CGT death spiral has begun.
#77
10-02-2005, 12:18 PM
Senior Member
These are not honda accords, there will never be a liquid market for these cars. Trades will depend on the situations of the buyer and the seller for each particular transaction.
#78
10-02-2005, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by watt
when to buy a great car is when you want it and when you can afford it!!!!! when to sell it is when you want something else..
when to buy a great car is when you want it and when you can afford it!!!!! when to sell it is when you want something else..
That's why there are people that buy a TT for $125k new with $30k premium (like in '01) and others that buy used (5 yrs later) for $75k.
Both are excellent buys based on what one can afford at the time.
#80
10-02-2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Les Quam
I don't know if any of the other four 2005 GT2s are for sale? But I have turned down 215K from a collector in Phoenix for mine. I don't plan on selling it so depreciation is not a factor. IMHO depreciation is only a consideration for a short term ownership experience. In most cases (certain Ferrari's may be the exception) EVERY new car must proceed through a deprication cycle. The CGT being no exception.
When a manufacturer like Porsche which builds about 70,000 cars a year produces 24 2004 GT2s and 5 2005 GT2s the prospective buyers for the GT2 are not generally driving enthusiasts but rather collectors. Their is no reason to pay a premium for an 04 0r 05 GT2 when a driving enthusiast can buy a 2002 or a 2003 GT2 for a substantial discount. The 02 and 03 GT2s are arguably the best performance value on the planet when criteria as build quality and fit and finish are considered.
Therefore I make sure I tell every prospective buyer of my 2004 GT2 that you can feel NO performance gain from the previous years and if your looking for a nice discounted value look for a nice low mile 2002 0r 2003 GT2.
Since the supply of 2004 GT2s is 24 and three have already been to the body shop, my opinion is that the demand is there and a collector or someone looking for a rare car that also performs with 477HP will be happy to pay a premium for the right to own a handbuilt Porsche of which only 24 exist in NA.
A similiar car is the 1997 993 series turbo S. 176 were delivered to NA and they have about 20 HP and some minor visual differences than the standard 993 turbo. I have owned both and again I tell everyone you can't feel or measure the extra HP. All you get with the 97 S is the right to own one of the 176.
This right is important mostly to collectors and not driving enthusiasts IMHO. A driving enthusiast is looking for the most performance value for his money a collector is primarily looking for rarity and exclusivity. IMHO The collector is looking to add a rare car to his or her collection and is concerned with different factors regarding a car then a driving enthusiast. One of 24 GT2s would appeal to a collector and not necessarily a driving enthusiast.
I don't know if any of the other four 2005 GT2s are for sale? But I have turned down 215K from a collector in Phoenix for mine. I don't plan on selling it so depreciation is not a factor. IMHO depreciation is only a consideration for a short term ownership experience. In most cases (certain Ferrari's may be the exception) EVERY new car must proceed through a deprication cycle. The CGT being no exception.
When a manufacturer like Porsche which builds about 70,000 cars a year produces 24 2004 GT2s and 5 2005 GT2s the prospective buyers for the GT2 are not generally driving enthusiasts but rather collectors. Their is no reason to pay a premium for an 04 0r 05 GT2 when a driving enthusiast can buy a 2002 or a 2003 GT2 for a substantial discount. The 02 and 03 GT2s are arguably the best performance value on the planet when criteria as build quality and fit and finish are considered.
Therefore I make sure I tell every prospective buyer of my 2004 GT2 that you can feel NO performance gain from the previous years and if your looking for a nice discounted value look for a nice low mile 2002 0r 2003 GT2.
Since the supply of 2004 GT2s is 24 and three have already been to the body shop, my opinion is that the demand is there and a collector or someone looking for a rare car that also performs with 477HP will be happy to pay a premium for the right to own a handbuilt Porsche of which only 24 exist in NA.
A similiar car is the 1997 993 series turbo S. 176 were delivered to NA and they have about 20 HP and some minor visual differences than the standard 993 turbo. I have owned both and again I tell everyone you can't feel or measure the extra HP. All you get with the 97 S is the right to own one of the 176.
This right is important mostly to collectors and not driving enthusiasts IMHO. A driving enthusiast is looking for the most performance value for his money a collector is primarily looking for rarity and exclusivity. IMHO The collector is looking to add a rare car to his or her collection and is concerned with different factors regarding a car then a driving enthusiast. One of 24 GT2s would appeal to a collector and not necessarily a driving enthusiast.
Yup is SOOOO true ! Way to tell em !
Rock on GT2 and CGT everything else is just a car.
BBGT2
#81
10-02-2005, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Salespunk
Has anyone looked at the used market for 959's over time? It seems that this would be a more direct comparison than the F40 since it was the last "exotic" that Porsche produced.
Has anyone looked at the used market for 959's over time? It seems that this would be a more direct comparison than the F40 since it was the last "exotic" that Porsche produced.
1. The 959 was concieved as a road-car that became a test-bed for advancements that eventually found their way into production 911s (most notably the 964). That is, it is a street-car through and through. Contrasting this with the Carrera GT which is basically a racecar for the street born out of an aborted Le Mans prototype project and the parts and development left over from said project.
2. 959 production was kept to just below 300 units worldwide. We know now that Carrera GT production is to be completed at just over 4 times that amount.
So what does this mean? Well, in the 959 you have a car that appeals to a much broader audience. It isn't the focused tool that the Carrera GT is, I'd guess much more people find the 959 likable and driveable than the Carrera GT. Couple this with the fact that there is 1/4 the amount of 959s out there than Carrera GTs, the way I see it, the market is and will remain much stronger for the 959 than the Carrera GT as both age. It is interesting to note that it appears as though there will be proportionally much more damaged Carrera GTs out there than 959s, this I believe will play a key role in the strength of the market for the clean/unmolested ones.
Just my humbe observation of course, only time will tell what really happens. If I had to choose one or the other I'd probably spring for the Carrera GT. Hopefully some day I can be like Dean and own both
Last edited by ZAMIRZ; 10-02-2005 at 05:44 PM.
#82
10-04-2005, 10:33 PM
I couldn't agree with techart 996 #3 more. His comments are on point. I had my CGT for ~ 5 months, 2300 miles and loved every minute of it. Took a hit on resale/trade in, but was not annoyed at all. I walk away with a '05 997 Cab S, and a lifetime of memories re the CGT.
Gotta live.
Gotta live.
