I think the majority of the GT3 buyers don't get a GT3 to be the fastest. And I know a lot of them wouldn't own a 997 GT3 if it was PDK only.

 

Good point. But I am one of those guys who wants to drive as close to 10/10ths every time I'm on track. So, I will be OK with PDK.
Mr. B

 

I agree w kouz, shoulld be an option, but I don't think it will be. The PDK is better technically and that we can all agree on. Porsche to some degree is following Ferrari and lamborghini, there are no more manuals. I think not having manuals available will really help the value of older GT3 and RS cars, especially the guys like Chuck with a 4.0. I won't ever sell mine barring some catastrophe.

That being said, I don't buy the argument that PDk takes all the driving experience out of the car. If that were true, then you could argue that F1 drivers were all the same skill wise as their transmissions are not manual anymore. Clearly guys like Vettel and Alonso and Hamilton have skills, driving skills, that exceed the others. I track tested a 991S with PDK and was way faster than in my RS (embarrasingly). For me, taking away heel toe does remove part of the old experience, but it allows me more attention bandwidth to focus on other parts of driving like brake markers, trail braking, gear selection, line selection, cornering technique and puts me as an average driver in a better position to improve the other parts of the track experience. Just my two cents as an old bike racer.

 

I wonder how Porsche would respond to this...

"We didn't make this car to be fast, we made it to be fun." - doesn't sound very Porsche-like.

Awesome! I agree.

Besides, anybody watch the pro drivers of today? How many of them actually use the clutch pedal anymore? Was watching the Rolex race the other day, and one of the driver's (I think it was Dempsey's car, but other driver) didn't even lift the throttle while shifting. I thought flat foot shifting was an additional program needed (and I didn't think it was allowed). But it seems to be getting phased out everywhere.

Like I said before, it's personal preference, just as was using an electric typewriter, instead of the traditional manual typewriter.

 

I have recently acquired a mk 1 GT3 and have been on two different tracks here in the PNW with it. I am transitioning from driving my C4S PDK for two DE seasons now to the GT3 on the track. Lots of new skills and driving dynamic differences between these cars.
For me here in the NW the C4S is great for the rainy, cold weather. Having PDK in sport plus mode on the track is great in learning the line and being smooth. But the challenges of shifting/downshifting yourself and trying to rev match makes driving the GT3 more rewarding IMO. And wow the RSS exhaust....but I digress.. Personally I don't split hairs about lap times. For me, I try to improve and be better on every corner every lap and try to be consistent.
The GT3 is a lot more visceral which is why I sold my R888 Toyos on 18 Forgestars WB fitment that were on my C4S.
I may only track the C4s from here on out during rainy, cold weather if I feel the itch.

 

Nonsense.

So you are saying that because it has a manual it can't be fast? Remind me again which transmission is in the fastest production cars out right now.

Viper ACR
GT2 RS
ZR-1
Z07

It's more like Porsche saying "we aren't going to do everything for you, LEARN HOW TO DRIVE"

If going fast easy was Porsche's main goal, they would have abandoned the 911 a long time ago dontcha think?

 

Might boil down to warranty costs and consumer maintanence perceived costs since PDK has proven to be very reliable especially on the track where lots of drivers wear out clutch discs due to improper shifting.

 

lol! Dude, read the comments in context:
My response:
Basically responding that I don't think Porsche would proudly say "Look at the pinnacle of our racing technology. It's not fast, and not easy to drive, so you won't win, but you will have the most fun."

So tell me, then - why is Turbo S only offered in PDK?

Obviously, nobody here knows. But I'm interested in hearing someone's opinion about why this is.

And yes, I think Porsche is trying to make it easier. It's called engineering, and they do it quite well.

 

It seems that a lot of members, and GT3 owners, would not be happy if the 991 GT3 was PDK only. You would think that Porsche would realize this and keep it manual.

I mean the 997 GT3 sold well and it was manual only. There were competitors that offered both DCT and manual options but people still bought the GT3 even though it only came in manual. I guess the real question is: would the 997 GT3 have sold better if it was PDK only? And will the 991 sell better as PDK only vs. manual only.

If someone is already buying a car with stiff suspension, little noise insulation, and few luxury amenities would they really prefer PDK over manual?

 

I read the comments, and you are the one who is missing the point. The GT3 is not about ultimate speed, and anyone who knows Porsche knows this. It's about pure driving enjoyment. Race car feel for the street, similar to the real thing, which is why it's the model used for homologation.

A little common sense application would tell you that if Porsche wanted to tout it as the fastest 911, there wouldn't be a GT2, nor would they have an NA flat 6 cylinder engine powering it.

Making it easier is relative, GT-R easy? NO. Progressively easier than 964, 993, 996, 997 to go fast, yes.

Who cares about the Turbo S? Or the 997 Turbo at all when it comes to the track? Nobody. Irrelevant. They likely chose the PDK because it got the sub 3 second 0-60 numbers and was too small of a production number to produce both. And for the price of it, they had to sell something (i.e. PDK). Absolutely meaningless.

 

Because PDK is currently Porsche's engineering "high point" and represents their entrance into DCT transmissions which have recently become very popular. It's kind of like turbo charging in the 1980s, everyone was doing it and everyone wanted it to be known. It's the same reason Honda makes such a big deal about VTEC on their cars when a lot of people don't know what it is or don't care what it is. Plus almost every company has it but they usually don't talk about it, but when the company does talk about it it makes it seem like it is a bigger deal. When Porsche says something about PDK it makes more people want to try it.

Why is it on the Turbo S specifically?

Likely marketing, which Porsche is very good at. It makes PDK seem even better when people see that it is on one of the most expensive, fastest, and most sought after cars they make. It's the same reason companies compare DCT transmissions to sequential transmissions, it's the same reason Ferrari's gearbox is named "F1," and it's the same reason companies use "race bred" engineering on their cars: it makes people want to buy them.

And making the Turbo S PDK exclusive sets it apart from the GT series and further separated the "Turbo" brand from the Carrera and GT3/2 brands. It also allowed Porsche to showcase PDK on one their fastest cars, which of course improves the image of PDK.

Of course I don't work for Porsche so I can't say anything for certain.

 

I mentioned Turbo S, because you mentioned something about Porsche not caring about going fast - easy... I suggested a car that does just that - and almost "GT-R easy" (I like the term you used).

I've driven the GT3, and thoroughly enjoyed it (almost as much as the Cayman S). I understand the capabilities of the car. I see the point you are echoing (just as others have stated). But I just disagree that Porsche would proudly say the same thing you are - "that speed is not the point of our race-bred GT3". I completely agree that it serves a wonderful purpose, and is an amazing car. And I even agree with what you're saying about the car itself.

I just disagree that this is the 'official' Porsche position.

Wonderful post and explanation. I completely agree (although just our opinions).

 

It's specs speak for itself. Porsche would be idiots to think it would be the fastest car with 450-500 hp. Fast, yes, fastest? Really? When they even have a model themselves that's faster? There is nothing to disagree with. Their line of vehicles speaks for itself.

Even the GT3 has become GT-ish with bloated weight, front axle lift kits, big nav kits. And Porsche are the kings of incremental improvements from one model to the next (usually adding about 15-20 hp if that) or selling an RS that's no faster than the regular GT3 (997.1). They will sell anything they can to make money.

Like I said, if you know Porsche, them trying to make the GT3 the fastest is laughable. Even the 4.0 was created for racing so they could race the 4.0 engine, not so they could beat the competition, because even though it came out later, it's still slower than Corvette (x2), Viper, GT2, and GT-R. How would you assume they are trying to make it the fastest?

 

450-500HP N/A!

Big difference.

Reading between your lines, you've said, yet another way,~Porsche intentionally created a slower track car.

I will try to find it, in writing, them saying the same thing.

I probably won't try that hard, because I don't think it exists, but my line of thinking is exactly in line with why the GT3 might be offered with PDK (and eventually only offered with PDK in the future).

Some might suggest that people who buy PDK (or DCT's) don't have to learn to drive, but that is a separate discussion in itself (which takes place on almost every thread dealing with dual-clutch equipped cars).

 

Yep... we are THE FAN CLUB and keep on lapping up the juice !! My concern is more the VOLUME of cars Porsche is pushing out renegading Porsche to a true volume manufacturer making sausages (at caviar prices) ! It's going to cost them in the end. Exclusivity bring in major DOLLARS and Porsche is doing away with that. Just look at the 996 prices (1999-2004), the first real volume car built by Porsche. I saw a number somewhere - total built - of 160,000.