WoW now that is hot.

 

Minor pet peeve - one c and a capital L in "McLaren".

As for an answer to your question, there were essentially six different variations of F1s. The breakdown goes like this - F1 road cars, '95-spec F1 GTRs, F1 LMs, '96-spec F1 GTRs, F1 GT longtail road car, '97-spec F1 GTR longtail. Here's a photo showing those 6 variants. Center is the '95 GTR, front left is the '96-spec car, and the '97 longtail is top right.


Clickable for hires

All F1s use the same basic BMW Motorsport developed V12 engine, but with minor differences. The standard engine is the road car's 6.1L (6064cc), which puts out 627-hp and 480 lb-ft of torque. This engine was originally fitted to every F1 road car, and the F1 GT long tail road cars.

The GTRs had engines of varying states of tune based on year and sanctioning body and the exact specs aren't totally clear. (I will quote what McLaren has provided as the specs from an excellent book titled "Driving Ambition: The Official Inside Story of the McLaren F1".) The GTR engine fitted to the '95 and '96 cars actually puts out slightly less power at an even 600hp, but more torque at 527 lb-ft. The lower horsepower figure was due to air inlet restrictors they were forced to run to help even the field of competitors. In 1996 the GTR engines were made just a bit lighter and sat lower in the chassis that that of the road cars. There may have been slight variations in the tuning, but power figures listed are the same.

The '97-spec GTRs actually have an engine with a slightly reduced displacement (5990cc), and while further tuning allowed the engine to maintain it's 600hp figure, torque was reduced slightly to 507 lb-ft. This engine was again lighter than the ones that had come before, as was the car it was going into.

The LMs actually offered the highest specific output engine, which was essentially a '95-spec GTR V12 without the air inlet restrictors. It puts out 668hp-680hp (different sources) and ~519 lb-ft of torque. From an interior perspective, LM's have a bare-bones interior with lots of exposed carbon fiber and just limited upholstery on the seats. The 5 customer LMs were built to celebrate the 5 F1 GTRs that finished the 1995 LeMans race in 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 13th places. It was the most successful result for a manufacturer on their first trip to LeMans in the history of the race.

The '95-spec GTRs were a rather crude conversion, done with limited time and on a limited budget as McLaren initially had no plans to develop the F1 into a racing car. In fact Gordon Murray had told the partners on the project from the start that if he was developing the F1 as a road car that there would be certain compromises made that would hamper it's abilities on the race track. In the end, some very eager and forceful customers won the battle to get McLaren to build them GTRs by essentially threatening to do it on their own if McLaren wasn't willing to participate. To create the earliest GTRs, all the non-essential items were stripped from the car and a large rear wing and front splitter were fitted after just a day's worth of testing in the wind tunnel. It wasn't until mid-1995 when a McLaren F1 captured the top price at the 24Hrs of LeMans that McLaren really began to take the GTR-program seriously. The GTR's that were built for 1996 were essentially the same on the outside, but had much more thought put into making them competitive with specialized components under the skin and a more well developed aero package.

In 1997 things really got serious with more factory involvement from BMW. McLaren set out to build the ultimate F1 based racer and Gordon came up with the longtail body design. In order to run the car they had to produce an identical road going variant (homologation rules were still the norm in GT1 class) which they did with the introduction of the F1 GT longtail road cars - only 3 were built.

Surprisingly, though the longtail GTR is much larger, they were the lightest of all GTRs - 1050kg - '95, 1012kg = '96, and 915kg = '97. The longer bodywork produced more downforce with less drag and Gordon was even conviced at that point they had made an honest race car out of the F1. McLaren came very close to a repeat win at LeMans that year, finishing first in the GT1 class and second overall to a Porsche-powered Prototype. They also took the FIA GT Championship down to the last race of the season that year, battling with the newer MBZ CLK-GTRs that had been designed as a racer from the outset which was not truly within the spirit of the rules.

Of course as time has passed a few more variations on the F1 theme have appeared, mostly due to factory refits for new customers. We now have F1 road cars that have been fitted with the High Downforce Package giving the the look of a short tailed GTR or LM, while still having the road car's engine and interior treatments. There are at least two road cars that have had an LM-spec engine fitted along with that High Downforce bodywork - one being chassis #073 which is here in the USA owned by Don Wallace of Tampa, FL. (That's the car that ExtinctM3 posted photos of at the end of the last page.) I believe the other F1 matching that description is chassis #018 which was recently spotted in Singapore.

There are also road-legal F1 GTRs now. Since their useful life as a racing car is over, some owners have had the factory or an outside company convert their GTRs so they are more suitable for road use. GTRs only have one passenger seat located to the left of the driver, as the other side is full of electronics and other equipment. The other downside to a GTR is that they have a full safety cage fitted making entry and exit slightly more difficult. Many of these road legal GTRs have been repainted in the traditional Papaya Orange color that had been reserved for the F1 LMs which serves to confuse a lot of people. Luckily there are enough unique exterior details on the real LMs to still separate them from these "imposters".

If you'd like to expand your reading a bit on some of this info I'd suggest checking out the McLaren F1 Model Guide found on QV500.com. Here's the link - most of the info they have is accurate, though some of the photo captions are incorrect as I recall:

http://www.qv500.com/indexmclaren.php

If that info sparks anymore questions, don't hesitate to ask.

>8^)
ER

 

That is of course one of Ralph Lauren's F1 road cars. That one is chassis #055, but he also owns chassis #074 (2nd to the last road car chassis number) as well as the previously mentioned F1 LM (LM3).

It might be hard to spot from your photos, but #055 has the rare high mounted mirror option, created using a set of mirrors from the BMW Z1 road car. There are supposedly just five F1s that have this option which cost somwhere between $25,000 and $50,000. Even the lower amount is somewhat shocking, but the option required special doors that had been strengthened in the A-pillar area to support the weight of the mirrors and added stress from the wind at high speed. A well informed source claims that three cars had these mirrors fitted from the factory and the other two cars had them added on refits. I'm not sure which category Lauren's car falls under, but heard rumor that he bought a second set of doors so his may not be original. the earliest chassis number I've been able to confirm with the option is #040. The only other that is known is chassis #071 which was an original fitment as it's entire build process is photo-documented in the book "Driving Ambition".

>8^)
ER

 

Peloton, You amaze me! Thanks alot for this information!!!!

 

WOW you are good! I went to Boston for the day to see his collection at the art museum. Here are a few more of his very rare cars. Sorry for the junk photos it was with my phone.

 

The red one that was just posted is amazing. So would that be a '96 LM?

 

Sure thing and I'll give it my best. I'm not afraid to say that I don't know, and often clarify when an answer is based on rumor or speculation.

1) Do you know if this Mr. Tsuzuki still has LM2?

Last time photos of his museum appeared he still had both LM2 and #053. It's hard getting updates out of Japan, so that's really all we have to go on.

2) How do you know that LM1, LM4 & LM5 are in the Sultan's collection? Were pictures of it ever released? I am positively sure the answer to that is a resounding no.

Well I'm certain that's where the three ended up originally and none of them have been spotted elsewhere. Contrary to popular belief (and certain McLaren press materials) LM1 and LM4 were not painted Papaya Orange, but were instead finished in "Black + Graphics". This was a contentious issue among F1 fans for quite sometime, especially since there was so much conflicting information on it, but a great source of F1 history tipped me off to an artist's website named Maurizio Corbi who had worked for Pininfarina and had access to the cars in Brunei. By some amount of chance/luck/whatever, he had chosen to sketch one of the two Black LMs while he was over there and published this image on his website. It was later confirmed by several other sources to be an accurate representation of what the Brunei Royal Family's Black LMs look like. Unfortunately it's not a photograph, but is all we have to go on for now.


Clickable...

3) How many F1 GTR Longtail's were built? Any idea of their locations or owners?

There were a total of 10 longtail GTRs built - Chassis' #19R through #28R. Most of them are MIA, but I believe there are two (maybe 3) are in the USA now. The one everyone is familiar with is #19R which I think is owned by a man named Kevin Crowder. He purchased the car through Symbolic Motorcars in LaJolla who still service and prep the car for him in their restoration shop from time to time. It currently wears the LARK livery. There may also be a FINA longtail here but I am not certain of the chassis number, and finally #21R might be hidden away in someone's private collection after last racing in the British GT series in 1998.

There's one Gulf-liveried longtail that has been spotted a few times in Japan and another that I mentioned was displayed at the factory. BMW own one of the FINA GTRs and keep it in their Mobile Tradition Museum in Germany (along with GTR #18R and a silver road car - #047). They bring the GTRs out to places like the Goodwood Festival of Speed from time to time and the longtail recently made an appearance with some other BMW Motorsport legends at an event that coincided with the Malaysian Grand Prix.

There are two other longtails that have been for sale in England within the past year, and a third FINA GTR (#23R) was for sale in Germany a while ago as well, but that could be the car I think is in the USA now. It's really very hard to keep track of the GTRs that don't have much use beyond a private track day.

4) Also any info on the F1 in the pic I attached below?

I got the pic from this thread.....

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...t=32723&page=3

User 03-turbo911 said as follows....

Wow - a picture I have never seen before. That doesn't happen too often acutally.

The description is accurate based on what I know. This is one of the short tailed F1 GTRs that has been refitted to appear identical to an LM. That is chassis #08R, effectively the last of the '95-spec GTRs as #09R was built into a replica of the '95 LeMans winner for the Brunei Royal Family and has likely never turned a wheel in anger. Chassis #08R was a replacement for the 1995 Gulf team after a bad crash at Monza rendered one of their cars (#04R) unusable. After the 1995 season McLaren used the car for a promotional event they ran through eastern Europe called the Adrenaline Program. At the time the car was painted in the traditional WEST graphics similar to the Formula One cars. Here's two hi-res photo showing it wearing that livery:



No problem - I enjoy educating and you've had some great questions so far. Thanks again for that picture of the Bahrain GTR. I have a few more shots of it in Bahrain if you are interested.

>8^)
ER

 

The amazing red car is actually metallic orange - quite similar in color to the car that started this thread actually. It's not an LM, though often when it's displayed it carries a sign that refers to it as an LM.

This is actually a road car - chassis #073 - that has been fitted with the High Downforce Package and has several other unique touches that make it a very special F1. It's one of the two that I mentioned which have an LM-spec engine fitted - this one was quoted as making 691hp though there was a report that came out of McLaren that this engine has different cams than the true LM lump. Not sure whether that matters as long as the power is there.

This car was the second to the last F1s built in 1998 before production ceased, and was originally painted AMG Green Velvet according to the chassis history details. It did not have the added touches that make it so special when it was first assembled. Those were all added on a refit for a very special McLaren customer in 2000. Essentially they rebuilt the car from scratch with the idea of creating the ultimate variation of the McLaren F1.

"McLaren's most experienced test driver commented that this car (#073) was 'the ultimate F1 variant, having the best combination of performance, stability, grip and handling, whilst still being practical for road use'"

I mentioned that there was another car believed to be identical as far as specs go. That would be chassis #018, seen here in the McLaren Cars factory following it's refit in the first two shots (likely LM3 in the background based on the timing of the photo) and in a showroom in Singapore in the last shot.







I haven't confirmed that #018 is the other F1 with the LM-spec engine like #073, but these are the only two standard road cars that have louvers/vents fitted over the front wheels - something that was referred to as the "Extra High Downforce Package" when #073 was sold. It stands to reason that these were added to help cope with the additional performance offered by an engine that makes roughly 10% more power.

To give you guys a better idea of what McLaren is willing to do in regards to these transformations, here's a shot of #018 showing it's original look which was taken in 1995 in Japan when Mr Tsuzuki owned the car.



Quite a difference, and it's one of the things that makes keeping track of the cars so difficult at times.

>8^)
ER

 

More F1 101 questions? What kind of racing history does McLaren F1 have over the years. And how did McLaren change from associating w/ BMW to Mercedes.

 

Like being called Gordon Murray is a bad thing

 

If you are talking about their racing history beyond what the F1 GTRs achieved, that's kind of outside my scope. I'm more of a Tifosi when it comes to Formula One and haven't done a lot of research on anything specific to McLaren in that regard, nor am I well versed in their successes in other previous racing series. Of course there would not be a McLaren today, or at least one of the size and reputation they currently have, without a great past behind them. I'm just not the best guy to tell that story in any great detail.

I could lay out the racing victories of the 28 F1 GTRs, but that would take quite a while. If you check out that QV500.com link it lists most of the racing history of the early GTRs and quite a bit on the longtails including the series, race, drivers, and finishing positions. If you have specific questions I'd be happy to help answer those.

Prior to the F1 project I don't think there had ever been a direct association with BMW and McLaren. Gordon Murray came from the Brabham Formula One team prior to being recruited away by McLaren sometime during or after the 1986 season. Brabham had been very successful using BMW engines and it was this relationship that Gordon exploited when he needed a powerful normally aspirated engine to power the F1. At the time I recall McLaren's own Formula One team was using Honda power which had been another contender to build the F1's engine, but Honda was only interested in building a smaller displacement engine (roughly 3.5L) not the 5.5L or larger engine that Murray knew he would need to reach the F1's performance targets and tractable road use. The BMW engine will pull from very low RPMs in 6th gear all the way to redline, can be driven all day in 3rd or 4th gear, and one owner claimed that you can go through all six gears without ever touching the accelerator.

In 1994, coincidentally the same year that full F1 production began, McLaren's Formula One team announced the switch to Mercedes Benz power (for the 1995 season) with engines that are built by Ilmor Engineering in England. The combination became successful finally in 1997 with Mika Hakkinen bring McLaren their first F1 win in 3 years. By 1998 Adrian Newey had come aboard to develop a new McLaren chassis and in the first race of the season Hakkinen's McLaren lapped the entire field to take the win. Mika would go on to take the Driver's Championship that year with McLaren also bringing home the Constructor's Championship as well.

By 1998 production of the F1 was winding down and McLaren and Mercedes had built a closer working relationship making it somewhat innapropriate for their road car to be powered by what was essentially Mercedes arch-rival company. In 1999 the SLR project was started enlisting the talents of Gordon Murray. While Gordon's plans held something a little closer to the F1 in the cards, Mercedes showed a concept called the Vision SLR at the Frankfurt Motorshow and it was met with great demand. Suddenly Gordon's plans were tossed and he began the process of adapting the design of the SLR to actual components that would give credibility to the McLaren name on the side of the car. Ultimately the SLR development process with it's many levels of management and oversight within Mercedes drove Gordon to quit McLaren Cars - stating it was no longer the company he had started back in 1988 to create the F1, and the process there was no longer fun for him.

The McLaren/Mercedes combo seem to be ramping up to build another exotic soon (Gallardo/F430 competitor) and it will be a shame to see Gordon not directly involved in that project.

>8^)
ER

 

Ok maybe not for me, but he might find it insulting.

I guess I will share this photo here too - this is Peloton25 and Gordon Murray taken last June. This proves we are not the same person.



I got to chat with him for over an hour about the F1 that day and shared my knowledge as well as my image archive with him. Not to be boastful, but he seemed rather impressed, (maybe a little scared too ), but definitely impressed.

>8^)
ER

 

Peloton, when you reach heaven may god have an F1 waiting with two virgins in the passager seats. You are seriously dehydrated for the thurst of knowledge when it comes to this car. I admire such dedication! Impressive!

 

cool erik!
pic with "the man" himself!
he's actually starting to look his age!

 

Looks like it sold....1.6 M

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other...42981736QQrdZ1