Who would be interested in a 4.0 stroker kit which would include Billet +6mm Crankshaft, Forged Rods and Pistons(102mm) and Sleeves(Cylinder Liners)?

I want to stroke my motor but to do it just for my car would be super expensive unless I can find other people like myself that are interested to come together and order 5+ kits to bring the price down considerably.
I have looked at the prices of individual parts like Rods, Pistons, Cranks from various vendors and realized it is ridiculously expensive.

I have located a source for stroker billet crankshafts that will be around $4K which is the most expensive part(have to order 5 pieces minimum). Most manufacturers asked anywhere from 6500 to 8k. More orders and the better price we would get. There is a setup fee which gets divided between the units; price of each unit goes down as the number of ordered cranks go up. I will try and find out more shortly.

Brian Pauter is a friend of mine and I think I can get great pricing through him. Pauter Rods are one of the most respected ones out in the industry. I have used his rods in my 640hp 4 cylinder Subaru engine and they worked great. I am sure they would have taken a lot more still. In a 6 cylinder application you can add 50% more to that number so 1000+hp would not be an issue.
Other options are out there as well like Carrillo, Crower, etc.

Pistons can be custom compression. I would think the 9.4-1 is good for the TT and GT2s unless you want to run a ton of boost, and can have high compression for GT3s. I want to do 996 Turbos but I will have to find out more info on 997s as well as GT3s.
The trick will be to keep the rotating assembly as light as possible. Even though we would go up to 102mm pistons and increase the stroke by 6mm, we can reduce the weight by using tricks like lighter wrist pins(still stronger), Light weight forged pistons, reducing weight of the rods by tapering the wrist pin end, cutting grooves in the trust face, etc., knife edging and lightening the crank.
By using all the tricks we can without compromising strength, we can keep the rotating mass low.

Having 400cc more displacement will be huge. That means your turbos would spool up quicker, those of you with bigger turbos would benefit from that greatly, and that also means more power and torque off boost as well as on boost.

 

Very Interesting. Don't forget Scat for the rods, I've had good results for bargain money.

For use GT3/RS guys sticking to either the standard titanium rods or similar from Carrillo etc would be good. The compression ratio of approx 13:1.

How do you purpose to manage the crank case machining required?

Thanks
Jay

P.S I agree on the P tax pricing!

 

Custom made billet crankshaft for 4K? Good luck.
Mahle piston (102 mm) set will be minimum 6.5K
There's tons of detailed machining needed not being factored in.
Again best of luck.

\m/

 

I talked to SCAT first about the cranks and they wanted $8500. I think that was partially because its for a Porsche. If I would have said VW it would have been 500. lol

Still doing homework trying of figure out the finer details. One way would be to use smaller rod end journals on the crank and have rods accordingly which would be smaller in size and not require machining. It is only 6mm total increase in Stroke which is 3mm each side; that should not be that difficult to take care of.
Still trying to figure out all the fine details.

 

Pistons for 6.5k??? WHY?
Pistons should not cost more than 1200-1500 depending on design, pins, rings, etc.
You guys are used to paying these ridiculous prices and thinks its ok because someone sold you on it. We are just going to have to change that.
There will be Sleeves, Cylinder Liners needed but it still won't be 6.5K for both the Sleeves and the Pistons. I'd be surprised if it will be more than 4K for both.
$4K for the crank?? Good luck? I'll take that bet!

 

Hey man not a problem. The old saying, "you get what you pay for"
Hopefully I won't hear the "BANG" from here.
So just curious, how much do you believe you'll spend to do a 4.0L TT build?
Again I repeat myself (which I don't like) ... all the best of luck.


\m/

 

Normally I'd agree with you about you get what you pay for but not when you pay the same price that a shop pays; that is before they tack on profit.
What I can do that most people don't have the ability to (thanks to my contacts of manufacturers, or contacts of my close friends, etc.) is to find top notch parts or have them custom made at wholesale pricing. We have been doing this for over a decade and thanks to where we live, have access to contacts that can provide superior parts at wholesale pricing. One catch is that I can not do this when I order just 1 part; they require like a minimum 5 set order(sometimes 3+); that brings down the price of each item. If I ordered 1 it will be a 6-8K crank.
If you are a shop that charges 30K for a stroker build you are going to hate me and say as much as you can to discredit me, say its impossible, or the parts you get will be bad, but if you are an enthusiast like myself and are trying to build your car, you are going to love what I can bring onto the table; best bang for the least buck. You will still have to find a shop, an engine builder to put the motor together where you will have to pay the Porsche tax. That I can not help you with unfortunately.

I haven't told you who the crank manufacturer is yet, so don't you think its a little premature to say it's low quality, inferior to what ever you think might be better and is going to grenade??
What if I told you that the crank would be coming from COSWORTH for that price, not that I'm claiming that, but what possibly could you say then..?

BTW, you can pop any motor, no matter how good the parts that are in it if you don't build it right, tolerances, etc. and\or not tune it properly!
Maybe you are trying to be helpful but I am detecting a bit of sarcasm and negativity. If I am wrong… my apologies to you.

I have not gathered all the info yet but I am hoping it will be in the $8-10K mark. That will include top notch parts like Pauter or Carrillo rods, JE, CP, Wiseco pistons, I mentioned.
Give me a week or so and I will have more info for you all.

 

Kesyer, I'm normally with you with the scepticism but in this case its not quite the black art many make out, being clean, diligent and using the right components, tools and techniques count for a lot!

I have been around in the racing world and think your [Adamnsons] prices are on the low side BUT I never catered for buying in bulk or BOGOF deals lol! Ptax does account for approximately a 25-50% loading.

Piston sets/kits with rings and all extras like ceramic coatings etc ran ~$750 each or $4500 for a set of six, cylinders/liners should be ~$1500. Rods $1800 a set for fordged (4340/340M steel), can't remember what I paid for titanium rods last but it wasn't that much. Billet cranks were in the region of $5500.

Machining is inexpensive but having the knowledge of where to machine and by how much will be a pain although I'm sure with a bit of research this could be found or a good machine shop could do the math.

Cheers
Jay

 

ADAMNSON, this is getting boring.
So, yes or no, is Cosworth building your crankshaft? You're being evasive.
So you are stating that you can do a 4.0L TT build for 10K???
Not sure what planet you're living in sir.
Please talk to reputable tuners and see what they tell you.
Now if you're a luminary or an automotive genius I will bow to your superior intelligence. Oh btw who's going to tune your monster with mutilple ECU files or possibly stand alone ECU, ie. Motec boost by gear??? Oh yeah that's in your 10K budget? You have been talking about a TT build, right?
A 4.0L TT build for 10K? What about the cost of your turbo upgrades, intercoolers, intakes, injectors, clutch, axles and exhaust???
Just go ahead and build your Jap pocket rocket that will not hold up to my little POS Porsche in a road course turning multiple laps after laps.
This discussion is bullcrap. I'm done here and stand down.
Best of luck Mr. ADAMNSON,

\m/

 

Well, I am not calming to be a genius but I can tell you are not either
Sorry, I couldn't help myself…

Nope, not another planet… I live in beautiful Laguna Beach =) It's great down here, you should check it out sometime.

I am not being evasive. The Cosworth bit was to make a point. No, it is not Cosworth that is going to supply the billet crankshafts. Pauter Machine will be the manufacturer of the Billet Crankshafts and the Forged Con-rods. Brian Pauter is a friend of mine; he knows his stuff! People that have been around the boxer engines know well that Pauter Machine manufactures some of the best parts. They even have their own 4cylinder boxer motors that make 1000-1200hp. That is a 4cylinder engine not 6 which would be 1500-1800hp.

Seems to me you got the wrong idea… Maybe that is why you are getting all worked up. Take a deep breath and\or count to 10… I'm saying I can put together a stroker kit for under 10K. Just the parts! Billet crankshaft, forged rods and pistons, ductile iron sleeves(Cylinder liners), rod bearings, piston wrist pins and piston rings.
Obviously the labor would be on top of the parts. As I mentioned before I can not help anyone with that; I don't own a shop, I am not vendor, I am not an engine builder. I can build my own motors, short of machining, balancing, etc. where I can save myself a ton of money.

I'm a little puzzled. Why you are taking this so personally? I am not. I am trying to put something together so both I and others can benefit from it. If you are not happy with it, just move along like you said. I am not pushing to sell you anything. Are you a vendor or maybe work for a shop? Is that why you are getting all worked up? I'm just asking…

BTW, why would you talk about my Jap pocket rocket as you put it, which I am guessing is about my Subaru. You do not want a piece of that!!! Which incidentally runs on a MOTEC M48 Pro. 2400lbs, 640hp and all wheel drive with a dog-box is pretty hard to beat! Not that I have the need to prove it to you mind you. I enjoy my cars, and I wish you the same. And stop calling your poor car a POS!!! That is not nice. I am sure your car will be more reliable than my GC8. I will not argue with that.

I never said anything about turbo upgrades, intake, exhaust, intercoolers, injectors, clutch etc. either. Why are you brining those up? Again, just so I am clear, I said "4.0 STROKER KIT"
Most people on here already have those upgrades you mentioned.

This is the way I am going with my own car:
- K24 turbos upgraded with 20G billet wheels, extended tip, clipped exhaust wheel, ported n polished. Sleeper setup
- Individual Turbo Intakes (a lot cheaper than intake pipes that are out there)
- Y-pipe with blow through MAF (building it)
- GT2RS Intercoolers
- Silicone intercooler hoses (I already have)
- Diverter valves (I already have but might replace with a TiAL bov)
- Injectors
- Inline fuel pump (I already have)
- Headers (I already have)
- Exhaust (I already have FVD but building a custom setup)
- Light weight flywheel (I already have)
- Spec stage 3+ clutch (I already have)
- H2O\Meth injection (I already have)
- 4.0 Stroker (which is why I am posting this thread)
- Tune stock ECU (which obviously will be the final stage. There are a few great tuners out there with reasonable pricing. I don't have to get raped paying $3500
I don't want to complicate things and add more expense by running my Motec. Even though I already have a M48 Pro, and a Motec Ignition Expander, etc., the wiring harness for the porsche alone would be pretty time consuming and\or expensive. Tuning the Motec mind you is pretty reasonable compared to some of these prices Porsche tuners are charging.
I am not looking to make more than 700-800 at the motor which is more than enough for most of us.
I asked around and most of the engine builders seem to agree that, past 650hp mark it is a good idea changing at least the Pistons and Connecting-Rod Bolts. Forged rods are recommended but at least the rod bolts for sure. When you take your engine out to swap pistons, it is worth the extra money to stroke the darn thing to have a piece of mind and to benefit from the extra displacement. 400CCs makes a big difference!

The stroker motor will:
- Help spool up the Turbos (Bigger turbos would greatly benefit from that)
- Eliminate engine damage caused by weaker stock rods, pistons failure
- More torque and horsepower both off boost and on boost.

 

Adamson,
It does look like you have a handle on the subject and I agree Pauter kit is excellent.

Don't take Keyser to heart, he's a good guy and means well and has a lot of knowledge of tuning cars both good and bad, he already owns a gorgeous stroked RS with some of the best equipment in the business underneath. He does jump in for the kill if he thinks things are going personal and will miss some peoples humor, it’s an old defense mechanism/trait that has served him well in other arena's so I would say Adamson & Keyser stand down sir's.

Following still with interest.
Jay

 

Hi Jay,

I'm not here to create ripples in the pond. I think Keiser misunderstood me and thought I was saying its possible to build a stroker for under 10K which is not what I was trying to say. I would say it would cost another 6K or so for the engine build and an other K for motor removal\install on top of the parts. I believe you when you say he is a good guy. Again, I think he misunderstood me and got worked up a little. No worries
I would hate to ask him how much he spent on his stroker motor… He has an awesome profile name by the way!!

 

Its all good, no riples just normal forum life.

Theres a good reason behind the name but Mr Soze would have to kill me if I said ;O)

Jay

 

He wouldn't happen to be from Turkey would he??

That was a great movie.

 

I used to be a detective, but I don't think it's too hard to work out who he is

Great build idea though Adamson, I'm subscribed and will tune in with interest. Would be great if a kit could be put together for the gt3 for around the 10k mark then have my indie over here do the engine build and outsource the machining.

Getting itchy feet again Jay with all this talk about 4.0 builds

Dave.