New to Forum. New to Porsche- making the move ///M...
#46
06-17-2010, 03:59 AM
It is VERY close. Here's all three driven by the same driver on the same track. http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
7.40 -New Gt3
7.42 - Old Gt3
7.50 -997S
A PDK 997s besting an 07 GT3
7.40 -New Gt3
7.42 - Old Gt3
7.50 -997S
#47
06-17-2010, 04:15 AM
This statement is not true. For 997.2, No changes to suspension. Only minor increase in displacement (500 more RPMs) and cosmetics (LEDs, center-lock wheels, etc.). Otherwise, same car handling wise. The .1 can be bored up to 4.0 liters with higher rev limit (BBI has 4.0 and Sharkwerks has 3.9 conversions). One can get a .1 GT3 and with the $50K in savings have a significantly better car than a stock .2. I have a modded .1 RS that will out-handle (turn faster laps) then any stock .2 GT3 and RS. And with the proper ECU tune and exhaust (30+ HP to wheels) can hold its own in a straight line vs. .2 as well (vs. stock).
.1 vs. .2 GT3 changes are minor. Now .1 vs. .2 RS, that is more of a genuine change/improvement. In this case, a modded .1 can beat (on a track) a stock .2 RS. However, in both cases (regular GT3 and RS), an equally modded .2 will definitely beat a .1 (basically due to higher baseline/starting HP). If you want pure straight line speed, get a turbo or GT2. GT3 as track/handling cars.
Now I am not suggesting you get a .1 and mod it. Since you are new to Porsche and if you have the $ and want a GT3, then you should snag a .2. If $ is an issue, a .1 is more than a fine intro into P-cars. And honestly, most here don't or won't push their cars enough to even know the true limits of the GT3/RS (and I don't mean in a straight line.. anyone can go straight). So if this is you, a .1 is more than enough car, even stock. And if you push your driving to levels that require more power and better handling for a few seconds off your lap time, both cars (.1 or .2) offer plenty of room for improvement.
As for Turbo. That is a better daily driver and offer more straight line speed. It will do track duty and be fast. However, it lacks a pure connection with the driver and thus is not as exciting to drive.. even on the street. But really, only you can decide what is best for you. Either way, both car are excellent for their purpose.
.1 vs. .2 GT3 changes are minor. Now .1 vs. .2 RS, that is more of a genuine change/improvement. In this case, a modded .1 can beat (on a track) a stock .2 RS. However, in both cases (regular GT3 and RS), an equally modded .2 will definitely beat a .1 (basically due to higher baseline/starting HP). If you want pure straight line speed, get a turbo or GT2. GT3 as track/handling cars.
Now I am not suggesting you get a .1 and mod it. Since you are new to Porsche and if you have the $ and want a GT3, then you should snag a .2. If $ is an issue, a .1 is more than a fine intro into P-cars. And honestly, most here don't or won't push their cars enough to even know the true limits of the GT3/RS (and I don't mean in a straight line.. anyone can go straight). So if this is you, a .1 is more than enough car, even stock. And if you push your driving to levels that require more power and better handling for a few seconds off your lap time, both cars (.1 or .2) offer plenty of room for improvement.
As for Turbo. That is a better daily driver and offer more straight line speed. It will do track duty and be fast. However, it lacks a pure connection with the driver and thus is not as exciting to drive.. even on the street. But really, only you can decide what is best for you. Either way, both car are excellent for their purpose.
1) For starters the car hasn't gained weight AND has a 3.8 instead of 3.6 . That's 20 HP .
2) The suspension is not the same. There is an increased front spring rate and size of the rear anti roll bar.
3) The front brakes are now 15 in and rears are 13.8 and the aluminum hubs eliminate 5lbs on the non ceramic cars.
4) Stability control also comes on the 2010
5) Center lock wheels --one bolt instead of 5 reducing more weight
6) Huge aerokit improvements with vertical slits reducing engine heat -not to forget mentioning it's beautiful and leaps and bounds above the taco chip . In fact downforce is a huge improvement on the new car.
These two cars are NOT the same . Beefier, improved handling, better braking, unsprung weight in the specific places , cooler engine , and even better looking.
The new Gt3 blows away the old car .
One last thing --the Turbo is not boring to drive on the street . The ideal setup is to have both cars .. because the strength of one compliments the other and visa versa .
Last edited by yrralis1; 06-17-2010 at 04:26 AM.
#48
06-17-2010, 07:26 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Gualala, Ca.
Age: 78
Posts: 752
Rep Power: 94 
Yes I do remember and have been following your thread with great interest! The offer to come drive my car still stands if you think it will help in your decision. Come over to the coast and we will go for a ride/drive so you can feel the potential of the 3.9. I will be gone all this weekend but returning Monday. The extra $38K will give you one very nice car when added to the .1 GT3!! ( just so you know how I would vote)
#49
06-17-2010, 07:33 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Gualala, Ca.
Age: 78
Posts: 752
Rep Power: 94 It is VERY close. Here's all three driven by the same driver on the same track. http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
7.40 -New Gt3
7.42 - Old Gt3
7.50 -997S
7.40 -New Gt3
7.42 - Old Gt3
7.50 -997S
#50
06-17-2010, 09:45 AM
.
3) The front brakes are now 15 in and rears are 13.8 and the aluminum hubs eliminate 5lbs on the non ceramic cars.
5) Center lock wheels --one bolt instead of 5 reducing more weight
6) Huge aerokit improvements with vertical slits reducing engine heat -not to forget mentioning it's beautiful and leaps and bounds above the taco chip . In fact downforce is a huge improvement on the new car.
The new Gt3 blows away the old car .
3) The front brakes are now 15 in and rears are 13.8 and the aluminum hubs eliminate 5lbs on the non ceramic cars.
5) Center lock wheels --one bolt instead of 5 reducing more weight
6) Huge aerokit improvements with vertical slits reducing engine heat -not to forget mentioning it's beautiful and leaps and bounds above the taco chip . In fact downforce is a huge improvement on the new car.
The new Gt3 blows away the old car .
Point 5 this is not true. Centerlock weigh more. Check with Tech1 Alloys for the facts.
Point 6 do you have datalog proof of such statements? How much cooler does the .2 GT3 engine run than the .1 GT3?
Anyway nevermind who cares. These points are frivolous but since you brought them.
Ranger
#51
06-17-2010, 09:57 AM
Registered User
Wow on the thread revive! 
Update for me now is I'm so torn between the 2007 GT3(the model I described in my past post) and between a 2010 GT3 that just arrived on the dealer lot as a pre-owned vehicle with only 1500 miles! funny how I went back to the dealer to talk numbers for the .1 GT3 then the salesman shows me the 2010 Gt3 that they literally just received prior to me arriving on the lot as a lease trade in from a retired dentist whose wife disliked the car. He swapped out for a Panarema Turbo...
This is where I'm at due to a "slight" pricing issue- if you could call it that..
the .1 Gt3 w/ 7xxx miles is priced at $87K. .The 2Gt3 w/ only 1500 miles was at $125K (well optioned minus the front end/ride height lift system). that' s a price difference of at least $38K depending on the "final numbers"...
It's funny because I then read Laguna Dudes post.....
Update for me now is I'm so torn between the 2007 GT3(the model I described in my past post) and between a 2010 GT3 that just arrived on the dealer lot as a pre-owned vehicle with only 1500 miles! funny how I went back to the dealer to talk numbers for the .1 GT3 then the salesman shows me the 2010 Gt3 that they literally just received prior to me arriving on the lot as a lease trade in from a retired dentist whose wife disliked the car. He swapped out for a Panarema Turbo...
This is where I'm at due to a "slight" pricing issue- if you could call it that..
the .1 Gt3 w/ 7xxx miles is priced at $87K. .The 2Gt3 w/ only 1500 miles was at $125K (well optioned minus the front end/ride height lift system). that' s a price difference of at least $38K depending on the "final numbers"...
It's funny because I then read Laguna Dudes post.....
#53
06-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Point 5 - Center lock wheels do weight .5 lbs more than a 5 bolt, but the the centerlock components save a lot more weight in the hubs and other center lock components Vs 5 bolt components...
Reference (directly from an interview with Andreas Preuninger)
GT3 specific items were :
* A presentation of the survey results of the 996 and 997.1 GT3 owners - nothing really surprising here. 98% of owners are male, GT3RS owners prefer much more hardcore options than GT3 and want more things deleted, etc... I really cant remember most of it as there was about 30mins of facts and figures.
* A static display of the one and only right hand drive GT3 currently built. Andreas Preuninger presented the car and walked around it highlighting the improvements over the 997.1 GT3 parked next to it. He was then open to questions (see bit at the end).
* A slide show presentation by Andrea's sidekick - appologies but Ive forgotton his name. Several techincal slides on the various new items such as dynamic mounts, the front lift and the engine, suspension and brake improvements. There were static displays of the various new features including technical cut away's
* We were all given a 101 page hardback booklet on the new GT3, a 61 page UK price list with all the options and order no's. Please ask if there is anything you want to know about - Im afraid I cant scan the whole of each booklet though!!! The hardback booklet appears at first inspection to be identical to the GT3 PDF you can download on the UK site. The price list however is new material (to me at least) and includes all the items and UK prices of even the options not yet shown on the UK configurator. Sorry if this isnt much use to you guys in the US but at least I have all the order numbers and can say what is and isnt available.
I took a few pics and will post them if wanted, but to be honest with only 1 (red) car there there wasnt much new to see that you cant find on the internet somewhere else. It didnt have the front lift system fitted and the front lip was already quite badly damaged!
The car was very nice in the flesh I have to say and really looked the part. It looked everybit as beefy and nice as the 997.1 GT3 and looked overall refreshed and updated in the same way all gen2 cars do over gen1.
So on to the few facts I gathered from Andrea's Q&A session. (Many of the questions were RS biased as my group of 6 people had 3 RS deposit holders)
* There will be a 997.2 GT3RS - Andreas confirmed the car was already completed and would be announced soon.
* He said the RS will show a much more significant difference to the GT3 than the 997.1 GT3 did to the 997.1 GT3RS. He wouldnt be drawn on details but said the customer survey had show overwhelmingly that RS owners wanted far more differentiation and this is what they had done this time.
* The RS will be available in new colours but he wouldnt say what they were - other than the colours were new and some where "stealth colours". When pushed a little further he confirmed that Orange and Green will NOT be available, and when asked if "stealth" meant "matt black" he said "no, I dont like matt black and besides it is a very difficult colour to paint to porsche's high standards".
* The 997.2 red brakes are 2.4 kg lighter than the 997.1 red brakes despite being uprated. The was mainly down to the aluminium centre hubs.
* The 997.2 yellow brakes are 4.8kg lighter than the 997.1 yellow brakes despite being uprated. The was also mainly down to the aluminium centre hubs.
* The new centre lock wheels have no special security unique to each car so any key can be used to remove the wheels from any other GT3. However the wheels are tightned to 500Nm so Andreas believed this would prevent any normal criminals removing the wheels on the street.
* The new GT3 and RS exhausts are louder than the 997.1 cars. Although some people had asked for them to be made quieter to meet trackday regs in the UK, the overwhelming majority of owners wanted the cars to be louder.
* Aerodynamics now produce 100kg of downforce at 300kph - compared to 20kg of downforce on the 997.1. This 5x increase in downforce was largely pro-rata the same at any given speed.
* The 997.2 GT3 rear wing is mounted on a 997.1 GT3RS base - only the top wing differs.
* The new GT3 and RS will not feature a rear diffuser as there wasnt space for one under the car.
* When asked about disconnecting the "brown plug" on the PSE he stated that it was absolutely fine to do so (on GT3 and Carrera's) and caused no damage whatsoever to the engine - he even showed us how to do it on the GT3.1. He however pointed out that the alternative method of disconnecting the vaccum hose was extreemly bad for the engine as it damaged the integrity of the vaccum system which was used for other critical functions.
* errrrr.... cant remember much else but if anything comes to me I will post it here - feel free to ask and I'll see if I can remember if it was covered.
* A presentation of the survey results of the 996 and 997.1 GT3 owners - nothing really surprising here. 98% of owners are male, GT3RS owners prefer much more hardcore options than GT3 and want more things deleted, etc... I really cant remember most of it as there was about 30mins of facts and figures.
* A static display of the one and only right hand drive GT3 currently built. Andreas Preuninger presented the car and walked around it highlighting the improvements over the 997.1 GT3 parked next to it. He was then open to questions (see bit at the end).
* A slide show presentation by Andrea's sidekick - appologies but Ive forgotton his name. Several techincal slides on the various new items such as dynamic mounts, the front lift and the engine, suspension and brake improvements. There were static displays of the various new features including technical cut away's
* We were all given a 101 page hardback booklet on the new GT3, a 61 page UK price list with all the options and order no's. Please ask if there is anything you want to know about - Im afraid I cant scan the whole of each booklet though!!! The hardback booklet appears at first inspection to be identical to the GT3 PDF you can download on the UK site. The price list however is new material (to me at least) and includes all the items and UK prices of even the options not yet shown on the UK configurator. Sorry if this isnt much use to you guys in the US but at least I have all the order numbers and can say what is and isnt available.
I took a few pics and will post them if wanted, but to be honest with only 1 (red) car there there wasnt much new to see that you cant find on the internet somewhere else. It didnt have the front lift system fitted and the front lip was already quite badly damaged!
The car was very nice in the flesh I have to say and really looked the part. It looked everybit as beefy and nice as the 997.1 GT3 and looked overall refreshed and updated in the same way all gen2 cars do over gen1.
So on to the few facts I gathered from Andrea's Q&A session. (Many of the questions were RS biased as my group of 6 people had 3 RS deposit holders)
* There will be a 997.2 GT3RS - Andreas confirmed the car was already completed and would be announced soon.
* He said the RS will show a much more significant difference to the GT3 than the 997.1 GT3 did to the 997.1 GT3RS. He wouldnt be drawn on details but said the customer survey had show overwhelmingly that RS owners wanted far more differentiation and this is what they had done this time.
* The RS will be available in new colours but he wouldnt say what they were - other than the colours were new and some where "stealth colours". When pushed a little further he confirmed that Orange and Green will NOT be available, and when asked if "stealth" meant "matt black" he said "no, I dont like matt black and besides it is a very difficult colour to paint to porsche's high standards".
* The 997.2 red brakes are 2.4 kg lighter than the 997.1 red brakes despite being uprated. The was mainly down to the aluminium centre hubs.
* The 997.2 yellow brakes are 4.8kg lighter than the 997.1 yellow brakes despite being uprated. The was also mainly down to the aluminium centre hubs.
* The new centre lock wheels have no special security unique to each car so any key can be used to remove the wheels from any other GT3. However the wheels are tightned to 500Nm so Andreas believed this would prevent any normal criminals removing the wheels on the street.
* The new GT3 and RS exhausts are louder than the 997.1 cars. Although some people had asked for them to be made quieter to meet trackday regs in the UK, the overwhelming majority of owners wanted the cars to be louder.
* Aerodynamics now produce 100kg of downforce at 300kph - compared to 20kg of downforce on the 997.1. This 5x increase in downforce was largely pro-rata the same at any given speed.
* The 997.2 GT3 rear wing is mounted on a 997.1 GT3RS base - only the top wing differs.
* The new GT3 and RS will not feature a rear diffuser as there wasnt space for one under the car.
* When asked about disconnecting the "brown plug" on the PSE he stated that it was absolutely fine to do so (on GT3 and Carrera's) and caused no damage whatsoever to the engine - he even showed us how to do it on the GT3.1. He however pointed out that the alternative method of disconnecting the vaccum hose was extreemly bad for the engine as it damaged the integrity of the vaccum system which was used for other critical functions.
* errrrr.... cant remember much else but if anything comes to me I will post it here - feel free to ask and I'll see if I can remember if it was covered.
Full thread: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...uninger-2.html
Last edited by GT1; 06-17-2010 at 10:46 AM.
#54
06-17-2010, 10:53 AM
sorry to but in i cant find where to post a new thread i have never had a sports car and a m looking at 2 cars for my first one a 2006 corvette and a 2004 s4c Porsche witch is the better car and would you know witch one is faster off the line
cheers oldguy60
cheers oldguy60
#55
06-17-2010, 11:08 AM
how do you post a new thread
sorry to but in i cant find where to post a new thread i have never had a sports car and a m looking at 2 cars for my first one a 2006 corvette and a 2004 s4c Porsche witch is the better car and would you know witch one is faster off the line
cheers oldguy60
cheers oldguy60
#56
06-17-2010, 11:32 AM
Go to the Porsche 996 section or American Muscle section, and on the upper left corner, you will see a "New thread" button.
#57
06-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Green Valley, CA
Posts: 124
Rep Power: 20 Herson,
Yes I do remember and have been following your thread with great interest! The offer to come drive my car still stands if you think it will help in your decision. Come over to the coast and we will go for a ride/drive so you can feel the potential of the 3.9. I will be gone all this weekend but returning Monday. The extra $38K will give you one very nice car when added to the .1 GT3!! ( just so you know how I would vote)
Yes I do remember and have been following your thread with great interest! The offer to come drive my car still stands if you think it will help in your decision. Come over to the coast and we will go for a ride/drive so you can feel the potential of the 3.9. I will be gone all this weekend but returning Monday. The extra $38K will give you one very nice car when added to the .1 GT3!! ( just so you know how I would vote)
Ralph, you are the man! Your offer is much appreciated! GT3 all the way for me now. I would probably take your offer only to convince myself to go for that Sharkwerks 3.9 phase. However, I don't think that will happen anytime soon. Thank You!
#58
06-17-2010, 10:37 PM
His other choice was a Turbo . Most of the guys on the Turbo forum expressed that it was "the one" . I chose the Gt3 based on what he described in what he wants . Both are great cars .
If 8 seconds is that tremendous .. you must have forgotten to look at the Turbo. It was the other car he had considered . It pulled 7.38 . A new one will do even better . http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
Not too shabbly for a car that's (paraphrasing) "boring"
Last edited by yrralis1; 06-17-2010 at 11:55 PM.
#59
06-18-2010, 11:04 PM
This is NOT true.
1) For starters the car hasn't gained weight AND has a 3.8 instead of 3.6 . That's 20 HP .
2) The suspension is not the same. There is an increased front spring rate and size of the rear anti roll bar.
3) The front brakes are now 15 in and rears are 13.8 and the aluminum hubs eliminate 5lbs on the non ceramic cars.
4) Stability control also comes on the 2010
5) Center lock wheels --one bolt instead of 5 reducing more weight
6) Huge aerokit improvements with vertical slits reducing engine heat -not to forget mentioning it's beautiful and leaps and bounds above the taco chip . In fact downforce is a huge improvement on the new car.
These two cars are NOT the same . Beefier, improved handling, better braking, unsprung weight in the specific places , cooler engine , and even better looking.
The new Gt3 blows away the old car .
One last thing --the Turbo is not boring to drive on the street . The ideal setup is to have both cars .. because the strength of one compliments the other and visa versa .
1) For starters the car hasn't gained weight AND has a 3.8 instead of 3.6 . That's 20 HP .
2) The suspension is not the same. There is an increased front spring rate and size of the rear anti roll bar.
3) The front brakes are now 15 in and rears are 13.8 and the aluminum hubs eliminate 5lbs on the non ceramic cars.
4) Stability control also comes on the 2010
5) Center lock wheels --one bolt instead of 5 reducing more weight
6) Huge aerokit improvements with vertical slits reducing engine heat -not to forget mentioning it's beautiful and leaps and bounds above the taco chip . In fact downforce is a huge improvement on the new car.
These two cars are NOT the same . Beefier, improved handling, better braking, unsprung weight in the specific places , cooler engine , and even better looking.
The new Gt3 blows away the old car .
One last thing --the Turbo is not boring to drive on the street . The ideal setup is to have both cars .. because the strength of one compliments the other and visa versa .
And I will argue all day. Turbos vs. GT3/RS is not as exciting to drive. One can only accelerate in a straight line so much. And a stock turbo is easy to get used to and that is when people mod them to 700hp. I think it comes down to what each wants in a car. I prefer race cars for the street. Other may want a pure street car like the Turbo. As I stated before, it's personal preference. No one is right in the GT3/RS vs. Turbo question.
#60
06-18-2010, 11:10 PM
I agree with you on this point. That is a very nice quiver of cars. I was going to get a new Turbo.. the new S.. as my daily. But decided to wait until the 998's. I ended up with an M3 to toss around and the old lady can drive it with the kids in child seats. But having both is IMO, a great setup.