. Due to its excellent release characteristics and controllability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. A multiple winner of Daytona 24h, Le Mans 24h, Sebring 12h, Spa 24 h, Nürburgring 24h, often with no pad change and usually no disc (rotor) change. Application: All endurance racing cars from Group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
RS 29 Yellow
RS29 combines the outstanding wear rate of the RS19 with a slightly higher coefficient of friction and initial bite. Due to its excellent driveability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. Application: All endurance racing cars from group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).
It is recommended that to change out P50 pads when not on street as not to wear out PCCB to avoid to have your rotors look like this:
Many have used Pagid RS29 for both street and track with good success for several years going through several sets of RS29 pads including NJ-GT and GlennMc on rennlist. I hav an extra set of RS29 and will give it a try soon.
BTW, great info. Thanks.
#49
02-15-2010, 01:52 PM
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Location: Rocklin, California
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Yeah, change out P50 to P40 or other less aggressive pads for street since P50 has the highest coefficient of friction among Pagid pads. It will help your PCCB last longer
#51
02-15-2010, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rocklin, California
Posts: 1,120
Rep Power: 132 I forgot how much it cost but very reasonable
#52
02-15-2010, 04:09 PM
I too got my Girodisc spreaders from Craig at Rennstore...
#54
02-15-2010, 11:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rocklin, California
Posts: 1,120
Rep Power: 132 
#56
03-12-2010, 06:16 PM
anyone have a factory 2 pc hat they can temporarily spare or sell. I need one for mock up on a 996TT
#57
03-13-2010, 02:03 AM
What I have seen so far on the Internet and on some of the Porsche Forums is people who have heard something from a friend that knows someone whose cousin used PPCB's and his car exploded, so you should NEVER use PCCB's because.. etc, etc.. The number of people who HAVE actually used these brakes is a VERY small subset of POrsche owners and they fall into a couple of groups.. Those that ran the first gen PCCB's at the track with stock pads and did indeed have issues due to the stock pads being too soft for track work.. they overheated, chunks fell out of them and they damaged the rotors through a combination of overheating in some areas and actual physical damage from the chunks being pushed into the rotors by the rest of the pads. The other group, has done their research, gone with the Porsche Motorsports recommended pads, bled their brakes THOROUGHLY, bedded the pads in correctly and have gone on to do many successful track days.
That said, it seem that the 997 PCCBs are a marked improvement over previous versions, with my friends who have those reporting no problems so far. The increased size rotor, with bigger wheels and the rotor re-designs seem to have massively improved cooling. GlenMc who is referenced on here has done 50-100 trackdays on his PCCBs without problem and he has won class in Carrera Cup a few times now, so is not slow.
#58
03-13-2010, 12:15 PM
My 996 GT2 destroyed it's first set of PCCBs in 9,000 miles, the second lasted a similar amount of time, before going to Performance Friction Steel rotors. The car was run only on Pagid RS29s with warm-up and cool-down N.B. MY OWN CAR - REAL FACTS!. I have another very good friend who had a similar experience in his 996GT2 and a third friend who toasted his CGT PCCBs and he is an excellent driver, who has previously raced Porsches.
That said, it seem that the 997 PCCBs are a marked improvement over previous versions, with my friends who have those reporting no problems so far. The increased size rotor, with bigger wheels and the rotor re-designs seem to have massively improved cooling. GlenMc who is referenced on here has done 50-100 trackdays on his PCCBs without problem and he has won class in Carrera Cup a few times now, so is not slow.
That said, it seem that the 997 PCCBs are a marked improvement over previous versions, with my friends who have those reporting no problems so far. The increased size rotor, with bigger wheels and the rotor re-designs seem to have massively improved cooling. GlenMc who is referenced on here has done 50-100 trackdays on his PCCBs without problem and he has won class in Carrera Cup a few times now, so is not slow.
Strange issue really...
Nice to meet another GT2 owner. How often do you track the Car? Also, what year is your Car? First or second Gen PCCB's?
I'm Scottish BTW (from Crail) and a transplant to San Francisco..
Cheers..
Last edited by 80shilling; 03-13-2010 at 01:10 PM.
