Why I don't buy a CGT
#31
08-26-2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by 20C4S
for god sake u're worry about the F430 spider?! it ain't no CGT & people will beg u for it with 100 grand cash extra waiting outside of ur house all day long~
for god sake u're worry about the F430 spider?! it ain't no CGT & people will beg u for it with 100 grand cash extra waiting outside of ur house all day long~
#32
08-26-2005, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Mike T
You could loan it to me for awhile if it's just going to be a burden on you.
You could loan it to me for awhile if it's just going to be a burden on you.
#33
08-26-2005, 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by deeroff
I admit that I agree with some of his opinions, and I own one.
I admit that I agree with some of his opinions, and I own one.
T
#34
08-26-2005, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by deeroff
C'mon by. If there is anything that Ben taught me is that we have to share our toys so others can experience them too.
C'mon by. If there is anything that Ben taught me is that we have to share our toys so others can experience them too.
Too nice! Just like Ben .. 
I'll be in NYC next year sometime, but probably not soon. I'd probably donate a kidney or something to see a CGT / 430 close-up.
#35
08-26-2005, 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Mike T
Too nice! Just like Ben ..
I'll be in NYC next year sometime, but probably not soon. I'd probably donate a kidney or something to see a CGT / 430 close-up.
Too nice! Just like Ben .. I'll be in NYC next year sometime, but probably not soon. I'd probably donate a kidney or something to see a CGT / 430 close-up.
#36
08-26-2005, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by LUIS95993
Go to Bert Smith in St Petersburg....They had a CGT outside yesterday. (It was in their showroom 2 weeks ago too)
Go to Bert Smith in St Petersburg....They had a CGT outside yesterday. (It was in their showroom 2 weeks ago too)
Edit: You said it was outside ... maybe
#37
08-26-2005, 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Mike T
One of these days I will probably swing by a showroom, but if you were to meet me, you'd understand why I'm hesitant to walk into Porsche dealerships. The guys on the floor always make me feel uncomfortable.
Edit: You said it was outside ... maybe
One of these days I will probably swing by a showroom, but if you were to meet me, you'd understand why I'm hesitant to walk into Porsche dealerships. The guys on the floor always make me feel uncomfortable.
Edit: You said it was outside ... maybe
#40
08-26-2005, 07:12 PM
It's kind of funny that when everyone is questioning Porsche of "selling out", not making real sports cars anymore, dumbing down their offerings to turn more numbers....they release true driver's sports cars in the streetable form of the GT2, GT3 and a bit later the CGT; two are raw, lightweight, race-bred GT cars, and the other is one of the most powerful and capable production cars ever and almost creates its own category that was only touched on by the past GT1 homologations from a few makers. Yet, there are complaints about the impracticality of a driver's car...always have been I'm sure. It's just a little funnier now that there are 3 serious sports car offerings from the Porsche marque--being produced alongside those "other" cars that target appeal en masse.
One thing is for sure, if Porsche doesn't build serious sports cars, they will not retain the interest or respect of their high caliber niche audience, and over time as they phase out rear-engine designs as "the" iconic sports car offering and transition to more mid-engine and front-engine offerings (as we're seeing now), the only foothold they will have in the marketplace will be anchored by differentiation underscored in these uncompromised driver's cars in question. I hope they continue to offer such cars, I will buy a few of them over time, enjoy them, track them, and get a taste of Porsche racing spirit that the company was founded upon. I don't disagree with Bill's points (and I know at the very least, Bill is an experienced driver and sports car enthusiast, so there is no discounting his skills or credibility as a "real" sports car consumer), they are just as valid as others . I certainly don't disagree with Porsche's product offerings. There is something for everyone, and the figurehead driver's cars have their place.
Is the CGT practical? Hell no. My inference from our conversations is that Ben went from 911 to Ferrari CS to CGT, in search of the ultimate driver's car. The CGT was it, a no compromise tour de force from Porsche, one of his favorite marques. For those with the means to buy the ultimate driver's Porsche, it's easy to understand how some can be so passionate about it. For those in search of the best in GT cars, one with ultimate performance, practicality, luxury and convenience, it simply isn't it. Maybe a Ruf Turbo is. Maybe a TT is. I believe Porsche was purposeful in the design and release of the CGT. If they aren't coming back for '06, no problem, it's purpose was served. It's made a statement that they are firmly in touch with their racing roots, perhaps the most important positioning message to not lose sight of. Had they not produced this car for the street, the owners would've never had even a small taste of what a GT1-level race car performs like unless they were willing to really go racing.
What a steaming pile this post is! ( Hahaha...beat you to it! )
One thing is for sure, if Porsche doesn't build serious sports cars, they will not retain the interest or respect of their high caliber niche audience, and over time as they phase out rear-engine designs as "the" iconic sports car offering and transition to more mid-engine and front-engine offerings (as we're seeing now), the only foothold they will have in the marketplace will be anchored by differentiation underscored in these uncompromised driver's cars in question. I hope they continue to offer such cars, I will buy a few of them over time, enjoy them, track them, and get a taste of Porsche racing spirit that the company was founded upon. I don't disagree with Bill's points (and I know at the very least, Bill is an experienced driver and sports car enthusiast, so there is no discounting his skills or credibility as a "real" sports car consumer), they are just as valid as others . I certainly don't disagree with Porsche's product offerings. There is something for everyone, and the figurehead driver's cars have their place.
Is the CGT practical? Hell no. My inference from our conversations is that Ben went from 911 to Ferrari CS to CGT, in search of the ultimate driver's car. The CGT was it, a no compromise tour de force from Porsche, one of his favorite marques. For those with the means to buy the ultimate driver's Porsche, it's easy to understand how some can be so passionate about it. For those in search of the best in GT cars, one with ultimate performance, practicality, luxury and convenience, it simply isn't it. Maybe a Ruf Turbo is. Maybe a TT is. I believe Porsche was purposeful in the design and release of the CGT. If they aren't coming back for '06, no problem, it's purpose was served. It's made a statement that they are firmly in touch with their racing roots, perhaps the most important positioning message to not lose sight of. Had they not produced this car for the street, the owners would've never had even a small taste of what a GT1-level race car performs like unless they were willing to really go racing.
What a steaming pile this post is! ( Hahaha...beat you to it!
)
#41
08-26-2005, 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Mike T
I have been met rather abrasively in the past.
I have been met rather abrasively in the past.
Some of the salespeople at some of these dealerships can be rather annoying but a "im just looking" usually keeps them away.
#42
08-26-2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Super D
It's kind of funny that when everyone is questioning Porsche of "selling out", not making real sports cars anymore, dumbing down their offerings to turn more numbers....they release true driver's sports cars in the streetable form of the GT2, GT3 and a bit later the CGT; two are raw, lightweight, race-bred GT cars, and the other is one of the most powerful and capable production cars ever and almost creates its own category that was only touched on by the past GT1 homologations from a few makers. Yet, there are complaints about the impracticality of a driver's car...always have been I'm sure. It's just a little funnier now that there are 3 serious sports car offerings from the Porsche marque--being produced alongside those "other" cars that target appeal en masse.
One thing is for sure, if Porsche doesn't build serious sports cars, they will not retain the interest or respect of their high caliber niche audience, and over time as they phase out rear-engine designs as "the" iconic sports car offering and transition to more mid-engine and front-engine offerings (as we're seeing now), the only foothold they will have in the marketplace will be anchored by differentiation underscored in these uncompromised driver's cars in question. I hope they continue to offer such cars, I will buy a few of them over time, enjoy them, track them, and get a taste of Porsche racing spirit that the company was founded upon. I don't disagree with Bill's points (and I know at the very least, Bill is an experienced driver and sports car enthusiast, so there is no discounting his skills or credibility as a "real" sports car consumer), they are just as valid as others . I certainly don't disagree with Porsche's product offerings. There is something for everyone, and the figurehead driver's cars have their place.
Is the CGT practical? Hell no. My inference from our conversations is that Ben went from 911 to Ferrari CS to CGT, in search of the ultimate driver's car. The CGT was it, a no compromise tour de force from Porsche, one of his favorite marques. For those with the means to buy the ultimate driver's Porsche, it's easy to understand how some can be so passionate about it. For those in search of the best in GT cars, one with ultimate performance, practicality, luxury and convenience, it simply isn't it. Maybe a Ruf Turbo is. Maybe a TT is. I believe Porsche was purposeful in the design and release of the CGT. If they aren't coming back for '06, no problem, it's purpose was served. It's made a statement that they are firmly in touch with their racing roots, perhaps the most important positioning message to not lose sight of. Had they not produced this car for the street, the owners would've never had even a small taste of what a race car performs like unless they were willing to really go racing.
It's kind of funny that when everyone is questioning Porsche of "selling out", not making real sports cars anymore, dumbing down their offerings to turn more numbers....they release true driver's sports cars in the streetable form of the GT2, GT3 and a bit later the CGT; two are raw, lightweight, race-bred GT cars, and the other is one of the most powerful and capable production cars ever and almost creates its own category that was only touched on by the past GT1 homologations from a few makers. Yet, there are complaints about the impracticality of a driver's car...always have been I'm sure. It's just a little funnier now that there are 3 serious sports car offerings from the Porsche marque--being produced alongside those "other" cars that target appeal en masse.
One thing is for sure, if Porsche doesn't build serious sports cars, they will not retain the interest or respect of their high caliber niche audience, and over time as they phase out rear-engine designs as "the" iconic sports car offering and transition to more mid-engine and front-engine offerings (as we're seeing now), the only foothold they will have in the marketplace will be anchored by differentiation underscored in these uncompromised driver's cars in question. I hope they continue to offer such cars, I will buy a few of them over time, enjoy them, track them, and get a taste of Porsche racing spirit that the company was founded upon. I don't disagree with Bill's points (and I know at the very least, Bill is an experienced driver and sports car enthusiast, so there is no discounting his skills or credibility as a "real" sports car consumer), they are just as valid as others . I certainly don't disagree with Porsche's product offerings. There is something for everyone, and the figurehead driver's cars have their place.
Is the CGT practical? Hell no. My inference from our conversations is that Ben went from 911 to Ferrari CS to CGT, in search of the ultimate driver's car. The CGT was it, a no compromise tour de force from Porsche, one of his favorite marques. For those with the means to buy the ultimate driver's Porsche, it's easy to understand how some can be so passionate about it. For those in search of the best in GT cars, one with ultimate performance, practicality, luxury and convenience, it simply isn't it. Maybe a Ruf Turbo is. Maybe a TT is. I believe Porsche was purposeful in the design and release of the CGT. If they aren't coming back for '06, no problem, it's purpose was served. It's made a statement that they are firmly in touch with their racing roots, perhaps the most important positioning message to not lose sight of. Had they not produced this car for the street, the owners would've never had even a small taste of what a race car performs like unless they were willing to really go racing.
I don't think anyone could have said it any better.
#43
08-26-2005, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by TUUNER
If it's not out of line, would you mind sharing which opinions you were more or less agreeing with? I'm taking copious notes at this point...tough decision.
T
If it's not out of line, would you mind sharing which opinions you were more or less agreeing with? I'm taking copious notes at this point...tough decision.
T
As for what I agree with:
You do need to plan your route to avoid scraping things. This is a major inconvenience and I wish they had a hydraulic lift a la the Enzo - The "lift kit" is a joke.
Number 7 is also an issue - I barely trust the local dealer to do a state inspection on the CGT, let alone an alignment or major service.
And it is BIG - But then again the last car I thought was perfect and fit me like a glove was my 1985 MR-2 .....
I also agree that the price will level out at around $250K.
Otherwise, I don't share his opinion - BUT, I respect it.
#44
08-26-2005, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by deeroff
Not out of line at all -- Bottom line is it is the ultimate road-going machine you will ever find.
As for what I agree with:
You do need to plan your route to avoid scraping things. This is a major inconvenience and I wish they had a hydraulic lift a la the Enzo - The "lift kit" is a joke.
Number 7 is also an issue - I barely trust the local dealer to do a state inspection on the CGT, let alone an alignment or major service.
And it is BIG - But then again the last car I thought was perfect and fit me like a glove was my 1985 MR-2 .....
I also agree that the price will level out at around $250K.
Otherwise, I don't share his opinion - BUT, I respect it.
Not out of line at all -- Bottom line is it is the ultimate road-going machine you will ever find.
As for what I agree with:
You do need to plan your route to avoid scraping things. This is a major inconvenience and I wish they had a hydraulic lift a la the Enzo - The "lift kit" is a joke.
Number 7 is also an issue - I barely trust the local dealer to do a state inspection on the CGT, let alone an alignment or major service.
And it is BIG - But then again the last car I thought was perfect and fit me like a glove was my 1985 MR-2 .....
I also agree that the price will level out at around $250K.
Otherwise, I don't share his opinion - BUT, I respect it.
Thanks.
#45
08-26-2005, 07:44 PM
Sure - There is really no comparison - seriously. Everthing is much more visceral than ever experienced - input results in immediate output/response and mistakes are not forgiven. Your senses are more attuned - and they better be - confidence is not a part of the equation - respect is - not that you need be timid, but you cannot be too confident (unless you are Rohl - and even he trashed a few).
If you try to compare it to a modern high performance car or supercar, it does not translate -- for example, the 996 TT is all wheel drive and even with PSM off is still much more controlled.
I would almost liken it to my old 930 Turbo, but the power delivery is much more linear in the CGT - so that's not fair - the only real parallel is to the response when you go in a bit too heavy and think of lifting - boththe 930 and the CGT will bite you - but in different ways.
Hope that helps (probably not- u need to find a way to drive one - that will seal it one way or the other for you)
If you try to compare it to a modern high performance car or supercar, it does not translate -- for example, the 996 TT is all wheel drive and even with PSM off is still much more controlled.
I would almost liken it to my old 930 Turbo, but the power delivery is much more linear in the CGT - so that's not fair - the only real parallel is to the response when you go in a bit too heavy and think of lifting - boththe 930 and the CGT will bite you - but in different ways.
Hope that helps (probably not- u need to find a way to drive one - that will seal it one way or the other for you)