That's a bunch of jibberish, so I'm going to ignore it.

Porsche has tested PDK and it was no faster than the Manual on the Nurburgring. Quoted from Walter Rohrl himself.

What was that about intentionally making a slower car again?

Comon Jasper, you know you are out of your league in these discussions.

 

You can ignore it all you like. Doesn't change anything.

You are the one who said... Ummm... I'll just put it here. Try and keep up with yourself.
(I even left the whole quote, so nobody can say I took it out of context)

I simply stated that Porsche may not openly agree with the position that the GT3 was not designed to be a premier track car, one of the quickest out (which was stated by just about every here - including yourself, only it was phrased a number of different ways).

It struck me as funny that many say that the PDK is faster (even you said that dual clutches offer an advantage - I can show you, if you don't recall), then wonder why it would be offered in a GT3.

That being said - I haven't disagreed with anything anyone said about the car, only that I don't think Porsche would openly admit to what you are saying.

 

Let me add a little history to why I say this:

A few years ago, when CSI was relatively new (I think there was only one version at the time), there was an episode where somebody was living out a fantasy, and (obviously) was killed. Part of his fantasy was driving a Ferrari. One detective noticed tire tracks that hinted at a street race. The detective asked,"Did he win?" The person who rented out the Ferrari responded,"It's a Ferrari, it always wins."

Now that may be the official marketing Ferrari position. But we all know, in real life, that the F430 is not the fastest car in the world. That's as far as I going. Feel free to disagree with me, but I'd love to see proof supporting your position.

 

I don't even know what you guys are really arguing about. I can't see the new GT3 being PDK only when the Carrera already has both types of transmissions offered. This is not a Ferrari 458 or GTR we're talking about, both of which are stand-alone cars designed solely around one specific transmission setup. Hell even if Porsche were to phase out manuals eventually, I don't think they'd hop from manual only to PDK only in a single generation. I can't imagine a world where a BMW M3 offered a manual option and not a GT3 (though we'll see on the next M3).

As for Porsche's fast intentions, I think the fact that the new 991S is faster than the last GT3 on some tracks will tell you all you need to know about that. They are pursuing refinement and comfort with this new generation, but clearly not at the expense of outright pace.

 

The point, which you STILL don't get is that Porsche isn't trying to build the fastest car on the market with the GT3. They are trying to build a pure track car that's the closest you can get to a real race car and still go to get groceries with. Name a better street/track car.......... (I dare you to say GT-R)

Mission accomplished, being the fastest car out is not part of the equation, which YOU, YES YOU continue to insinuate.

Porsche knows it's GT3 consumer base is not going to flee because a GT-R or Corvette gets a fast lap time. Nissan thought that might help, but GT-R sales don't exactly reflect any stolen sales. And there more and more people who try GT-R and get bored quickly. As for the Corvette, it's just not a GT3, nothing is, regardless of how fast it is.

So I will reiterate what aaaa said. Porsche knows it's customer base is concerned about more than having the fastest car at the track. You will get it one day.

 

I have absolutely no idea where you are coming from.

Somebody said "People don't buy a GT3 to go fast". I thought it was funny, and think Porsche would never back that statement. You still haven't offered proof otherwise. What you have done, is offer a bunch of marketing BS that keeps reiterating the same point.

Listen, heavychevy - I have not disagreed with anything you've said about the car, its capabilities, its target audience, its relative speed/performance.

My issue (that you apparently missed, repeatedly), is that Porsche would not say the same thing. Prove me wrong, or stop arguing against point I'm not making.

 

Yo, anyone got any popcorn? This is a fun exchange....I tend to agree with you both. Porsche focus is on the best track car with the GT3. And with the 4.0 RS, it was also meant to be the fastest track car. So I think ur both right at some level and like all cars, they never stay at the top of the heap long as another brands passit by, literally and figuratively speaking.

 

To respond to this thread, I’ll use one of Jeremy Clarkson’s examples. If you asked a “driver”, which experience was more enjoyable between traveling in an airplane at 500+ MPH or driving a go-kart, they’d pick the kart 9/10 times.

Driving is a visceral experience, especially to those who are GT car owners/fans. Porsche executives should and do know that, so I can’t imagine that they would be so stupid as to arrogantly gamble on eliminating a manual transmission from their flag-ship drivers’ focused car, especially when that transmission is so revered by the customers and do it on a first iteration model release.

I further can’t imagine that they wouldn’t offer the manual transmission on a GT3, but make it an option on their Carrera models. My assumption is that Porsche will offer a manual tranny as an option, but depending on the sales-mix of this iteration, it may or may not make it around to the next model.

 

Very well said, I have a deposit on the 991 GT3 and will cancel the order if a manual is not offered.

 

I agree with you. Both arguments are correct in their own way.

Of course the GT3 wasn't meant to be the fastest car out and it isn't the fastest car out. The fastest car money can buy would not cost less than $150,000 like the GT3 (base price)

At the same time they weren't trying to not make a fast car. The GT3 is fast and Porsche designed it to be. There are other cars in its price range that are not meant to be fast and they are quite a bit different than the GT3 (and slower).

What Porsche meant to do with the GT3 RS is make the fastest car possible at it's price point while still appealing to the Porsche audience. (at least that's how I look at it)

I think the argument here is about two different topics.

Heavychevy seems to be arguing that the GT3 is not meant to be the fastest car out. That's true and proof of this idea can be seen with the fact Porsche themselves made a faster car, the GT2 RS.

Then I think Jaspergtr is taking this to mean that the GT3 is not meant to be fast. And he is correct when he says the GT3 is meant to be fast, there is no arguing against that.

If I am reading the posts right (and please correct me if I am not), it mostly seems like miscommunication. It seems like its the difference between arguing the GT3 is meant to be a fast car and the GT3 is meant to be the fastest car.

I think what everyone can agree on is that the GT3 is really good at what its meant to do: provide a great driving experience on the track while still being practical enough to drive fairly comfortably on the street.

 

Comprehension for the loss. I'm only pointing out your lack of knowledge of the brand and it's consumer base considering you are a GT-R fanboy and only troll this forum.

You response to this quite accurate and insightful post is what I have been responding to.

This is VERY accurate. People do not buy GT3's to be the fastest car at the track. In fact, even though the GT3 is tracked a lot per owner, most people STILL don't track them, and many of the ones that do, are not fast in them. Doesn't bother them one bit. I know and track with a LOT of GT3 owners and none of them envy Z06's, ACR's, GT-R's etc that are faster. They'll still buy the GT3 for the experience it offers. I'll say again. fast? yes! fastest? lol!

Jasper stop trying to act like you have interest or knowledge of the conversation. It's not fooling anyone.

 

Thank you. It was really a simple comment. I had no idea it balloon into this. I simply believe that Porsche designed the car to be fast, and might take offense to people that say otherwise.

I believe there is some serious miscommunication here. heavychevy appears to be somewhat threatened whenever I speak about a 911. I have not disagreed with anything he or anyone else has said about the car. I've personally enjoyed every experience I've had in a GT3 (very much). It is a wonderful car, for so many reasons. I am in no way arguing about the capabilities of the car, nor where it sits in the Porsche line up, nor how fast it is, its streetability, its visceral experience, etc... That information speaks for itself.

If you walk up to a Porsche corporate person and say,"I bought a GT3 because I didn't care about laptimes, there are other cars that can deliver those, I just wanted a fun car" I think his feelings would be hurt.

There might be a Mazda corporate guy, standing right behind him, chuckling.

I agree with everyone here, that the GT3 offers something that no other car on the road offers (between the balance of power, speed, control, feedback, etc...), and I would be pretty upset if there was no longer a traditional single clutch manual option for a car like this. But all of that being said - Porsche is not going to produce crap, and the PDK will offer a similar but different experience if only offered in PDK. They might also get increased sales (because more people (perhaps who don't want to bother with a clutch pedal) will purchase one, thinking they are a track star). heavychevy, I KNOW you know where I'm coming from here.

 

As I said before, I will be OK with no more manual. My racecar has manual and in SCCA I learned that many of the fastest drivers don't even use heel & toe any more, thanks to synchronized trannies. I got faster when I abandoned heel & toe. Anyway, you've identified lots of the skills a good driver needs to have, and I am one who will be happy with PDK. An added bonus will be the fact that it will be lots more pleasurable piloting a GT3 around town in rush hour with PDK.
Mr. B

 

Until now, I had never considered this. It does make the concept of a daily driver more realistic for those that currently disqualify it, based on the manual transmission. I, personally, don't mind the suspension stiffness or ride height as much as others do. I just don't like working that clutch pedal in traffic as much as I used to.

 

I notice the lack of heel/toe in a lot of amateur racing as well. The guys who aren't using heel/toe anymore are doing so probably because a lot of people still don't know the technique well enough. And they probably don't care about the gearbox rebuilds that come with it. It's hard to drive 10/10ths and heel/toe, takes skill. And given that they are winners, is more than likely they have the most money in their cars anyways and can afford to do extra gearbox rebuilds. There is no question that it preserves the life of the tranmission.

Watch Leh Keens 996 GT3 RS videos for someone who knows how to drive a manual properly. There is no way for heel/toe to slow you down when done properly. And PDK isn't going to reduce time. In fact, versus a race car setup, PDK probably adds 150-200 lbs, which will slow you down.