A properly sampled CD (although converted to digital) can more accurately reproduce an actual sound. It is converted, but is an advancement in technology that can be more easily experienced multiple times.

An analog copy is an accurate copy, but the playback itself is distorted (because of limits of technology).

There is no way in hell you're going to convince people that vinyl is the way to go, when a SACD offers almost infinitely more clear playback. The key here is playback (what is heard), not the recording method onto a given media (analog for vinyl, sampling and conversion for digital). Obviously, the actual sounds being recorded can only be experienced once with 0%THD. But newer media can reproduce that a LOT closer to 0% than vinyl.

Because playback is what we experience.

In driving, there are advancements in technology that allow a better experience. If you like hearing the imperfections of the vinyl, try driving a Lotus Elan or 240Z. The thing about LeMans style starts, is it brought into the foray a few different aspects that are lost on cars nowadays - such as the ability to start.

People have different experiences in audio, as well as driving, because no two people hear or experience things the same. Some prefer the art of hand cranking a car to start, some may miss the manual oil pumps (some vehicles required a passenger for this), or hand clutches, etc...

I liked the OP's perspective, because he used his own preferences and opinions to generate his outlook... He didn't say 'x' car sucks at the track, or 'y' is better. He stated that his experiences didn't elicit a certain response. Because this is unique, there is no right or wrong answer, only his answer.

I believe the advancements (developed primarily in racing) for cars have helped improve my experiences. I mean - there are people that like the danger of driving a car that has potential and almost a desire to kill them (F40, GT2RS, C5Z06, etc...). I, personally, do not. I enjoy the drive, not the thrill of danger. I prefer roller coasters that have been safety tested, not ones that we aren't sure if it will fall off the tracks or not.

 

I don't see the need for the hyperbole of 240z's and hand cranks when we are talking about 2 cars that are a couple of seconds apart on the nurburgring. Also, if you think the electronics make you safer in a car that weighs 800/900lbs more, you are mistaken. A GTR at 145mph on the back straight has 40% more kinetic energy than a GT3 at 140mph.

But leaving all of that aside, the "thrill" of the drive is not about courting danger (although for some that may be true), it is about a car that does what it is supposed to do in a corner (ie tighten the line when you let off the throttle). In order to make those small adjustments, the driver has to have a good feedback loop from his tires and chassis. He has to have an early signal of what is going on so he can respond accordingly. The GT3 is very good at this.

The GTR takes a different approach. Rather than sending signals to the driver so he can respond mid-corner, the car does it for you. This is a phenomenal achievement of engineering and technology, and no doubt the world of sportscardom will move towards the GTR's tremendously capable technical abilities in the future (it has set the bar). The hard part will be doing that without removing the driver from the experience. It isn't about danger, it's about "feel." (whatever that is).

Here's a video I took while following a GTR through oaktree at VIR, it's fascinating to watch the yaw changes of the car as it scrabbles for traction from all 4 tires, truly an amazing dynamic, but an amazing experience in which the driver is not participating (other than to be awed by what the car is doing for him):

http://youtu.be/l_-dcOnRUs0

Truly, no human being has the cycle time to make this many rapid changes (nor the ability to direct torque to 4 different tires in real time), so it's an outstanding accomplishment. I am completely awed and impressed by what the GTR can do, I just prefer to try to do some of it myself.

I know, I know - I have ABS and electronic engine management and modern aerodynamics; in truth this is an argument about a spectrum.

 

Having had both cars (still have the GT3/997.2), I agree that this is an interesting decision to make.

I really liked the GTR, and drove it everyday for 1.5 years. I honestly think I'll buy another one some day. The ongoing comments about its "numbness" have never registered with me. It seems that the first couple of reviews that came out in 2008 simply stuck and have been repeated over and over. Mostly from people who have never driven one, or perhaps drove it once. Turn the switches to "R" or "off" and you'll find a car that will really challenge you.

However, I do love the GT3. The steering feel, the noises it makes and the way it gets 'round corners is always a crowd pleaser. Acceleration does not match the GTR, but it's still damn fast and great fun on the track. I've got other DDs, but I'd have no trouble DDing the GT3, even on New England roads.

Since your GTR is a 2012, I'd drive it a bit longer. But if you make the change for a GT3, you won't regret it.

 

Exactly, this is a spectrum, but it's a narrow spectrum. The GT3 isn't a horse and buggy and the GTR isn't an xBox. The GTR is a little bit faster and the GT3 has a bit more feel. For me, the difference in feel with the GT3 is a larger variance than the difference in speed, but I can easily see how that could be reversed.

The GTR is by no means "not fun," just as the GT3 isn't slow.

 

Magnificent post!

People equate wanting to feel what's going on or be challenged by a car with imminent danger and that is hardly the case. Many times lacking the courage to test their own skills as opposed to having multiple fail-safes. GT-R's crash too. More responsibility can be far more rewarding and requires a higher level of concentration to get right, but does not mean you have to double clutch or hand crank the car.

As with anything there are gray areas, what is too much, and what is too little in terms of driver involvement. For me, if a car is just as fast without me touching any shift lever at all, I don't want it.

It's like racing, in the old days, the best driver/team combination could win for years on end, now if a team wins one race they get penalized to make it fair for everyone. That is nonsense. They are putting paddle shifters in all the race cars, so no driving rich guys can enter the sport and keep up with pro's. That tarnishes the spirit of competition. Like F1 trying to create passes with all of this DRS and KERS garbage, it may look like racing, but in the end it will NEVER EVER compare to the real racing when a pass had to be earned.

Same go's with cars.


I like a car that exposes a drivers weakness and creates a gap that is only bridge with a significant increase in skill.

 

I appreciate all the feedback guys. It has been very helpful to read all the comments.

I will have the opportunity for a bit of seat time in a friend's 2010 GT3 later this summer and take it out on some backroads for spirited driving. It would be better to take it on the track, but i don't want to test the friendship too much even though the track is quite a bit safer.

For now, I will further explore my GT-R until I can experience first hand the 997 GT3's greatness and then decide its fate.

I have been warming up to the idea of a less expensive track. However, I will probably need something a little more powerful than a Miata to keep me entertained. At least on the straights

Just curious, how rewarding and fun to drive is a modded 987 Cayman S compared to the 997.1 GT3?

 

Yup... Both your posts hit it head on... No drinking coolaid.

We will all believe what we will about people and the cars they choose. Drive whatever makes you happy, and don't ***** about the guy that passes you in whatever you choose to drive... I know I won't...

Mike

 

They put paddle shifters in race cars because they're faster than traditional stick shifts, just like they put in sequential boxes before that. I agree with your comments on F1 though as it has become a joke in its current form.

 

Nissan has done an amazing job selling Porsches.

Once you get a GT-R and realize it's auto-pilot, you long for something more. I did three seat of my pants years in a first year GT-R and realized when my lease was up that I wanted something more.

So I went to the Turbo S.

I've just done a year in my Turbo S and realized I want something more.

So I went to an GT3 RS. Probably would have saved a lot of money going straight to the RS but, I enjoyed my time with the S.

Not trying to take anything away from the GT-R. It's an amazing car. But as many have stated, it's digital and I'm looking for analog.

Good luck with your decision!

 

i went from a 07 gt3 to a 12 gtr last june. loved the gt3 for 4 yrs with 20,000 mi as daily driver and about 25 track days. gtr also dd and so far 10000 mi and 10 track days. you can see i am using the gtr much more than i did the porsche. gtr is much better on the street.

now as far as track goes, if you want a clutch pedal than that's about the end of it. if your open to paddles then this is my opinion... both are very involving on track but the porsche experience is enhanced mainly by the sound. that can be easily corrected in gtr with aftermarket exhaust system. gtr is obviously much faster lap times but detractors say its clinical, robotic, boring, too easy, etc. i say bs. learn to left foot brake the gtr and see how much fun that is. it is an amazing track day drift car. much better in that respect than the porsche. how is that not fun pretending youre a tv test driver sliding around on topgear?

as for maintenance costs, gtr has more fluids to change than gt3 and tires/brakes wear out little quicker, but its still in same ball park. neither are cheap to run

imo, keep the gtr or maybe trade it for a 4.0rs or a scuderia, superleggera. otherwise youre trading down

 

They put paddle shifters in race cars so gentlemen racers could race with the pro's instead of learning how to drive a regular sequential. (I'm talking about GT racing, mostly FIA Lemans Series and ALMS).

Paddle shift is not faster than a shifter **** in a regular sequential, which is what I'm referring to.

 

I think your maintenance costs will be lower with the GT3. I have thought about making the move to the GT-R from the GT3 997.1 but, a friend did this and now he can't bring the GT-R to the track all of the time because of the maintenance cost. Aside from going to the GT3RS, I can't think of a better car than the GT3. Turn off the traction control and really drive your car vs. the GT-R which I hear can drive itself but the computer is always present? As the other guys have said, you won't have the straight line speed but to me, there's nothing like the 911. GT3 is a little low and you have to keep a stock of front lips and watch all driveways or you scrape the prophylactic (use it once and throw it away) front lip.

 

So let's not start bashing Miata's. This is my second track car and if you can drive a Miata fast, you can drive anything fast. I regularly pass cars with huge horsepower because the drivers can only go fast in a straight line (yes, Ferrari 458's and F430's). Too many people just rely on having horsepower and can't make a turn. The most I learned about driving was getting in a Spec Miata for a year. Now, a Miata at a PCA event, not real exciting but get your competition license and come SCCA club racing with the Spec Miata's and prepare to get schooled.

 

This is the reason I don't want to track my GT-R. Tires and brakes are relatively expensive and get eaten up rather quickly due to the combination of high cornering abilities and nearly 2 tons of mass. Expensive fluid life is also significantly reduced from the factory 36k intervals when subjected to track use.

No Miata bashing here. However, what is a good alternative hardtop momentum car with similar capabilities as the Miata at a similar price point? E36?

 

Skip it. Been down a similar road (track prepped .2 CS an moved to .2 GT3). The Cayman is a fantastic platform. if they made a GT variant, I would probably hand Porsche a blank check. But the don't. There are options for motor swaps and turbos but none will ever have OEM reliability or fit/finish. As i've gotten older, I prefer mostly stock cars. After enjoying the Cayman for 2 years, I just wanted more power a better suspension setup. I could have done that in the CS but preferred to spend that money upgrading to the GT3. The GT3 is a lot more car and very enjoyable as-is. For me, it is the perfect solution.